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klausesser
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by klausesser » Wed Jun 12, 2013 1:22 pm

Artisan S. wrote:What I would like Klaus, is a Panoneed (or any motorised mount) downscaled for my needs....a Panoneed M 4/3 so to speak. My longest lens is a 200 mm on an OM-D (400 mm FF equivalent) and that sort of gives me a nodal point of 15 cm between the cameramount and the NNP of the lens and the total combination weighs in at 850 grams. So a 20 cm vertical/10 cm horizontal freedom motorised mount would do for all my Panoneeds. Now that would be a mount with a USP (Unique Selling Point), since all mirrorless camera users would be more then happy. Building smaller probably also means building simpler and lighter since less weight means less talk so smaller motors can be used. Lets say under 1500 grams. Even plastic 3D printed parts would do in fact. Now the Panoneed is foldable right? That is also a great way of making things smaller.

Greets, Ed.

Hi Ed!

I understand that demand of course. Accompanying Josef as a photographer testing the Panoneed over two years during the developenment we also thought about how to make it smaller.
But motors, worm-gears, accus have their needed size! And we had in mind a head which is remarkablly more affordable than other programmable heads - without sacrifying any
functionality, stability, usability and reliability.

Compared to the very sophisticated Rodeon the Panoneed is somewhat slower and definitely less elegant . . according to some :D . On the other hand it´s about half the price . .

Developing a GOOD programmable head just for compact-cameras wouldn´t be a wise decision - these camera are rather unreliable in terms of controlling and NPP-settings.

Have in mind that the NPP shifts in a zoom - most compact-cameras have ONLY a zoom. Another point is the image-quality. And the fact that you NEED manual focusing shooting panos.

So i don´t think you will find a - good - head for other cameras than DSLRs.

best, Klaus

Sorry - i misunderstood your camera being a compact . . . am not familiar with Olympus.
Last edited by klausesser on Wed Jun 12, 2013 1:24 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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by crazyjester900 » Thu Jun 13, 2013 4:55 am

Just a quick one.

with one or two tripods setup outside the car.

Whats the best way to attach the camera to the monopod?

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by klausesser » Thu Jun 13, 2013 11:25 am

crazyjester900 wrote:Just a quick one.

with one or two tripods setup outside the car.

Whats the best way to attach the camera to the monopod?

Look at the photographs from Jook Leung - it´s a very small L-bracket.
http://public.fotki.com/haroldro/360-panoramic-photo/04810030.html#media

Klaus
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by mediavets » Thu Jun 13, 2013 11:57 am

klausesser wrote:
crazyjester900 wrote:Just a quick one.

with one or two tripods setup outside the car.

Whats the best way to attach the camera to the monopod?

Look at the photographs from Jook Leung - it´s a very small L-bracket.
http://public.fotki.com/haroldro/360-panoramic-photo/04810030.html#media

Klaus

With a Sigma 8mm fisheye on a cropped sensor body - which is what I think we see here? - you could use the Nodal Ninja U-R10 (or U-R1) and the appropriate adapter to attach directly to a monopod.

http://shop.nodalninja.com/ultimate-r1-r10-series/
Andrew Stephens
Many different Nodal Ninja and Agnos pano heads. Merlin/Panogear mount with Papywizard on Nokia Internet tablets.
Nikon D5100 and D40, Sigma 8mm f3.5 FE, Nikon 10.5mm FE, 35mm, 50mm, 18-55mm, 70-210mm. Promote control.

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by klausesser » Thu Jun 13, 2013 1:16 pm

mediavets wrote:
klausesser wrote:
crazyjester900 wrote:Just a quick one.

with one or two tripods setup outside the car.

Whats the best way to attach the camera to the monopod?

Look at the photographs from Jook Leung - it´s a very small L-bracket.
http://public.fotki.com/haroldro/360-panoramic-photo/04810030.html#media

Klaus

With a Sigma 8mm fisheye on a cropped sensor body - which is what I think we see here? - you could use the Nodal Ninja U-R10 (or U-R1) and the appropriate adapter to attach directly to a monopod.

http://shop.nodalninja.com/ultimate-r1-r10-series/

Yes - but a simple L-bracket does it also fine, as Jook shows, and is definitely cheaper. :cool:
To me it rather looks like a 5D/5D2. (see the form of the prism).

best, Klaus
Simplicity is the keynote of all true elegance. Coco Chanel

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by crazyjester900 » Fri Jun 14, 2013 2:46 am

I am unable to see how it attaches in this shot.
http://public.fotki.com/haroldro/360-panoramic-photo/04810030.html#media

is he using something like this:
Image
connected with an L bracket?

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by mediavets » Fri Jun 14, 2013 8:23 am

I think he's just using some combination of simple brackets.

But you could use the Nodal Ninja U-R10 or U-R1 as I mentioned previously - if you have a suitable camera body + fisheye lens combination.

These ring-style pano heads were not developed until some years after that photo was taken.
Andrew Stephens
Many different Nodal Ninja and Agnos pano heads. Merlin/Panogear mount with Papywizard on Nokia Internet tablets.
Nikon D5100 and D40, Sigma 8mm f3.5 FE, Nikon 10.5mm FE, 35mm, 50mm, 18-55mm, 70-210mm. Promote control.

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by klausesser » Fri Jun 14, 2013 1:21 pm

crazyjester900 wrote:I am unable to see how it attaches in this shot.
http://public.fotki.com/haroldro/360-panoramic-photo/04810030.html#media

is he using something like this:
[url]http://i430.photobucket.com/albums/qq24/crazyjester900/ScreenShot2013-06-14at114523AM_zps1f490070.png[/url]
connected with an L bracket?

See here:
http://www.manfrotto.de/product/79413.48426.78480.0.0/MS050M4-Q2/_/L-Schiene_Q2_%28200PL%29

i did it with an earlier and smaller L-brackt from Manfrotto as seen it the pictur below:

Klaus


Last edited by klausesser on Fri Jun 14, 2013 2:16 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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by crazyjester900 » Mon Jun 17, 2013 1:32 am

Have you used one straight bracket and one L bracket?

That looks good
Last edited by crazyjester900 on Mon Jun 17, 2013 5:05 am, edited 1 time in total.

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by klausesser » Mon Jun 17, 2013 4:22 pm

crazyjester900 wrote:Have you used one straight bracket and one L bracket?

That looks good

I used a slim L-bracket from which the short part is srewed to the boom.
You can see the long part under the camera.

best, Klaus
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by Artisan S. » Mon Jun 17, 2013 7:02 pm

Klaus said,

>definitely less elegant . . according to some<

Beauty is in the eye of the beholder and I must say I like the butch look of the Panoneed. Now what I found on the web was this baby:

http://vimeo.com/55333789

and I'm thinking to myself that I could buy the rails and the motors and design a control box myself (I'm a analist/coder at heart so I should be able to concoct something functional since the algorithms for stearing a panaramic head are not that difficult and most of them are supplied in the public domain anyway). I'm thinking along the lines of an Arduino or Raspberry Pi as a cheap controller. And no worries Klaus I'll build only one so your freind in Kaarst (near the Ikea?) may rest assured :-). Now I have no experience in robotics and it's anyway due time I got some :-).

Greets, Ed.

And no a Fuji GX680 is no compact camera :-), by no means and the OM-D is same micro 4/3 camera that Leifs uses and for these smaller camera's most professional (oops high quality) motorized head are simply overengineered since I need a head that is a compact and light as the camera or else it makes no sense. (a head that stays at home is of no use to me).
Last edited by Artisan S. on Mon Jun 17, 2013 7:10 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Fear leads to anger, anger leads to hate, hate leads to... suffering (c) Yoda.....

Olympus OM-D with HLD-6, Fuji GX680, Samyang 7.5, Olympus 9-18, Sigma 19, Panasonic 14-45, Nikon 50 1.4 on Novoflex with tripod mount, Nikon 80-200, Panasonic 45-200, Fujinon 135, Fujinon 80, Fujinon 65, Fujinon 50, Gitzo Gilux Reporter 2, Sirui Ballhead and Panosaurus 2.0 NNP adapter, Arduino Uno.

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by leifs » Mon Jun 17, 2013 11:11 pm

Artisan S. wrote:since I need a head that is a compact and light as the camera or else it makes no sense. (a head that stays at home is of no use to me).

I agree very much :)
I shoot panos in the mountains and carry the equipment for hours, typically 6-9 hours. Summer and winter.
I'm very happy with the VRdrive2, there is almost nothing left to the wishlist. But even though I've stripped it down for mountaineering it weighs in at 2.7kg.
Add the weight of the pole/tripod, camera and lenses. And then there are all the other equipment, food and clothes.

Therefore I've chosen a lightweight high quality camera and lens combo. But I would like to see a head like the VRdrive2 at 1.0kg !
When there is one tell me. I will buy it !

leifs
Olympus OM-D E-M1, Leica 25mm f1.4, fisheye, zooms, primes
Seitz VRdrive2
2x Intel Xeon E5-2660, 128GB RAM, Win7 64bit, SSD RAIDs

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by crazyjester900 » Tue Jun 18, 2013 12:03 am

The 2 red arrow are the red bracket yes?

What is the yellow one?

Image

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by klausesser » Tue Jun 18, 2013 12:33 pm

crazyjester900 wrote:The 2 red arrow are the red bracket yes?

What is the yellow one?

[url]http://i430.photobucket.com/albums/qq24/crazyjester900/arrow_zpsf109704e.jpg[/url]

From the pole´s srew you need to match the distance to set the NPP to meet the rotation-axis of the pole. So there´s a little bracket to which the l-bracket is screwed on.
This litte bracket is also from Manfrotto - http://www.teamworkphoto.com/manfrotto-143bkt-camera-bracket-magic-p-11716.html



best, Klaus
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by crazyjester900 » Wed Jun 19, 2013 6:47 am

Perfect,

Thank you

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by klausesser » Wed Jun 19, 2013 2:07 pm

leifs wrote:But I would like to see a head like the VRdrive2 at 1.0kg !
When there is one tell me. I will buy it !

I sure think it´s possible to have such a lightweight-version . . . but that means you need to buy two heads:
a lightweight one of 1kg and a normal one with 4kg.

The light one most unlikely would take more than 85mm lenses providing enough stability for windy days even then.
Ths normal weighted one for all lenses up to 800mm.

Regarding the price of a VR2 with cables and accus i guess the price for both heads together would mean about 5-6000.-€.
I doubt a lightweigt VR2 could be cheaper than the normal version.
I also doubt it´s possible to build such a head of 1kg without using motors and gears - strong enough for good precision - of rather special kind. Those are VERY expensive.

And all that for saving about 2kg?? :cool:

best, Klaus

PS: why don´t you ask Seitz for having such a head?
Last edited by klausesser on Wed Jun 19, 2013 2:08 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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by scobra » Mon Jun 24, 2013 9:11 pm

Sometimes it's worth the effort to shoot a classic car interior. This is one of my favourites, maybe you could ask the photographer how he managed to shoot it, note its large size: 0.23 gigapixels http://gigapan.com/gigapans/77835

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by Artisan S. » Tue Jun 25, 2013 7:27 pm

Well Klaus, the head I'm working with weighs about 2.5 kg (and that without the 200 gram of electronics I'm adding). Lucky I'am that

A: I can code
B: Code does not add weight :-).

>I also doubt it´s possible to build such a head of 1kg without using motors and gears - strong enough for good precision - of rather special kind. Those are VERY expensive.<

Eh, Klaus wasn't that more or less what the Wright Brothers and mr. Weisskopf (to remind us all of a stuborn German) were told about 110 years ago regarding powered flight :)? Or as mr. Fischer (my childhood hero) once said, never underestimate the power of the creative lazyness (die schà¶pferische Faulheit).

By the way Klaus, indeed a lightweight head can't replace a fully functional Rodeon, but in most situations I don't need (or indeed can use) a fully functional Rodeon (or Seitz). So a lightweigt head (lets say 1.5 kg) would be great for most of my uses (not for creating a 400 Gpixel London or Paris panorama but frankly, I see no real value in these endeavours anyway). But a run of the mill < 1 Gpixel sphere should be easy sailing for the lightweight head. And a 200 mm (400 mm FF equivalent) picture at 60.000 x 40.000 pixels as well. That won't set world records but it will allow me to expand my camera a lot. That to me, is much more important. But having said that I'm a good software engineer but a (sort off) lousy mechanic (more or less Ikea level) but I have some connections in the family.

Greets, Ed.
Last edited by Artisan S. on Tue Jun 25, 2013 7:38 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Fear leads to anger, anger leads to hate, hate leads to... suffering (c) Yoda.....

Olympus OM-D with HLD-6, Fuji GX680, Samyang 7.5, Olympus 9-18, Sigma 19, Panasonic 14-45, Nikon 50 1.4 on Novoflex with tripod mount, Nikon 80-200, Panasonic 45-200, Fujinon 135, Fujinon 80, Fujinon 65, Fujinon 50, Gitzo Gilux Reporter 2, Sirui Ballhead and Panosaurus 2.0 NNP adapter, Arduino Uno.

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by vklaffehn » Tue Jun 25, 2013 7:38 pm

Hi!
Have to put my MiniPanoBot on the letter scale :-) It has only two parts which doesnt get along with my Nikon D40, because there is only some superglue to hold them together :-)
Have to try to shoot a panorama inside my Volvo V70 ...

MfG
Volker Klaffehn

P.S.: Shot with a compact camera, Canon Powetshot A590is

http://www.kolor.com/forum/t17985-r.a.w-salbke-little-planet

By the way, I think a compact camera with a small sensor is quite good to shot interior panoramas (although you need enough light), because the range where the image is sharp and in focus is much larger, ideally you could use a pinhole camera, no depth of focus, everything at every distance will be sharp.
Last edited by vklaffehn on Tue Jun 25, 2013 7:50 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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by Artisan S. » Wed Jun 26, 2013 10:47 am

Well spoken Volker....small is beautifull.....maybe I'll build one for my old LX3 as well....just for fun, make it pockitable....a tabletop motorized panorobot. Oh, **** that has allready been invented for the iPhone and the GoPro :),

Greets, Ed.
Fear leads to anger, anger leads to hate, hate leads to... suffering (c) Yoda.....

Olympus OM-D with HLD-6, Fuji GX680, Samyang 7.5, Olympus 9-18, Sigma 19, Panasonic 14-45, Nikon 50 1.4 on Novoflex with tripod mount, Nikon 80-200, Panasonic 45-200, Fujinon 135, Fujinon 80, Fujinon 65, Fujinon 50, Gitzo Gilux Reporter 2, Sirui Ballhead and Panosaurus 2.0 NNP adapter, Arduino Uno.

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by Artisan S. » Wed Jun 26, 2013 10:51 am

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pDCSkoZn1xA

MiniPanoBot...............I say "CUTE"..........................love it, wanna hug it! What steppers did you use?

Greets, Ed.
Fear leads to anger, anger leads to hate, hate leads to... suffering (c) Yoda.....

Olympus OM-D with HLD-6, Fuji GX680, Samyang 7.5, Olympus 9-18, Sigma 19, Panasonic 14-45, Nikon 50 1.4 on Novoflex with tripod mount, Nikon 80-200, Panasonic 45-200, Fujinon 135, Fujinon 80, Fujinon 65, Fujinon 50, Gitzo Gilux Reporter 2, Sirui Ballhead and Panosaurus 2.0 NNP adapter, Arduino Uno.

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by vklaffehn » Wed Jun 26, 2013 11:24 am

Hi!
Here you can see the interior of that version of my minipanobot, although it's already disassembled....

http://www.roboternetz.de/community/threads/33122-Vollautomatischer-Panoramakopf-%28Prototyp%29-%28update-13-3-09%29?p=396175&viewfull=1#post396175

Steppers were from www.pollin.de, from old scanners, I paid 2,95€ for each motor :-)

MfG
Volker

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by Adrian Salisbury » Mon Jul 01, 2013 2:16 pm

You CAN shoot these interiors with a manual head, I've done it before by pointing in through the window and as mentioned above, cut a new view in after. By doing that you'll never have to worry about the nadir (base) shot as you'll be cutting the whole window anyway. The skill comes in trying to stitch the tour when it's so close to the camera, you really dont have much room for error. I'd recommend shooting several laps so you have a backup or two.
Personally I always shoot bracketed shots in this situation so lighting is less of an issue.

In response to #10:
Its a hard market for sure... One would have thought that a motor home selling for 3/4 of a Mil $$ would pay but nope.. They are as stupid and tight as most of the others.. They would rather rely on an iPhone camera add-on... basically giving little value to the gear, skills and software you need to do it properly..

I agree it's hard but not impossible to get this business. Many customers I aproach are doing their own thing as you say but I still work with 5 caravan/motorhome companies that realise the vaue of these tours, here's a few examples.

http://vantage.smartvirtualtours.com/sol/
http://horizon.uk-virtualtours.co.uk/
http://devonconversions.uk-virtualtours.co.uk/sapphire-u.htm

Hope that helps, I am just new on here today and don't want to contradict what's been said, just giving another view. I personally dont like the motorised systems as I like to compose each view and see what's going in as I shoot it... and they're a lot of money lol!

Good forum btw.
Thanks,

Adrian Salisbury
www.smartvirtualtours.com (formerly OpticalFX)

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by ronwillium00 » Sun Jul 07, 2013 8:34 am

Thank you for the post.It will be helpful for us.

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