Bug or what ?  

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leifs
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Bug or what ?

by leifs » Tue Jun 10, 2014 10:05 pm

This is sphere shot with a "normal lens", 92 images.
In the blue sky there is a anomaly in the rendered image, and I'm not sure why.
I report it here to see if there is a explanation/fix. Otherwise I will concider it a bug.
See image below.

leifs
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Destiny
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Re: Bug or what ?

by Destiny » Wed Jun 11, 2014 4:28 am

It might well be a bug... I get a divit in my zenith using a fisheye, which I have reported to Kolor and was told it was a bug.... Somtimes easy to fix but sometimes not, depending on the feature effected....

Destiny...

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Re: Bug or what ?

by klausesser » Wed Jun 11, 2014 3:50 pm

leifs wrote:This is sphere shot with a "normal lens", 92 images.
In the blue sky there is a anomaly in the rendered image, and I'm not sure why.
I report it here to see if there is a explanation/fix. Otherwise I will concider it a bug.
See image below.

leifs



To me your issue looks rather like a misalignment on the zenith - which produces multiple "zeniths" on different positions.

Can you post an "up" cubeface?

I suggest checking all the settings in APG regarding the workspace.

Klaus
Last edited by klausesser on Wed Jun 11, 2014 3:53 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Bug or what ?

by klausesser » Wed Jun 11, 2014 3:52 pm

Destiny wrote:It might well be a bug... I get a divit in my zenith using a fisheye, which I have reported to Kolor and was told it was a bug.... Somtimes easy to fix but sometimes not, depending on the feature effected....

Destiny...



"Bug"? I doubt. Did 20 fisheye panos last week with much open skies. No "bug" at all - everything´s perfect.
(Canon 5D2, Canon 15mm fisheye).

Klaus

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Re: Bug or what ?

by leifs » Wed Jun 11, 2014 4:57 pm

I can't see any relevance in comparing a sphere shot with fishey with a 92 image sphere shot with a "normal lens".
The up-face is shown below. I can see no multiple zeniths.

I've closed the case, doing what has been told here several times:
two renders, on for the ground and one for the sky, and swapping the sky.
Antighost for the ground and diamond cutting for the sky.

I'm still disappointed that this is neccesary.
Editing PSB-files 5GB large is timeconsuming.

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Re: Bug or what ?

by klausesser » Wed Jun 11, 2014 8:02 pm

leifs wrote:I can't see any relevance in comparing a sphere shot with fishey with a 92 image sphere shot with a "normal lens".
The up-face is shown below. I can see no multiple zeniths.


And what do you think the up-face shows and where the "objects" come from? Aliens? Heavenly creatures? ;) :cool:

I had this effect some time ago - a Zenith-issue caused by mis-positioned images - it´s where the sphere is closed
on the top.
It was caused by a mis-alignment when i shot the sphere. I forgot to tighten a screw and so the rail moved a little bit when the
camera approached +90° for doing the Zenith-shots.

I retouched it in PS - and from then on always take care for fastening ALL screws before starting the shoot =D

You can encounter the same effect on the bottom when you sphere isn´t properly closed there.

leifs wrote:I'm still disappointed that this is neccesary.
Editing PSB-files 5GB large is timeconsuming.


Check your APG-workspace. The "objects" tell that several Zenith-pictures seem to be misaligned.
Whether in the shooting or in the stitcher ´s aligning needs to be found out.

I do not believe it´s "a bug", to be honest.

Klaus

P.S.: did you rtouch in the cubefaces? Also can be a retouching-issue when you retouched over
the border of adjacent images.

PS2: there´s clearly visible a Zenith-point in the center of the cube-face. This must not happen.

PS3: so i guess (!) it rather might be a retouching issue crossing the borders of adjacent images.
IF you retouched at all!?

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Re: Bug or what ?

by leifs » Wed Jun 11, 2014 8:15 pm

I don't care where the "object" comes from. It was not in the sky at the time of shooting, it was not in my recorded images.
It is in the rendered pano, rendered with the antighost option. It should not been there.

Have a look at this post: viewtopic.php?p=114417#p114417
It's a year ago and it look like nothing has changed.

leifs

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Re: Bug or what ?

by klausesser » Wed Jun 11, 2014 8:48 pm

leifs wrote:I don't care where the "object" comes from. It was not in the sky at the time of shooting, it was not in my recorded images.
It is in the rendered pano, rendered with the antighost option. It should not been there.

Have a look at this post: viewtopic.php?p=114417#p114417
It's a year ago and it look like nothing has changed.

leifs



Aha.

Klaus

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Re: Bug or what ?

by gkaefer » Wed Jun 11, 2014 8:58 pm

leifs wrote:It's a year ago and it look like nothing has changed.
leifs


hmm - sorry for sarcastic nonconstructive note...

which Version Software do you use now? "(...) a year ago and (...) nothing has changed." the same Version as one year ago?
Georg

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Re: Bug or what ?

by Destiny » Wed Jun 11, 2014 9:47 pm

It is a bug as confirmed by Alexandre Jenny. But hey, what's he know compared with you, the professional.. After all, he is just the CEO of Kolor.. :rolleyes:

Destin....

klausesser wrote:
Destiny wrote:It might well be a bug... I get a divit in my zenith using a fisheye, which I have reported to Kolor and was told it was a bug.... Somtimes easy to fix but sometimes not, depending on the feature effected....

Destiny...



"Bug"? I doubt. Did 20 fisheye panos last week with much open skies. No "bug" at all - everything´s perfect.
(Canon 5D2, Canon 15mm fisheye).

Klaus

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Re: Bug or what ?

by leifs » Wed Jun 11, 2014 9:53 pm

I did not mean to be sarcastic. This pano is done in APG 3.5.1, which I believe is the last stable.

The fact is that I had to do like a year ago, render the ground with ghost and the sky with diamond cutting and swap the sky. Just like a year ago.

Nothing has changed is perhaps not precise. Tground/sky rendering problem seems to be the same. In this regard it seems like nothing has changed.

leifs
Last edited by leifs on Wed Jun 11, 2014 9:56 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Bug or what ?

by mediavets » Wed Jun 11, 2014 9:56 pm

leifs wrote:I did not mean to be sarcastic. This pano is done in PTP 2.1.2, which I believe is the last stable.

The fact is that I had to do like a year ago, render the ground with ghost and the sky with diamond cutting and swap the sky. Just like a year ago.

Nothing has changed is perhaps not precise. We are now running 2.1.2 instead og 1.8. But the ground/sky rendering problem seems to be the same. In this regard it seems like nothing has changed.

leifs

Are we not talking about APG rather than PTP?

The latest version of APG is 3.6 RC1 released June 5:

http://www.kolor.com/blog-en/2014/06/05 ... a-3-6-rc1/

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Re: Bug or what ?

by leifs » Wed Jun 11, 2014 9:58 pm

Sorry. It should be APG 3.5.1.
Parallell processing isn't easy.

leifs

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Re: Bug or what ?

by klausesser » Wed Jun 11, 2014 10:39 pm

Destiny wrote:After all, he is just the CEO of Kolor.. :rolleyes:



Yes Destiny. I know Alexandre. In person.

Klaus

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Re: Bug or what ?

by klausesser » Wed Jun 11, 2014 10:54 pm

leifs wrote:I don't care where the "object" comes from. It was not in the sky at the time of shooting, it was not in my recorded images.
It is in the rendered pano, rendered with the antighost option. It should not been there.

Have a look at this post: viewtopic.php?p=114417#p114417
It's a year ago and it look like nothing has changed.

leifs


I reacted on your first screenshots first. There the issue isn´t clearly recognizable.
That´s why i asked for the up-face.

Seeing the up-face two things are obvious:

1) the Zenith "point" which occurs when you don´t have PRECISELY 360x180° resp. 2:1 - even one or two pixels "beneath" the correct values causes exactly this visible point.

2) sharp borders on the "problem zone". This happens when adjacent images either

a) do not really match
or
b) are treated with retouching in their border-zones or have images of different density.

That´s why i repeat my question from some hours ago: did you do ANY retouching in the cubefaces or somewhere else?

Fact is: the issue comes from a reason. This reason most unlikely is in the blending - because it would not only be concentratd
in THIS tiny area: asymmetrically close to the Zenith but not IN the Zenith.

Klaus

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Re: Bug or what ?

by leifs » Thu Jun 12, 2014 8:07 am

[quote="klausesser
b) are treated with retouching in their border-zones or have images of different density.
That´s why i repeat my question from some hours ago: did you do ANY retouching in the cubefaces or somewhere else?
[/quote]

I removed myself from the down-face, using content aware fill in PS CS6
I did not edit the images before stitching.
How do you suggest editing the down-face could make the "object" in the up-face ? It's already there as I edit the down-face !!

leifs

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Re: Bug or what ?

by klausesser » Thu Jun 12, 2014 11:58 am

leifs wrote:I removed myself from the down-face, using content aware fill in PS CS6


How - precisely - did you do that?

leifs wrote:How do you suggest editing the down-face could make the "object" in the up-face ? It's already there as I edit the down-face !!


You misunderstood. Editing the down-face can´t affect the up-face directly.

But because you have only 6 faces it might happen that it had some effect on the l,r,b,f-faces.

I said: it MIGHT BE one of the reasons.

Very obviously something happend . . :cool: and i guess (!) it´s not a "bug" in the blender. A "bug" in the blender most unlikely takes place in such a limited area but would occur somewhere else in the stitch. Do you have another area of that kind somewhere else?

Again i ask you: did you check your workspace size and form in APG? Does it have EXACTLY 360x180°? The Zenith-point indicates there is a fault. This point must not be visible. This fault might be causing follower-issues.

I had this kind of issue sometimes. In each case i investigated and then realized the issue was on me: i made a mistake which was so small that i realized having made it only after days.

I strongly suggest to do a complete new stitch from scratch on and do NO editing on the images at all - just to see whether the issue appears again.

Check very carefully the worspace - set it manually, do not use ANY automatic settings.

It needs to be "full workspace" or "spherical" - 360x180° precisely . . not a single pixel beneath this value. Let the Nadir aside for this run, let the Nadir-hole open.

Klaus

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Re: Bug or what ?

by AlexandreJ » Thu Jun 12, 2014 1:43 pm

A lot has been said in this thread and I just want to stay focused on the initial post.
It seem here that we have the anti-ghost system doing some strange blending in the sky. It should not go that dark.

We had that behavior once. Let me explains the context.
In this panorama, there was one area where two images were overlapping each other in a really large and thin zone ( perhaps 3pixels by 500 pixels in height ). This configuration is complicated to handle for the antighost and the seam for choosing between the 2 images is really narrow. It did cause the result you had.

1. We are definitively interested into that project as we were never able to reproduce it since.
2. With image mode, you'll find that zone quite easily. Moving around one of the image to get a bigger overlapping zone should fix this issue.
3. Normally, ISO cutting should not have this behavior as it isn't based on content, but I would like to see that ( jump to 1 again :) )

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Re: Bug or what ?

by a a gruntpuddock » Thu Jun 12, 2014 2:55 pm

Looks like there may be too many shots in that middle row, have you tried removing some?

If you have not already done so, can you post links to the original shots so others can try stitching them.

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Re: Bug or what ?

by klausesser » Thu Jun 12, 2014 3:12 pm

AlexandreJ wrote:A lot has been said in this thread and I just want to stay focused on the initial post.
It seem here that we have the anti-ghost system doing some strange blending in the sky. It should not go that dark.

We had that behavior once. Let me explains the context.
In this panorama, there was one area where two images were overlapping each other in a really large and thin zone ( perhaps 3pixels by 500 pixels in height ). This configuration is complicated to handle for the antighost and the seam for choosing between the 2 images is really narrow. It did cause the result you had.

1. We are definitively interested into that project as we were never able to reproduce it since.
2. With image mode, you'll find that zone quite easily. Moving around one of the image to get a bigger overlapping zone should fix this issue.
3. Normally, ISO cutting should not have this behavior as it isn't based on content, but I would like to see that ( jump to 1 again :) )



Hi Alex!

All this does not explain the Zenith-"Point" im the very center of the cubeface. This one results from incorrect pixel-ratio as we all know.

Which effect THIS has on blending images on the "top" of the sphere . .

So the question is: what caused THIS strange kind of overlap?

best to you, Klaus

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Re: Bug or what ?

by leifs » Thu Jun 12, 2014 8:45 pm

I have closed this case, I have to move on.

My last move on this one is:
- uploaded a package to Kolor with images (in jpg, not 16bit TIF as I use myself) and the XML from the VRdrive2 (maybe Kolor can use it to improve APG)
- made the pano available to anybody to enjoy at http://www.rundskuer.no/panotour/klubbe ... ltour.html

leifs

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Re: Bug or what ?

by mediavets » Thu Jun 12, 2014 10:03 pm

leifs wrote:- made the pano available to anybody to enjoy at http://www.rundskuer.no/panotour/klubbe ... ltour.html

leifs

Does somebody live in this floating house?:
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Re: Bug or what ?

by klausesser » Thu Jun 12, 2014 10:36 pm

They´re here, they´re here!!! Finaly they found us earthlings!! . . =D :cool:
Aliens.jpg






WHAT a great location you have there!!

best, Klaus

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Re: Bug or what ?

by leifs » Fri Jun 13, 2014 7:45 am

mediavets wrote:
leifs wrote:- made the pano available to anybody to enjoy at http://www.rundskuer.no/panotour/klubbe ... ltour.html

leifs

Does somebody live in this floating house?:


No. It's the administration building, offices etc.

leifs


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