Size and quality  

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waxxie
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Size and quality

by waxxie » Tue Dec 17, 2013 12:51 am

I would like to know what size and quality is fine to make later a tour with panotour pro in order to make the tour work quickly and with a fine resolution. It would be great if somebody lets me know the best combination of size and jpeg quality. I understand that it could depends on the resolution of the cam, but I would like to have an idea about size/quality.
thanks

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mediavets
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Re: Size and quality

by mediavets » Tue Dec 17, 2013 1:12 am

waxxie wrote:I would like to know what size and quality is fine to make later a tour with panotour pro in order to make the tour work quickly and with a fine resolution. It would be great if somebody lets me know the best combination of size and jpeg quality. I understand that it could depends on the resolution of the cam, but I would like to have an idea about size/quality.
thanks


This is really an irrelevant question.

Panotour and Panotour Pro support multi-resolution tiling which means your panorama image can be as large as you might reasonably wish and it will have little impact on perform when it is viewed as part of a tour. Although this does require more storage on the web server.

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Re: Size and quality

by osmica » Sun Jan 12, 2014 1:46 am

I have a similar question on this theme. For example I have created a tour with 26 panos. Each of them have between 2-5 MB, resolution 5000x2500px/72dpi. When I was processing them in PS, I save them as JPG image quality 10. I built the tour with quality 12. Now my tour have almost 400 MB. I checked all files because I was thinking that I added some large files. It is not my case 100% sure!
PTP2 created a large folder for each pano. From my pano of 3,99 MB it creates a folder of 21.2 MB.
I suppose reason is that I set quality 12. If I build the tour in quality 10 I believe total size will be less.

I don't know the right way to create a tour that will be excelent quality but not too heavy. Is there anybody that can explain, please?
My questions:

1) Is it better to create a smaller resolution like mine or higher like 10.000x5.000px? (I want it is nicest possible on full HD screens 1920x1080)
2) Do I need to save my panos in quality 10 or some other?
3) What quality to set when building the tour. I mean, does it has sense to build in quality 12 panos that were previous in PS saved in quality 10?

I don't understand how software understand that. If I save a JPG file in quality 10 and than I build the tour in quality 10 will the quality still be 10 or less because I save it 2 times in quality lower than the maximum?

Kind regards,
Toni

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Destiny
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Re: Size and quality

by Destiny » Sun Jan 12, 2014 3:03 am

eekks.. You do not do it that way. You can save at 100% from Photoshop... Then let PTP do the optimising... Set it to 10, or 9 for build... Thats it.. You are even better off importing your images into PTP as TIFs to maintain all the data until the end.. but JPGs are fine as long as they are 12... As I said, let PTP do the optimising.. Doing it your way will result in issues... The actual size of your panos has nothing to do with anything.. PTP will slice up the pano image into appropriate sub folders according to the size of your pano for best optimal performance by creating the multi-resolution and tiling of images. You do not have to do anything.. Apart from set the jpg quality at the time of build...

Destiny..

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Re: Size and quality

by mediavets » Sun Jan 12, 2014 9:01 am

osmica wrote:I have a similar question on this theme. For example I have created a tour with 26 panos. Each of them have between 2-5 MB, resolution 5000x2500px/72dpi. When I was processing them in PS, I save them as JPG image quality 10. I built the tour with quality 12. Now my tour have almost 400 MB. I checked all files because I was thinking that I added some large files. It is not my case 100% sure!

The total size of the output files will be considerably greater than the sum of file sizes of the input files because PTP creates multi-resolution tiles by default. This increases the total size of the output files but means that the tour can be viewed 'smoothly' and with max. zoom-in/out capability regardless of the resolution of the input images and the performance of the platform used to view the tour.
PTP2 created a large folder for each pano. From my pano of 3,99 MB it creates a folder of 21.2 MB.
I suppose reason is that I set quality 12. If I build the tour in quality 10 I believe total size will be less.

Yes.

I don't know the right way to create a tour that will be excellent quality but not too heavy. Is there anybody that can explain, please?
My questions:

1) Is it better to create a smaller resolution like mine or higher like 10.000x5.000px? (I want it is nicest possible on full HD screens 1920x1080)

Then you may well need a still higher resolution of input image, but certainly don't go smaller than 10k x 5k pixels.

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Re: Size and quality

by osmica » Sun Jan 12, 2014 2:00 pm

I understand now better. Thank you both!
Destiny, you have mention that TIFF files can be used in the tour. I will need to check that (about size). My panos are something bigger than 10k x 5k and saved as TIFF their weight more than 200 MB each. I really don't believe that PTP's function of image quality can make the tour smaller (less weight). Or I am wrong? But if PTP creates tiles in JPG of quality I set, than it is really possible. Am I right?
I will check that way to create the tour.

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Re: Size and quality

by mediavets » Sun Jan 12, 2014 2:04 pm

osmica wrote:I understand now better. Thank you both!
Destiny, you have mention that TIFF files can be used in the tour. I will need to check that (about size). My panos are something bigger than 10k x 5k and saved as TIFF their weight more than 200 MB each. I really don't believe that PTP's function of image quality can make the tour smaller (less weight). Or I am wrong? But if PTP creates tiles in JPG of quality I set, than it is really possible. Am I right?
I will check that way to create the tour.

The tiles PT/PTP creates are in JPEG format regardless of the format of the input files.

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Re: Size and quality

by klausesser » Sun Jan 12, 2014 3:48 pm

osmica wrote:I have a similar question on this theme. For example I have created a tour with 26 panos. Each of them have between 2-5 MB, resolution 5000x2500px/72dpi. When I was processing them in PS, I save them as JPG image quality 10. I built the tour with quality 12. Now my tour have almost 400 MB. I checked all files because I was thinking that I added some large files. It is not my case 100% sure!


Hi Toni!

5000x2500px is VERY small and results in a rather poor quality on modern displays - which usually have at least 1200x800px!
I strongly suggest to use *at least* 10000x5000px for having it displayed in accaptable quality.

The final datasize of a tour first hand depends on how you set the compression in PTP. I always use 7 - 8 for a good compromise of data-size and image-quality.
See ome of my results here: http://360impressions.de/Wohnung It´s about 15000x7500px, used jpg.-compr. 7 in PTP.

Other results you find here:
http://klausesser-interaktiv.de/
and here:
http://www.360impressions.de/AuswAlle.html

I also strongly suggest to import the images as TIFFs into PTP. I usually use 16bit/TIFF.
Compressing them in PTP to JPG7 or 8 preserves the best quality when downsizing in data i mean.

best, Klaus

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Re: Size and quality

by osmica » Sun Jan 12, 2014 3:50 pm

Thank you Klauss!

Can you tell me what lens you used for this panos?

1) http://www.360impressions.de/KBogen2/
2) http://360impressions.de/MKP_TOUR/

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Re: Size and quality

by klausesser » Sun Jan 12, 2014 4:26 pm

osmica wrote:Thank you Klauss!

Can you tell me what lens you used for this panos?

1) http://www.360impressions.de/KBogen2/
2) http://360impressions.de/MKP_TOUR/



1) 35mm and 85mm Nikon primes 48 and 214 shots (85mm @ "Schadowstrasse" and "Oper")
2) Canon 15mm Fisheye and Nikon 35mm prime.

Camera: 5D2

best, Klaus

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Re: Size and quality

by HansKeesom » Sun Jan 12, 2014 7:00 pm

klausesser wrote:
osmica wrote:Thank you Klauss!

Can you tell me what lens you used for this panos?

1) http://www.360impressions.de/KBogen2/
2) http://360impressions.de/MKP_TOUR/



1) 35mm and 85mm Nikon primes 48 and 214 shots (85mm @ "Schadowstrasse" and "Oper")
2) Canon 15mm Fisheye and Nikon 35mm prime.

Camera: 5D2

best, Klaus

Hi Klaus,

Regardin 2), you are now combining fisheye and non-fisheye? Do you need to convert the fisheye-pictures for this or is it just simple raw->tiff conversion?

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Re: Size and quality

by klausesser » Sun Jan 12, 2014 9:58 pm

HansKeesom wrote:Do you need to convert the fisheye-pictures for this . .


No - why would i?

best, Klaus

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Re: Size and quality

by HansKeesom » Sun Jan 12, 2014 11:20 pm

klausesser wrote:
HansKeesom wrote:Do you need to convert the fisheye-pictures for this . .


No - why would i?

best, Klaus


Cause autopano not accepting fisheye and normal lenses in one panorama?

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Destiny
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Re: Size and quality

by Destiny » Sun Jan 12, 2014 11:41 pm

Play on English.... Klaus means 'or' not 'and'....

Besides that, APG 3.5 'CAN' accept mixed lens types...

Destiny

klausesser wrote:
1) 35mm and 85mm Nikon primes 48 and 214 shots (85mm @ "Schadowstrasse" and "Oper")
2) Canon 15mm Fisheye and Nikon 35mm prime.

Camera: 5D2

best, Klaus

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Re: Size and quality

by HansKeesom » Mon Jan 13, 2014 12:20 am

Destiny wrote:Play on English.... Klaus means 'or' not 'and'....

Besides that, APG 3.5 'CAN' accept mixed lens types...

Destiny

klausesser wrote:
1) 35mm and 85mm Nikon primes 48 and 214 shots (85mm @ "Schadowstrasse" and "Oper")
2) Canon 15mm Fisheye and Nikon 35mm prime.

Camera: 5D2

best, Klaus


Running 3.0.8. RC1, so we have to wait for 3.5?

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Destiny
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Re: Size and quality

by Destiny » Mon Jan 13, 2014 1:58 am

APG 3.5 this month.... apparently...
RC1 is PTP...

Destiny

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klausesser
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Re: Size and quality

by klausesser » Mon Jan 13, 2014 11:12 am

HansKeesom wrote:
klausesser wrote:
HansKeesom wrote:Do you need to convert the fisheye-pictures for this . .


No - why would i?

best, Klaus


Cause autopano not accepting fisheye and normal lenses in one panorama?



In one panorama?? No - of course not. That are tours! :cool:

best, Klaus

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Re: Size and quality

by klausesser » Mon Jan 13, 2014 11:15 am

HansKeesom wrote:
Destiny wrote:Play on English.... Klaus means 'or' not 'and'....

Besides that, APG 3.5 'CAN' accept mixed lens types...

Destiny

klausesser wrote:
1) 35mm and 85mm Nikon primes 48 and 214 shots (85mm @ "Schadowstrasse" and "Oper")
2) Canon 15mm Fisheye and Nikon 35mm prime.

Camera: 5D2

best, Klaus


Running 3.0.8. RC1, so we have to wait for 3.5?


3.0.8 also accepts mixed lenses afaik - to a certain degree. But not a mix of fisheyes and rect. ones.

Klaus

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Re: Size and quality

by HansKeesom » Mon Jan 13, 2014 1:09 pm

Destiny wrote:APG 3.5 this month.... apparently...
RC1 is PTP...

Destiny


And it wasn't even late.....mixed up, sorry

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Re: Size and quality

by HansKeesom » Mon Jan 13, 2014 1:15 pm

klausesser wrote:
Running 3.0.8. RC1, so we have to wait for 3.5?


3.0.8 also accepts mixed lenses afaik - to a certain degree. But not a mix of fisheyes and rect. ones.

Klaus[/quote]

wouldn't be bad to shoot whole panorama in both fisheye and f.e. partly in 50 mm. Fisheye would help to place 50 mm photos in right location. Changing setting of camera on panohead is of course a lot of work.

Maybe just need a zoomlens where the NPP does not change with zoomlenght and changing degrees. mmmmmm might be hard to find

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Re: Size and quality

by klausesser » Mon Jan 13, 2014 1:37 pm

HansKeesom wrote:wouldn't be bad to shoot whole panorama in both fisheye and f.e. partly in 50 mm. Fisheye would help to place 50 mm photos in right location. Changing setting of camera on panohead is of course a lot of work.



Two completely different kinds of projection. I don´t believe it´s possible to combine them both in the same panorama.

Klaus

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mediavets
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Re: Size and quality

by mediavets » Mon Jan 13, 2014 2:21 pm

klausesser wrote:
HansKeesom wrote:wouldn't be bad to shoot whole panorama in both fisheye and f.e. partly in 50 mm. Fisheye would help to place 50 mm photos in right location. Changing setting of camera on panohead is of course a lot of work.



Two completely different kinds of projection. I don´t believe it´s possible to combine them both in the same panorama.

Klaus


It will be in 3.5.


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