This time I need your help stitching a panorama  

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HansKeesom
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This time I need your help stitching a panorama

by HansKeesom » Wed Dec 18, 2013 4:51 pm

Yes normally I try to help others to get their stitching done but this time I have a set of photos I can not get to a good result.

they are shot in a sporthall, with a lot of lines which seem to be the cause of the problems. could also be the photographers making mistakes in his setup of course.
I uploaded 112 NEF-files onto https://www.dropbox.com/sh/vghupf5eka06 ... _Lt6MdY?m=

It are brackets of 7 photos, so 6 brackets. lens information in the files, but should be 12 mm fishey and nikon d3oos

is there anyone willing to try and in case of succes tell what the photographer or I have done wrong.

I hope someone wil give it a try and tell me and show me how to solve this. I have tried for a month now and am a bit desperate.

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gkaefer
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Re: This time I need your help stitching a panorama

by gkaefer » Wed Dec 18, 2013 6:15 pm

bracketing inside apg or with external tool (oloneo, photomatix I can offer)?
Georg

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HansKeesom
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Re: This time I need your help stitching a panorama

by HansKeesom » Wed Dec 18, 2013 7:34 pm

I tried inside and outside. spending every free moment on it for the last month. Just hoping someone is willing to try it their way and see how far they get....

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Destiny
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Re: This time I need your help stitching a panorama

by Destiny » Wed Dec 18, 2013 9:36 pm

Can you zip the files.. Its hard to download individually...

Destiny..

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mediavets
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Re: This time I need your help stitching a panorama

by mediavets » Wed Dec 18, 2013 9:51 pm

Destiny wrote:Can you zip the files.. Its hard to download individually...

Destiny..


Click the Download button and it will show you that option:
Attachments
1-dropbox-aszip.jpg

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Re: This time I need your help stitching a panorama

by gkaefer » Thu Dec 19, 2013 1:02 am

.. and when you click download as zip you get the info the zip is to big to be handled with dropbox.... I used alternative to Transfer the Images to my dropbox....
Georg

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Destiny
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Re: This time I need your help stitching a panorama

by Destiny » Thu Dec 19, 2013 1:23 am

Yes... I just done it now and processing.. I had to go out to the Antique Centre again.. LivePano test.. =D

Hans.. were you standing on top of the pole swinging about.. Just shocking.. and... why the mismatch of exposers.. Some set have 4 and some have 5 and different EVs.. eeeks... I have never seen a tripod foot print look like this.. I think your entire rig moved..

Destiny..
Attachments
pano3.jpg

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Re: This time I need your help stitching a panorama

by gkaefer » Thu Dec 19, 2013 2:25 am

the best I can get in one hour...

ok,
I did convert your Adobe _xx nef files to sRBG jpeg...
and I did only use Image 5 of the stacks...
I did manipulate the control Points mainly on the wall objects to add more green and delete the deep red ones
I rotated all your bottom files to horizontally Format (correct or not ... both cases better than mixing vertical and horizontal aligned Images)
I did set about 10 red mask dots on tripod objects and did set about 5 green mask dots to Color lines)
I did use the preview method for screenshot

I would not use the stack method in APG with this Project... it gives me 8000% worse results in same time spent with...

Georg
Attachments
2013-12-19 02_14_08-[Group 0]-_RON3831__RON3936-16 images.pano_.png

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Destiny
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Re: This time I need your help stitching a panorama

by Destiny » Thu Dec 19, 2013 8:02 am

Very strange for sure..

Way past my fixing abilities.. =(

Destiny...
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HansPanoYuck.jpg

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lumelix
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Re: This time I need your help stitching a panorama

by lumelix » Thu Dec 19, 2013 4:43 pm

Hi Hans
This case has interested me, so I've look at it.
It's a really good example how not to shoot a pano!
Especially with such a sensitive subject as this hall with that many lines.

But first, I'm confused about the lens used: 8mm (DX) or 12mm (FX)?
AFAIK there is no D-Nikkor fisheye with 8 or 12 mm. There is a 10mm f/2.8D (DX) or a 16mm f/2.8D. And a manual 8mm f/2.5 without D.

And the aperture range 1:3.5-1.4 (!!!) makes absolute no sense also.
If it's a zoom like the 10-24mm it's f/3.5-4.5, or the 12- 24mm is f/4.0.
But these are not fisheyes. So what kind of lens he has used to shoot this images ?

The shooting pattern is also curios: First 6 Images tilt up a little bit. That is ok.
If you use only this 6 images, you get a really good stitch.
In the example below we can see that the upper 6 images and one Nadir are almost enough to cover the scene.
But then 6 images horizontally ? Lot to much overlapping with the upper ones.

And then 4 Nadir images, every one with a different position (multiple viewpoints, the whole tripod is visible). And it looks like the tripod wasn't horizontally then.
Not possible to stitch properly! And brackets makes also no sense in this hall.
So I suggest to go one more time in this hall and shoot it again in 5 minutes, than try hours and hours to get a usefull result with this mess ;)
Attachments
viewNX_EXIF.jpg
stitch.jpg
Regards
Martin

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Re: This time I need your help stitching a panorama

by mediavets » Thu Dec 19, 2013 5:48 pm

lumelix wrote:But first, I'm confused about the lens used: 8mm (DX) or 12mm (FX)?
AFAIK there is no D-Nikkor fisheye with 8 or 12 mm. There is a 10mm f/2.8D (DX) or a 16mm f/2.8D. And a manual 8mm f/2.5 without D.

And the aperture range 1:3.5-1.4 (!!!) makes absolute no sense also.
If it's a zoom like the 10-24mm it's f/3.5-4.5, or the 12- 24mm is f/4.0.
But these are not fisheyes. So what kind of lens he has used to shoot this images ?


Could it be the Nikon version of the Samyang 8mm FE with the AE chip?

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Re: This time I need your help stitching a panorama

by lumelix » Thu Dec 19, 2013 5:59 pm

Hi
If so, then there is a other problem: The Samyang have an other kind of projektion,
more like an ultra wide angle than a fisheye.
As I look at the images first, I think these aren't fisheye images because of an untypically distortion.
Could be that is also a reason for the stitching problems.
But as long as we don't know more...
Regards
Martin

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Re: This time I need your help stitching a panorama

by HansKeesom » Fri Dec 20, 2013 8:10 pm

yes yes, it is the Samyang 8 mm.
So should I tell autopano it is not an fisheye?

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Re: This time I need your help stitching a panorama

by HansKeesom » Fri Dec 20, 2013 8:29 pm

Destiny wrote:Yes... I just done it now and processing.. I had to go out to the Antique Centre again.. LivePano test.. =D

Hans.. were you standing on top of the pole swinging about.. Just shocking.. and... why the mismatch of exposers.. Some set have 4 and some have 5 and different EVs.. eeeks... I have never seen a tripod foot print look like this.. I think your entire rig moved..

Destiny..

Hi Destiny,

Each stack is 7 photos, first a reference photo, then 3 underexposed and then 3 overexposed. That is what the camera does. I don't have a d300s so i think it should be possible to change it more to your liking. Don't think autopano has a problem with it.

About the swinging, are you referring to the nadir images or to the normal images.

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Re: This time I need your help stitching a panorama

by mediavets » Fri Dec 20, 2013 10:12 pm

HansKeesom wrote:yes yes, it is the Samyang 8 mm.
So should I tell autopano it is not an fisheye?


It is a fisheye but with a different projection:

http://michel.thoby.free.fr/SAMYANG/Ear ... eport.html

However I have stitched FE images sets shot with a Samyang 8mm with APG with no particular problems.

The focal length is (said to be, by those that know) closer to 10mm than 8mm, you could try setting it manually.

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HansKeesom
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Re: This time I need your help stitching a panorama

by HansKeesom » Fri Dec 20, 2013 10:17 pm

mediavets wrote:
HansKeesom wrote:yes yes, it is the Samyang 8 mm.
So should I tell autopano it is not an fisheye?


It is a fisheye but with a different projection:

http://michel.thoby.free.fr/SAMYANG/Ear ... eport.html

However I have stitched FE images sets shot with a Samyang 8mm with APG with no particular problems.

The focal length is (said to be, by those that know) closer to 10mm than 8mm, you could try setting it manually.



autopano did already give a calculated focal length of 13.1 which is only a bit less then the 13.27 that is the result of 8.7 * D300S 1.5.. chip factor

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Re: This time I need your help stitching a panorama

by HansKeesom » Sun Dec 22, 2013 5:04 pm

update : detection on third layer gives a very good result. Even though it is a rather dark layer.

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Re: This time I need your help stitching a panorama

by gkaefer » Mon Dec 23, 2013 2:53 pm

Hans,

I honestly have the Feeling about APG that some sort of random Generator is builtin.
you can take one and the same Images
and you use exact the same Settings
and in result you allways ever get different results.
you have to try only Long enough to find the Fitting for you...

... in your case...
I used the jpgs created from your nef files (lazy I am with only 16GigRam I dont wanna wait to Long...)
and did use the bluddy Default values after installing APG 3.0.8

and now the miracle: my single Point of Change was to enable the Option Settings->Optimization->Optimizatzion stage: Multiple viewpoints

and than I did preview your pano with the builtin preview Option.

result see screenshot...
I would finally tweek the horizon line and would try to correct the 3 mini Errors in the lines via CPs and finally would render it without spending more time....

Georg
Attachments
2013-12-23-14_39_46-2.png

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HansKeesom
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Re: This time I need your help stitching a panorama

by HansKeesom » Mon Dec 23, 2013 3:50 pm

gkaefer wrote:Hans,

I honestly have the Feeling about APG that some sort of random Generator is builtin.
you can take one and the same Images
and you use exact the same Settings
and in result you allways ever get different results.
you have to try only Long enough to find the Fitting for you...

... in your case...
I used the jpgs created from your nef files (lazy I am with only 16GigRam I dont wanna wait to Long...)
and did use the bluddy Default values after installing APG 3.0.8

and now the miracle: my single Point of Change was to enable the Option Settings->Optimization->Optimizatzion stage: Multiple viewpoints

and than I did preview your pano with the builtin preview Option.

result see screenshot...
I would finally tweek the horizon line and would try to correct the 3 mini Errors in the lines via CPs and finally would render it without spending more time....

Georg


Hi Georg,

Good to hear you have made so much progress. Could you (zip and) upload the project so i can download it and finish it?

I hope not there is random behavior. I find it more likely that small differences between panorama's can have large consequences regarding stitching. I this case it is problably the exposure, that the layer with the right exposure is not necesarryly the one with the best detection results. For this photographer I will now generate a two detections, one with normal layer, one with the third layer, which is the second from the dark side. I hope that will more easily give me a good version.

From the whole exercise I also learned once again that if the normal routine failes one needs a number of brute force routines to generat many versions of a panorama so one can select the best one. It takes a lot of time to do this manually but it is still worth the effort. It would however safe a lot of time behind the computer if this could be automated. On the other hand, maybe it is unrealistic to think this kind of intelligence combine with brute force can be automated and should be glad I can develop this intelligence and use it for the projects of the photographers I work with.

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Re: This time I need your help stitching a panorama

by gkaefer » Mon Dec 23, 2013 6:53 pm

dropbox upload (110mb) is estimated 1hour from now...
will than post the public URL here...

notice:
only used one Frame (no5)
you've to open the Project files and Change my local disk paths...

Georg

PS: after seeing the preview from coming apg 3.5 I think your pano will be a 40second pano effort with new apg... (handling lines...)

EDIT 20:02:
THE LINK: https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/82798952/test-hans.zip
I would enfuse the Image stacks with external program and rename the final Images so they fit to the Project file I uploaded....
Last edited by gkaefer on Mon Dec 23, 2013 8:04 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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lumelix
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Re: This time I need your help stitching a panorama

by lumelix » Mon Dec 23, 2013 7:04 pm

gkaefer wrote:PS: after seeing the preview from coming apg 3.5 ...)


Where ?
Regards
Martin

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Re: This time I need your help stitching a panorama

by gkaefer » Mon Dec 23, 2013 7:58 pm

lumelix wrote:
gkaefer wrote:PS: after seeing the preview from coming apg 3.5 ...)


Where ?


http://www.kolor.com and on FrontPage follow: http://www.kolor.com/blog-en/2013/12/23 ... -giga-3-5/
:cool:
Georg

PS: on YouTube you can add kolors channel to yours... so you get informed automatically when kolor is uploading Videos (0-5 hours before blog entry is coming ;-))

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Re: This time I need your help stitching a panorama

by lumelix » Mon Dec 23, 2013 10:27 pm

BAM !
Yes, this preview looks really good, big improvement in the detection module.
Hope, they haven't forgotten completely the color correction for big gigas with changing lights ;)
Regards
Martin


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