Not Enough Memory for Antighost - layer at a time  

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MartinKS
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Not Enough Memory for Antighost - layer at a time

by MartinKS » Sun Jun 09, 2013 11:34 am

Morning all,
I've got a lot of overlap in one of my panoramas, and multiple exposures too. A normal render fails with not enough memory, so I thought to myself "why not export one layer at a time, that way there will be much much less overlap..."

Is there still too much overlap, or does exporting one layer at a time not help to reduce this error?

And before anyone says it... Yes I know I should buy more RAM.





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by HansKeesom » Sun Jun 09, 2013 11:44 am

Have a look under edit-> settings in the main programm. The general tab might help you.
How much RAM do you have?
Feel free to dropbox me the files and project and I will render them for you.
Regards, Hans Keesom
I stitch and render for other photographers. Price: 25 euro or less, no cure no pay. If you want to concentrate on your business let me do the stitching for you. Free TB of Dropbox space when you have more then 250 euro business a year.

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by MartinKS » Sun Jun 09, 2013 11:57 am

Well the settings all correspond to the memory and folders that I have, and have set up. I only have 8GB, but I was hoping the software would have a more intelligent approach to using it... each layer won't have a massive number of overlaps, so I was hoping that rendering one layer at a time would be able to fit in the memory. Each layer is only 27 4 megapixel images after all!

Thanks for the offer on rendering, but this isn't by any means an important image to me. Worst comes to worst I'll use photoshop and just render the 0 or -1 bracket.

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by klausesser » Sun Jun 09, 2013 12:08 pm

MartinKS wrote:Well the settings all correspond to the memory and folders that I have, and have set up. I only have 8GB, but I was hoping the software would have a more intelligent approach to using it... each layer won't have a massive number of overlaps, so I was hoping that rendering one layer at a time would be able to fit in the memory. Each layer is only 27 4 megapixel images after all!

Thanks for the offer on rendering, but this isn't by any means an important image to me. Worst comes to worst I'll use photoshop and just render the 0 or -1 bracket.

Especially with 8GB RAM: I *strongly* suggest to process your bracketed shots in Photomatix, Oloneo or so BEFORE stitching them. Save them as TIFFs and import them into APG.
You´ll see how VERY much faster the stitching will run, how much faster the optimizer works and your 8GB RAM should be able to do it.

APG does NO tonemapping your bracketed shots at all. It does fusioning. And it does it in a VERY uncomfortable and - as i call it - "clandestine" manner.
You can´t find an in-deep-explanation how to use it.

So it´s just try-and-error. And that´s what i prefer to call simply unusable.

best, Klaus
Simplicity is the keynote of all true elegance. Coco Chanel

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by klausesser » Sun Jun 09, 2013 12:11 pm

MartinKS wrote:Morning all,
I've got a lot of overlap in one of my panoramas,

Why?

best, Klaus
Simplicity is the keynote of all true elegance. Coco Chanel

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by MartinKS » Sun Jun 09, 2013 12:17 pm

klausesser wrote:
MartinKS wrote:Morning all,
I've got a lot of overlap in one of my panoramas,

Why?

best, Klaus

I was standing under a waterfall, on slippery rocks, getting soaked wet. I took the photos very quickly and preferred to get too much overlap than too little.

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by MartinKS » Sun Jun 09, 2013 12:19 pm

klausesser wrote:
MartinKS wrote:Well the settings all correspond to the memory and folders that I have, and have set up. I only have 8GB, but I was hoping the software would have a more intelligent approach to using it... each layer won't have a massive number of overlaps, so I was hoping that rendering one layer at a time would be able to fit in the memory. Each layer is only 27 4 megapixel images after all!

Thanks for the offer on rendering, but this isn't by any means an important image to me. Worst comes to worst I'll use photoshop and just render the 0 or -1 bracket.

Especially with 8GB RAM: I *strongly* suggest to process your bracketed shots in Photomatix, Oloneo or so BEFORE stitching them. Save them as TIFFs and import them into APG.
You´ll see how VERY much faster the stitching will run, how much faster the optimizer works and your 8GB RAM should be able to do it.

APG does NO tonemapping your bracketed shots at all. It does fusioning. And it does it in a VERY uncomfortable and - as i call it - "clandestine" manner.
You can´t find an in-deep-explanation how to use it.

So it´s just try-and-error. And that´s what i prefer to call simply unusable.

best, Klaus

I'll have a go with these - though this is a few more steps than I was hoping to take for a straightforward quick panorama. I guess in a few years of saving up for a good machine my life will be easier again.

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by HansKeesom » Sun Jun 09, 2013 12:40 pm

MartinKS wrote:Well the settings all correspond to the memory and folders that I have, and have set up. I only have 8GB, but I was hoping the software would have a more intelligent approach to using it... each layer won't have a massive number of overlaps, so I was hoping that rendering one layer at a time would be able to fit in the memory. Each layer is only 27 4 megapixel images after all!

Thanks for the offer on rendering, but this isn't by any means an important image to me. Worst comes to worst I'll use photoshop and just render the 0 or -1 bracket.

Hi Martin,

In case you have a large enough SSD you might be able to finish things even with 8 GB. But more RAM to start with is the best investment.

Really. no problem to render it for you. Share a folder with me and I put it in my render queue between the other projects I do. The result will be dropboxed back to you ;-)

The rendering in seperate layers of fusing before loading into APG are all good ways to get away with less memory btw
Regards, Hans Keesom
I stitch and render for other photographers. Price: 25 euro or less, no cure no pay. If you want to concentrate on your business let me do the stitching for you. Free TB of Dropbox space when you have more then 250 euro business a year.

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by klausesser » Sun Jun 09, 2013 12:42 pm

MartinKS wrote:I'll have a go with these - though this is a few more steps than I was hoping to take for a straightforward quick panorama. I guess in a few years of saving up for a good machine my life will be easier again.

I used to go this way when i used a MacBook Pro having 4GB RAM in it! It worked with spheres of 120MPx without any issue.
An example: http://www.360impressions.de/Tourk21.html

best, Klaus

PS:

in real it´s no more steps than fiddeling around with the fusion-tool and to use seperate layers in rendering. I guess the pre-processing in Photomatix or so
and stitching after that will be even faster . . definitely on your machine!
Last edited by klausesser on Sun Jun 09, 2013 12:52 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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by MartinKS » Sun Jun 09, 2013 1:11 pm

It's no more steps, but with a machine as slow as this one I like things that I can set going and leave for a few hours. Each HDR is easy enough to make, but needs me to be back at the computer fiddling with it very often!

I'm grateful for the help though, this way I can render my picture at all!

Hans - I'm uploading the images now too, thanks :)

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by HansKeesom » Sun Jun 09, 2013 1:28 pm

send invitation or link to hans@alsofjeerbent.nl

This one is free of charge of course.

Do add your .pano file
Regards, Hans Keesom
I stitch and render for other photographers. Price: 25 euro or less, no cure no pay. If you want to concentrate on your business let me do the stitching for you. Free TB of Dropbox space when you have more then 250 euro business a year.

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by MartinKS » Sun Jun 09, 2013 1:58 pm

Thanks Hans, I've just sent you a folder with everything via dropbox. Let me know if I've saved the .pano file with some wrong settings, I've never shared one before.

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by HansKeesom » Sun Jun 09, 2013 2:09 pm

received the invitation. Downloading started. When done will add it to the render queue. Result should be returned automaticly through dropbox. Don't expect anything today as queue is long and dropbox can be slow.
Regards, Hans Keesom
I stitch and render for other photographers. Price: 25 euro or less, no cure no pay. If you want to concentrate on your business let me do the stitching for you. Free TB of Dropbox space when you have more then 250 euro business a year.

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by MartinKS » Sun Jun 09, 2013 2:11 pm

Thanks very much, I'll be grateful whenever it's done - I'm trying the pre-processing too so will have a few things to compare when they're all done!

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by HansKeesom » Sun Jun 09, 2013 2:12 pm

I will render it the way you selected in the .pano file. If your want I can do some detection and choose my own settings too as an extra. Maybe we should wait for first results first ;-)
Regards, Hans Keesom
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by MartinKS » Sun Jun 09, 2013 2:40 pm

Thanks, let's have a look at the first results and see what we can do :)

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by HansKeesom » Sun Jun 09, 2013 4:00 pm

Done, 1 GB is uploading towards you, might take 12 hours before all files are back with you

C:/fdrive/Panorama\[Group 0]-DSC_2574_DSC_2816-237 images.psd ( 106 MB )

237 images
Size: 6140 x 4563
FOVRMS: 2.40
Lens: Standard
Projection: Spherical
Color: LDR


---------------------------------------------------------------------
Total benchmark time: 8 min:2 s
---------------------------------------------------------------------
Computer description
Operating System : Microsoft Windows 7 64-bit SP1 | WORKSTATIONX79
CPU Description : Intel(R) Core(TM) i7-3930K CPU @ 3.20GHz
CPU cores : 12 used / 12 total
Memory total : 32 GB
Memory used : 25.1 GB
---------------------------------------------------------------------
Optimization benchmark: 51.6898 ms
Local approach: 0 ns
First optimization: 0 ns
Final optimization: 0 ns
LDC/MV: 0 ns
---------------------------------------------------------------------
Previewing benchmark: 897.632 ms
ComputePosition: 111.297 ms
RenderPieces: 0 ns
ColorEq: 0 ns
Blending: 0 ns
---------------------------------------------------------------------
Rendering benchmark: 8 min:1 s
Initialization: 147.99 ms
Warping: 1 min:22 s
Cutting: 52.6501 s
Blending: 47.4964 s
Saving: 42.0818 s
Temporary data read/write: 0 Bytes/0 Bytes
Last edited by HansKeesom on Sun Jun 09, 2013 4:02 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Regards, Hans Keesom
I stitch and render for other photographers. Price: 25 euro or less, no cure no pay. If you want to concentrate on your business let me do the stitching for you. Free TB of Dropbox space when you have more then 250 euro business a year.

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by MartinKS » Sun Jun 09, 2013 6:39 pm

Thanks very much :)

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by HansKeesom » Sun Jun 09, 2013 7:52 pm

Welcome, was not a lot of work. I hope the results are to your liking.
Last edited by HansKeesom on Sun Jun 09, 2013 7:53 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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by MartinKS » Sun Jun 09, 2013 8:05 pm

APG does a terrible job of displaying the 32 bit TIFF files... what setting changes this?



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by klausesser » Sun Jun 09, 2013 8:18 pm

MartinKS wrote:APG does a terrible job of displaying the 32 bit TIFF files... what setting changes this?

"32bit TIFF files"? For what??

best, Klaus
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by HansKeesom » Mon Jun 10, 2013 4:35 am

I assume the 32 BIT files are the result of stacking 9 photos. I think you followed the advice "to process your bracketed shots in Photomatix, Oloneo or so BEFORE stitching them. Save them as TIFFs and import them into APG."

I think you are better of trying to use the HDR function of photoshop to make the 9 files you received from me into an nice result
Last edited by HansKeesom on Mon Jun 10, 2013 5:00 am, edited 1 time in total.
Regards, Hans Keesom
I stitch and render for other photographers. Price: 25 euro or less, no cure no pay. If you want to concentrate on your business let me do the stitching for you. Free TB of Dropbox space when you have more then 250 euro business a year.

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by klausesser » Mon Jun 10, 2013 10:20 am

HansKeesom wrote:I assume the 32 BIT files are the result of stacking 9 photos. I think you followed the advice "to process your bracketed shots in Photomatix, Oloneo or so BEFORE stitching them. Save them as TIFFs and import them into APG."

I think you are better of trying to use the HDR function of photoshop to make the 9 files you received from me into an nice result

Processing bracketed shots in Photomatix BEFORE stitching has nothing to do with this issue. But saving them as 32bit/TIFF for stitching makes no sense at all.
Either they need to be saved as .exr/.hdr - these are 32bit/ch and CAN be stitched, if you need data-outup for IBL - or as 8/16bit/ch TIFFs. These can be stitched also.
I doubt that 32bit/chTIFF can be stitched in APG.

The "HDR function" in Photoshop is rather basic compared to Photomatix or Oloneo.

Besides NEEDING "real" HDR - with is 32bit/ch .exr or .hdr - for IBL in 3D applications there´s absolutely NO SENSE to deal with 32bit/ch for stitching.

Klaus
Last edited by klausesser on Mon Jun 10, 2013 10:24 am, edited 1 time in total.
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by MartinKS » Mon Jun 10, 2013 8:48 pm

Sorry, but when you import a bracketed stack into photoshop you end up with a 32 bit file. I've always used either Tiff or PSD files for saving these raw images, and thought that since APG read them it might read them properly.
The HDR functionality in photoshop is adaquate for my needs, and the added features in Photomatix or Oloneo aren't worth me buying a licence or learning how to use new software. I'll export .exr or .hdr files though.

All that said - would you all have processed into 8bit standard tiff files?

Hans - I'll download and use the images you've rendered now, thank you, but I also need to make sure I can do this on my own next time :)

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by klausesser » Mon Jun 10, 2013 9:44 pm

MartinKS wrote:All that said - would you all have processed into 8bit standard tiff files?

Depends on what you need them for.
If you need an equirectangular image for IBL: use .hdr or .exr both are 32bit/ch FP data.
If you need them for usual photographic work use 8 bit/TIFF
If you want to intensively retouch or correct colors/density/contrast or and saturation use 16bit TIFF.

So i usually use to save HDR-processed and tonemapped images as 16bit/TIFF for importing them to APG.
Photomatix provides masking tools for ghosts which works very well.

best, Klaus
Simplicity is the keynote of all true elegance. Coco Chanel

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