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PostPosted: Thu Jan 02, 2014 6:25 pm 
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Greetings Guys,

My camera is a Fuji X-E2, Lens Zeiss ZM Biogon 28mm f/2.8.

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

I shoot fully manually. Exposure, ISO and Focus. 8Bit Tiff's exported from LR 5.3

I'm experiencing banding in the output from my rendered images. See attachment.

Regards,

Niall


Attachments:
File comment: Banding noticeable in sky area
LK3-0927-0948-22.jpg
LK3-0927-0948-22.jpg [ 129.7 KiB | Viewed 402 times ]
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 02, 2014 7:07 pm 
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oreillyfotograf wrote:
Greetings Guys,

My camera is a Fuji X-E2, Lens Zeiss ZM Biogon 28mm f/2.8.

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

I shoot fully manually. Exposure, ISO and Focus. 8Bit Tiff's exported from LR 5.3

I'm experiencing banding in the output from my rendered images. See attachment.

Regards,

Niall


Try rendering as 16bit/TIFF in APG. But the question also is the kind of viewer you use.

Can you be a bit more specific about your system and your workflow in detail?

Klaus


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 02, 2014 10:37 pm 
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Thanks Klaus,

I'll try 16bit, then get back to you.

Regards,

Niall


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 02, 2014 11:15 pm 
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Klaus,

I tried 16bit TIFF - No change.

Workflow:

Everything shot Manually; Aperature, Shutter Speed, ISO and Focus

Import .RAF files into LR 5.3 as .RAF files (No DNG conversion).
Some sharpening and colour correction using X-Rite ColorChecker Passport profiles.
Using the LR Export utility, I export each file for my Pano as 16Bit TIFF (This time, usually 8bit)

Closed LR 5.3
Opened APG 3.0.8, selected all 22 images, then clicked 'Detect/Stop All'
Using AGP Editor, I manually modify 'Roll'
Change Projection to Mercator.
Crop the image
Apply Color Amchor and set it to 'Auto'
Select Fusion and 'Enable' Exposure witghts. I tried rendering without Exposure weights enabled - no change.
Image then rendered, based upon 'Exposure fusion', I also tried 'Anti-ghosting' Output as 16Bit TIFF, with 'remove Alpha channel' selected

Once rendering completes, I open LR import and view the image here, where I see the banding. The banding is the position of each exposure.

REgards,

Niall


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 02, 2014 11:59 pm 
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oreillyfotograf wrote:
Once rendering completes, I open LR import and view the image here, where I see the banding. The banding is the position of each exposure.



I gues your issue probably is named color-management ;)

Do you use any calibration and profile somewhere? Did you view the image in Photoshop and check the color-settings?

How does your LR open and show the images? Maybe there´s additional compression during the import or so.

I´d check ALL settings in LR, APG, the monitor´s and the system´s colorsettings.

It´s not logical that you have this banding. Must be some basic settings!

I suggest first check carefully your Photoshop-colorsettings. Then view the image.

Klaus


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 03, 2014 1:16 am 
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Klaus,

I gues your issue probably is named color-management ;)

** Do you use any calibration and profile somewhere? Did you view the image in Photoshop and check the color-settings?
After images have been imported into LR, I apply a colour profile from Develop > Camera Calibration > Profile. Using a ColorChecker Passport profile reviously create for this camera/Lens combination.

** How does your LR open and show the images? Maybe there´s additional compression during the import or so.
All images are imoprted with ONLY Copyright Metadata applied. Develop Settings set to 'None'

** I´d check ALL settings in LR, APG, the monitor´s and the system´s colorsettings.
I'll try rendering on my iMAC at home and see if I get the banding. I suspect I will as I use similar settings between both machines.

** It´s not logical that you have this banding. Must be some basic settings!
The banding relates to the rendering of individusl frames and is different in each Pano

** I suggest first check carefully your Photoshop-colorsettings. Then view the image.
I'm not using Photoshop anywhere in my workflow!!

Regards,

Niall


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 03, 2014 12:59 pm 
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Hi Niall
First check your input images for vignetting.
If you shoot a 28mm with an almost open aperture, you get strong vignetting in the corners.
And APG isn't able to compensate this issues at the moment.
You can check this in Photoshop, simple place two of the input images one next to the other
and then move them a little bit.

_________________
Regards
Martin


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 03, 2014 1:16 pm 
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oreillyfotograf wrote:

** It´s not logical that you have this banding. Must be some basic settings!
The banding relates to the rendering of individusl frames and is different in each Pano


That´s why i suggested to run a rendering using 16bit output. Usually a litle amount of banding can occur
when you make the pano interactive in PTP. Here you can set the jpg-compression. I found that a compressions of 7 - 8 is an
optimal compromise of tone-range and data-size.

oreillyfotograf wrote:
** I suggest first check carefully your Photoshop-colorsettings. Then view the image.
I'm not using Photoshop anywhere in my workflow!!


Well - some control of the colorrange would be nice . .

I can assure you that banding is NOT a result from rendering in APG - as long as you use it correctly.

I suggest to leave away the profile you implement in LR.

"Using a ColorChecker Passport profile reviously create for this camera/Lens combination."

What does that mean in detail? I never heard of that one. What a profile is it exactly? Remember: on the
web there is nothing like reliable color-profiles. A kind of agreement says that sRGB is something
like a base - but not every browser handles it correctly.

So: either NO profile or sRGB-profile. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SRGB

My advise usually is: no profile at all. You don´t have any kind of control about how a profile is interpreted on the
user´s machines.

best, Klaus


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 03, 2014 1:56 pm 
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Klaus,

I was doing further testing this morning and discovered that there was ISO variables in the pano images. My fault completely.

Apologies for wasting your time on this one.

I'll go and repeat the exercise again.

Happy New Year and thanks for your help.

Regards,

Niall


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 03, 2014 2:02 pm 
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oreillyfotograf wrote:
Apologies for wasting your time on this one.


No, no - we all can learn from those issues! No reason to apologize.

oreillyfotograf wrote:
Happy New Year and thanks for your help.


Happy new year to you and your family too!

best, Klaus

PS: in the image you posted i see no resp. VERY few banding. So it might be related to the browser also - i use
Safari on a MacBook Pro and a MacPro.

regarding the fact you need to compress image-data for showing it via a web-browser it´s quite obvious that some
kind of banding might occur - related to the kind of compression you use as well as related to the way the browser handles
it.


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 03, 2014 2:37 pm 
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Klaus,

** What does that mean in detail? I never heard of that one. What a profile is it exactly? Remember: on the
web there is nothing like reliable color-profiles. A kind of agreement says that sRGB is something
like a base - but not every browser handles it correctly.

The Color Checker is just that a calibration utility for which I create a profile for each of my lenses, as I only have the one body:
http://xritephoto.com/ph_product_overview.aspx?ID=1257



** So: either NO profile or sRGB-profile. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SRGB

I have been using Adobe RGB color space for a good few years now as it has a larger gamut than sRGB. I also dicsoverd this morning that LR uses Pro Photo RGB Color Space.

Klaus, which would you recommend for AGP. *.TIFF or *.DNG files to build the pano before rendering?

Bet regards,

Niall


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 03, 2014 3:49 pm 
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oreillyfotograf wrote:
Klaus,

** What does that mean in detail? I never heard of that one. What a profile is it exactly? Remember: on the
web there is nothing like reliable color-profiles. A kind of agreement says that sRGB is something
like a base - but not every browser handles it correctly.

The Color Checker is just that a calibration utility for which I create a profile for each of my lenses, as I only have the one body:
http://xritephoto.com/ph_product_overview.aspx?ID=1257



** So: either NO profile or sRGB-profile. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SRGB

I have been using Adobe RGB color space for a good few years now as it has a larger gamut than sRGB. I also dicsoverd this morning that LR uses Pro Photo RGB Color Space.

Klaus, which would you recommend for AGP. *.TIFF or *.DNG files to build the pano before rendering?

Bet regards,

Niall


A *colorspace* and a *profile* are different things! They CAN interact - or not.

In APG i almost always use TIFF.

My workflow:
1) shooting RAW: i process the RAW preferably in CaptureOne.
2) export them as 16bit TIFF or 8bit TIFF (depends on the individual case) to APG.

1a) shooting bracketed as RAW: i process the RAWs in C1 and export them as TIFF to Photomatix.
1aa) shooting JPG "processing" the JPG in LightRoom (CA, vign., sharpness and some) (i use JPG only when i have some hundreds of iages)
1b) process HDR-->>tonemapping in Phtmx and exporet them as 16bit TIFF to APG for stitching.
1c) Rendering as 8bit or 16bit TIFF.
1d) making sphere to cube, editing the Nadir and making cube to sphere again using the KRPano droplets.
1e) final controlling/editing in Photoshop.

I prefer to export TIFF 8 or 16bit to PTP and use compr. 7 or 8 here - my panos/tours have extremely big data-amount otherwise . .
and it´s no relevant advantage to use more than 8.

best, Klaus


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 03, 2014 7:14 pm 
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Thanks Klaus for that information.

Kind regards,

Niall


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 13, 2014 1:04 pm 
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Klaus,

I got to the bottom of my banding, at last...

The issue was being caused by the rendering parameters, which I had set to their default. See before (Pre-Blending_Change.jpg) and after (Post-Blending_Change.jpg) images attached.
By trying different combinations of rendering I settled on these parameters as being the best for me.

Niall


Attachments:
Post-Blending_Change.jpg
Post-Blending_Change.jpg [ 94.8 KiB | Viewed 298 times ]
Pre-Blending_Change.jpg
Pre-Blending_Change.jpg [ 106.07 KiB | Viewed 298 times ]
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 13, 2014 1:33 pm 
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oreillyfotograf wrote:
Klaus,

I got to the bottom of my banding, at last...

The issue was being caused by the rendering parameters, which I had set to their default. See before (Pre-Blending_Change.jpg) and after (Post-Blending_Change.jpg) images attached.
By trying different combinations of rendering I settled on these parameters as being the best for me.

Niall


Hi Niall!

I guess i mixed your term "banding"! I interpreted it as a kind of "posterizing" - which happens with too hard
compression or/and too low colorspace like sRGB or so.

Sorry for that.

Yes - this kind of banding sometimes appears in the render-process. Some people mean that´s related to vignetting.
Maybe. I mean it´s also an issue in the blending - if it´s caused by vignetting the color-correction would be able to equalize it . .
like it did in early smartblend-versions.

Can you show a new example using the altered settings which shows the difference to your first image?

best, Klaus


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 13, 2014 2:06 pm 
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klausesser wrote:
oreillyfotograf wrote:
Klaus,

I got to the bottom of my banding, at last...

The issue was being caused by the rendering parameters, which I had set to their default. See before (Pre-Blending_Change.jpg) and after (Post-Blending_Change.jpg) images attached.
By trying different combinations of rendering I settled on these parameters as being the best for me.

Niall


Hi Niall!

I guess i mixed your term "banding"! I interpreted it as a kind of "posterizing" - which happens with too hard
compression or/and too low colorspace like sRGB or so.

Sorry for that.

Yes - this kind of banding sometimes appears in the render-process. Some people mean that´s related to vignetting.
Maybe. I mean it´s also an issue in the blending - if it´s caused by vignetting the color-correction would be able to equalize it . .
like it did in early smartblend-versions.

Can you show a new example using the altered settings which shows the difference to your first image?

best, Klaus


I don't think so - AFAIK APP/APG has no ability to compensate for vignetting.


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