"2 panoramas found" in APG  

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AlanS
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"2 panoramas found" in APG

by AlanS » Thu Jan 30, 2014 3:18 pm

Apologies if this has been covered, I am not yet up on the appropriate lingo and was unsure what to search for.

I shot a spherical pano scene, 60 degrees each shot, 3 rows. When I get APG to process, it always detects two panoramas. This is not what I am expecting; they should all be in one. And if you look at the image below you can see that the ceiling 'pano' is missing from the main 'pano'. Plus, it seems that the main pano is using 12 images where the secondary one is using 5, thus leaving out one image all together (there should be 18).

If anybody can offer some guidance on how to fix this, I would be very appreciative. I have tried increasing detection quality to 'high', control points to maximum, and many of the other options in 'settings'. If I choose 'Force every image to be in one panorama, I end up with a stew.

Is this simply a matter of not having enough overlap?

Image is embedded below, and the camera original shots are available at this link:
http://firstshowinggallery.com/files/giga.zip

Image

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mediavets
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Re: "2 panoramas found" in APG

by mediavets » Thu Jan 30, 2014 3:29 pm

Even before downloading your image set it's apparent that your shooting pattern is far from ideal.

What lens and camera did you use?

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Re: "2 panoramas found" in APG

by mediavets » Thu Jan 30, 2014 3:54 pm

There are insufficient features between the top and middle rows in the overlapping area for APG to detect control points to link those rows.

A different shooting pattern might help, see:

http://www.vrwave.com/panoramic-lens-database/canon/
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1-apg308-newgiga.jpg

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Re: "2 panoramas found" in APG

by mediavets » Thu Jan 30, 2014 6:50 pm

But you can fix this pano.

First Force all images into the pano, using that option in Settings.

Then in the Panorama editor manually set the image positions (pitch and yaw) manually in the layers panel. Pitch for all the top row is 60, and yaw in steps of 60 degrees.

And then use the Control Points Editor to manually create links manually between images in the top row and those in the middle row.

Optimise and render.

...............

It's a good exercise and you'll learn a lot.

And it will remind you to shoot a better pattern next time! ;)
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1-apg308-newgiga-fix.jpg
2-apg308-newgiga-fix.jpg
3-apg308-newgiga-fix.jpg
Last edited by mediavets on Thu Jan 30, 2014 7:07 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: "2 panoramas found" in APG

by mediavets » Thu Jan 30, 2014 7:03 pm

One of the reasons I think you had trouble stitching this pano is that you used aperture priority auto - allowing the shutter speed to vary.

That's not a good idea.

If shooting single exposures (as opposed to bracketed exposures) it is generally recommend to shoot with fully manual settings with a single exposure value - aperture and shutter speed - for all images.

Screenshot 2 in my previous post shows, an example, of how different the images are in terms of exposure in the overlapping area - this is probably the reason that APG was unable to detect control points automatically.
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4-apg308-newgiga-fix.jpg

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AlanS
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Re: "2 panoramas found" in APG

by AlanS » Thu Jan 30, 2014 8:17 pm

Mediavets,

Thank you so much! Wasn't just looking for it to get 'fixed', I'm very happy that you pointed me in the right direction to fix it myself. I'd rather be taught how to fish than to just be given a fish :) I will give that a go.

WRT your questions and observations, I was shooting with a Canon T2i (aka 550d) using a Canon EFS 10-22, Nodal Ninja 4 set to 60 degrees rotation (6 images per row). Yes, I was shooting with aperture priority: relatively new to all of this, and I found with my testing that AP can give a good result (or so I thought). And to add even more variability, I used a bounce flash off the ceiling while in AP for the 'middle' row (shooting straight ahead, not up and down), reason being that this fills and increases light in the room better and therefore reduces the contrast between inside/outside. It's a look that I like, but seems that technologically I may be walking a pretty slim tight rope.

I'd be interested in 'bracketed' workflow. I did try some HDR shots (post processed using Oloneo Photo engine (which I prefer over photomatix et al)) but found things to be very slow and unstable. Very willing to revisit workflow, with the ultimate goal of achieving good indoor/outdoor contrast.

GREAT link to vrwave.com canon lens databse, thanks. Looks like I shot with the minimum pattern for the lens, 6 images per row @ 30 degree pitch up and down (if I'm to read the chart correctly). SO, the recommended is to shoot 4 images (90 degree steps) for -60 and +60 pitch, then 8 images (45 degree) at 0 pitch? That would mean I'd be shooting fewer 'ceiling' images than I shot for this particular project? Seems counterintuitive.

Regards,

Alan

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Re: "2 panoramas found" in APG

by mediavets » Thu Jan 30, 2014 8:43 pm

AlanS wrote:Mediavets,

Thank you so much! Wasn't just looking for it to get 'fixed', I'm very happy that you pointed me in the right direction to fix it myself. I'd rather be taught how to fish than to just be given a fish :) I will give that a go.

Come back if you get stuck. But perhaps consult APG 'documentation' first.

It's well worth learning how to use the CP editor.

WRT your questions and observations, I was shooting with a Canon T2i (aka 550d) using a Canon EFS 10-22, Nodal Ninja 4 set to 60 degrees rotation (6 images per row). Yes, I was shooting with aperture priority: relatively new to all of this, and I found with my testing that AP can give a good result (or so I thought). And to add even more variability, I used a bounce flash off the ceiling while in AP for the 'middle' row (shooting straight ahead, not up and down), reason being that this fills and increases light in the room better and therefore reduces the contrast between inside/outside. It's a look that I like, but seems that technologically I may be walking a pretty slim tight rope.

Yes. Aperture priority - or even full auto - may work some times but I think it caused problems here, and I'd recommend to stick with fixed manual settings including white balance) until you have that nailed. Use of flash is generally deprecated for shooting spherical panos indoors (or out).

Do you shoot RAW?

Don't be downhearted - there's considerable 'art' involved in this 'game', and indoor spherical panos are amongst the most challenging sorts of panos to create. the best way to learn is practice, practice, practice...

You'd find it rather easier using a fisheye lens too.

I'd be interested in 'bracketed' workflow. I did try some HDR shots (post processed using Oloneo Photo engine (which I prefer over photomatix et al)) but found things to be very slow and unstable. Very willing to revisit workflow, with the ultimate goal of achieving good indoor/outdoor contrast.

Shooting with a rectilinear wide angle lens you'll have many more images that if shooting witha fisheye and hence need more computer power to process with any speed.

You really need a 64-bit OS and at least 8GB RAM plus plenty of fast disk. If you have such a setup then APG's buid lt-iin stack processing and expsore fusion can produce reasonable results.

Regarding 'giid indoor/outdoor contrast' that's all down to having sufficient exposure bracketing range to cover the dynamic range of the scene. When shooting spherical panos indoors with bright ambient light outside the d=dynamic range typically exceeds that covered by the AEB capabilities of most DSLRs.

The ultimate exposure bracketing tool is the Promote Control which can provide even the most basic Canon or Nikon DSLR with extensive bracketing capabilities - and other good stuff.

GREAT link to vrwave.com canon lens databse, thanks. Looks like I shot with the minimum pattern for the lens, 6 images per row @ 30 degree pitch up and down (if I'm to read the chart correctly)

Except you shot with +/-60 pitch up and down for top and bottom rows.

SO, the recommended is to shoot 4 images (90 degree steps) for -60 and +60 pitch, then 8 images (45 degree) at 0 pitch? That would mean I'd be shooting fewer 'ceiling' images than I shot for this particular project? Seems counterintuitive.

Regards,

Alan

If you envisage a sphere you will appreciate that you require fewer images per rows as you approach the zenith and nadir to achieve the same degree of overlapping.

Excessive overlapping (more than 30%) can itself cause stitching problems.

If more than one shooting pattern will do the job, pick the one that ensures you will have clearly defined features in the overlapping area so that APG can automatically detect and place control points easily.

If faced with a room with, say, a lot of featureless white walls and ceiling then some have used coloured Post-It notes stuck strategically to provide features for APG, editing them out later from the stitched pano image.

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AlanS
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Re: "2 panoramas found" in APG

by AlanS » Fri Jan 31, 2014 5:21 pm

I will be moving to fisheye. Must find a way to justify it first (shouldn't be too difficult :) Very good advice on shooting patterns, slowly but surely it's starting to make more sense :) Must admit, I've avoided the control point editor, time to dive in and figure it out.

Thanks again for all your help!

Alan


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