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MASK not working

PostPosted: Sun Nov 15, 2015 6:27 am
by Parentesi
Hi
I can try as hard as I want to the Mask tool is not doing anything!
I have stacks of three images, and I can use the Mask Red for the whole stack or on each layer the normal Mask tool.
I cover the whole area until there is almost nothing visible anymore then theses Mask-Points. Still no result when rendering... also in the preview, always no effect.

i also try to ad Green mask-points to keep the other part.. still no effect. See screenshots.

And yes, I apply the changes.

What is this, why is it not working?

thank you,

Roberto

Re: MASK not working

PostPosted: Sun Nov 15, 2015 7:28 am
by Parentesi
Sadly, also the workaround with using Alpha channels in Ps is not working wither. It takes it as pure white and blends it as white too. In the preview and in the result. Also the Mark-Points do not have any effect on the white areas.

Re: MASK not working

PostPosted: Sun Nov 15, 2015 5:47 pm
by klausesser2
As i see it you´re using MUCH too much markers. It´s obvious you need plenty of overlap for masking!
You need free background for masking out the foreground - otherwise there´s nothing to fill into the masked foreground.

Could you make your shots downloadable for giving them a try?

Klaus

Re: MASK not working

PostPosted: Sun Nov 15, 2015 6:39 pm
by Parentesi
I also tried with few markers... no effect. It always looks exactly the same when rendert. 100% the same.
If you look in the first post at the upper images, you see the overlaping, so the area that I want is there two times.
Here straight from screen-captures. In PTGui this would be no problem at all, just make a mask, done.
The Markers seem not to be able to detect the light from the car, or they just do not work at all.
Are there specifically not working under some conditions? Like when creating a 360x180 spherical Dome?

Re: MASK not working

PostPosted: Sun Nov 15, 2015 7:28 pm
by klausesser2
Parentesi wrote:Are there specifically not working under some conditions? Like when creating a 360x180 spherical Dome?



No. Make the files downloadable - impossibl to judge the issue otherwise.

Klaus

Re: MASK not working

PostPosted: Sun Nov 15, 2015 9:03 pm
by Parentesi
Files are uploading, will post a link.

this here also does not work (why post his when it does not work anymore?):
http://www.kolor.com/wiki-en/action/vie ... y_painting
Does not matter if I create a real alpha Channel or I make a mask on the images. Tried both versions:
Mask on image, area is white and blends in white
Alpha Channel: No effect, as if there is no alpha channel.

Re: MASK not working

PostPosted: Sun Nov 15, 2015 10:29 pm
by Parentesi
DOWNLOAD:
https://www.wetransfer.com/downloads/1d ... 703/ff8a65

It contains only the two stacks that have the light in I want to have removed.
Also a autopanno save-file with my setup.
I export three layers as tiff 16Bitt, as autopanno HDR files are really bad in quality. So I afterwards process that in PTGUI Pro.
Also the combined HFR from PTGui is there, where you see the light of the car in the final HDR

Re: MASK not working

PostPosted: Mon Nov 16, 2015 1:41 pm
by Panoram1x
Z10[_DSC3723_Crop.jpg


I have hidden each time all layers except one and then I placed the green markers in the image in which the trails of the cars lights do not appear. I repeated this process for all layers being attentive the same color of the traffic lights in the three layers.
Another way would be to use the markers "On whole stack", but my way gives me more control.

Anyway I think the best result I achieved merging previously the stacks in Photomatix or better in SNS-HDR that gives a more natural result and in both cases without manual intervention.


Z10-6 [_DSC3723].pano
(1004.06 KiB) Downloaded 158 times

Re: MASK not working

PostPosted: Mon Nov 16, 2015 7:09 pm
by Parentesi
Well, I need all layers exact at the same position. And I used the tool "On whole Stack" as with no result.
If you use only one layer, this one I see here, then there was no trail of light in it. So of course it then would work, as there was no light. Also you see the orange light on top coming through. also does not work.

If I merge the stacks before, then it is going to be a huge time-consuming job to get that worked. Will not work with my workflow. I usually use PTGui as Masking is very easy, quick and works 100%. You see results imminent.
But not all photographers always set the Nodal 100% each time they photograph. So Autopano corrects this very good to have no misalignment, where PTGui then has errors.

I still have to export all three brackets seperatly to get the same good result then in PTGui, as Autopano can not render high quality HDR-Files. It makes funny stuff then. Not really useable.
But I am fine with this workflow, as PTGui then does a fast job with the three 16bit Tiff files I generate in Autopano.
Just the Masking sucks. I cant get it work, and I actually do not understand what you claim you have done different then I have. As whatever I tried, result is "zero"

Why does Masking or Alpha-Chanel in PS do not work either? They have a tutorial online on how it works... but it does not work. Was that on an older Version?

Re: MASK not working

PostPosted: Tue Nov 17, 2015 3:42 pm
by Panoram1x
In the HDR panoramic images we can find two types of ghosts: those occurring within a stack and those that appearing between adjacent images.
Within APG there is no way to resolve differences between images in a stack when moving objects. Autopano has no function dedicated to that.
Another problem is that the cut lines for sewing adjacent images are calculated independently for each layer and there is no chance of forcing Autopano use the same cut for all, this makes it impossible to get identical layers.
The system of transparencies in Photoshop does not work, this is only usable between adjacent images.
So movements within a stack must be resolved before go to APG
Fortunately Photomatix working in batch mode does very well the fusion of the stacks even if there are some movements or images need to be aligned if you shoot handheld.
Then using the images merged in Photomatix as there is only one layer of anti ghost APG can work wonders (automatically or by masks) correcting discrepancies in the overlapping area between adjacent images.
Is it right to try to simplify the workflow as possible ... but working with the possibilities of each software to try to get the maximum final quality.
To my knowledge there is currently no software to resolve the two types of ghosts ...

Re: MASK not working

PostPosted: Tue Nov 17, 2015 5:43 pm
by Parentesi
PTGUi definitely does exact that:
1. I can use masks on grouped Bracket shots, so I use a mask on one of them and it applies to all.
2. I can also use masks on single images of stat bracket-set and it still renders smothly with the other bracket-sets behind it. So I can even go to one bracket-set, use mask on the first and third layer, and then go to the bracket-set where areas overlap, and then use there the mask on the second layer. Works superb and no visible lines or whatsoever visible.
This all works easy and fast.
The only reason why I needed to use Autopano, is to get images aligned from a bigger shoot, wer the Pano-Head was not set perfect and PTGU could not manage to align the images without misalignments, where Autopano still does a very good job.

Re: MASK not working

PostPosted: Wed Nov 18, 2015 12:05 am
by klausesser2
Parentesi wrote:PTGUi definitely does exact that:
1. I can use masks on grouped Bracket shots, so I use a mask on one of them and it applies to all.
2. I can also use masks on single images of stat bracket-set and it still renders smothly with the other bracket-sets behind it. So I can even go to one bracket-set, use mask on the first and third layer, and then go to the bracket-set where areas overlap, and then use there the mask on the second layer. Works superb and no visible lines or whatsoever visible.
This all works easy and fast.
The only reason why I needed to use Autopano, is to get images aligned from a bigger shoot, wer the Pano-Head was not set perfect and PTGU could not manage to align the images without misalignments, where Autopano still does a very good job.



I really cannot see your issue. Process the bracketes images first in Photomatix by using it´s very fine anti-ghosting features for ghosts betweet brackets.
Then stitch the processed shots in APG and use the masks for deleting ghosts caised by stitching.

(i don´t have the time to download 2 GB just for testing your issue, sorry).

Klaus

Re: MASK not working

PostPosted: Wed Nov 18, 2015 8:51 am
by marzipano
Like Klaus I didn't download your samples as the files were very large but I did try out a test on my own bracketed images and everything worked OK

I found you need to do the following to get the anti-ghosting and HDR to work together

1. Make sure Exposure Fusion is enabled in the edit and that this option is selected in the render as well
2. Use the masking tool with markers set to whole image and NOT whole stack
3. Select the image(s) to mark using the tick select boxes on the layers editor to highlight one at a time
4. Make sure the default regroup in the parameter settings tab is set to the correct grouping (bracket or stack) as required

These are the two HDR images I got by using no masking and then using selective masking on the -2 and +2 images on my set of 3 (-2, 0, +2) taken in moving traffic last week (bottom one is without masking)

I use APG 4.2

Like Klaus again I use Photomatix 5 not APG for fusion as the alignment and anti-ghosting facilities are far better

best Martin

masking -2 and +2.jpg


no masking.jpg