5DMKii and Sigma 8mm Spherical Fisheyes  

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5DMKii and Sigma 8mm Spherical Fisheyes

by oreo5000 » Mon Jul 02, 2012 10:51 pm

Hi Guys,
I'm having difficulty getting Autopano Giga to correctly stitch interior shots from my spherical fisheye's, they stitch and I get a good global RMS but I always seem to have breaks in my vertical lines. Any advice would really be appreciated.

I am using a Sigma 8mm f/3.5 DX on a 5DMKii. I have the nodal point set to where the gold band around the lens is.
Im using a Agnos Mrotator TCP short with a RingT.

I am currently shooting three shots angled 5 degress downwards and one up shot.

Thanks in advance!

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by klausesser » Mon Jul 02, 2012 10:56 pm

oreo5000 wrote:I am using a Sigma 8mm f/3.5 DX on a 5DMKii.

Please correct me if i´m wrong: i guess an 8mm DX lens can´t work on a fullframe (FX) camera.

What works is a 10,5mm Nikon DX-fisheye when it gets "shaved".

best, Klaus
Last edited by klausesser on Mon Jul 02, 2012 10:58 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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by oreo5000 » Mon Jul 02, 2012 11:00 pm

Hi Klaus,
Thanks for the reply.
It does ineed work, you end up woth a complete circular image. This allows you to shoot only 3 frames around because there is enough overlap! However you do sacrifice resolution because it only covers a small area of the frame.

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by mediavets » Mon Jul 02, 2012 11:00 pm

oreo5000 wrote:Hi Guys,
I'm having difficulty getting Autopano Giga to correctly stitch interior shots from my spherical fisheye's, they stitch and I get a good global RMS but I always seem to have breaks in my vertical lines. Any advice would really be appreciated.

I am using a Sigma 8mm f/3.5 DX on a 5DMKii. I have the nodal point set to where the gold band around the lens is.
Im using a Agnos Mrotator TCP short with a RingT.

Do you think you have the lower rail set correctly? See:

http://www.easypano.com/forum/display_topic_threads.asp?ForumID=1&TopicID=4162

I am currently shooting three shots angled 5 degrees downwards and one up shot.

Thanks in advance!

Try shooting 3-around at +7 degrees - that should cover the zenith and leave a smallish 'hole' to patch at the nadir.

..........

If you'd like to make a sample set of images available online as ZIP file for download I'd be happy to take a look at them and try a stitch.
Last edited by mediavets on Mon Jul 02, 2012 11:02 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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by oreo5000 » Mon Jul 02, 2012 11:09 pm

Thanks mediavets. I'll give that a go.
I also have a Nodal Ninja 3 available to me. Which in your experience is better to use. The NN3 or Mrotator + RingT?
My RingT actually prevents the focus ring from rotating, is this right or should'nt it be that far over?

Thanks again

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by klausesser » Mon Jul 02, 2012 11:40 pm

oreo5000 wrote:Hi Klaus,
Thanks for the reply.
It does ineed work, you end up woth a complete circular image. This allows you to shoot only 3 frames around because there is enough overlap! However you do sacrifice resolution because it only covers a small area of the frame.

Hi Oreo!

Yes - i used an 8-15mm Canon FE @8mm and did 3 shots with the camera set diagonal. Didn´t think it works with a DX 8mm.

But as you mentioned: too much loss of resolution. And regarding the time: i shoot 5+1 and get 35000px width. Takes me about 15-25 sec using a manual head.

best, Klaus
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by oreo5000 » Mon Jul 02, 2012 11:43 pm

Thanks Klaus
What setup are you using?

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by mediavets » Mon Jul 02, 2012 11:51 pm

oreo5000 wrote:Thanks mediavets. I'll give that a go.
I also have a Nodal Ninja 3 available to me. Which in your experience is better to use. The NN3 or Mrotator + RingT?

Either should be OK if as the camera/lens will fit on the pano head.

My RingT actually prevents the focus ring from rotating, is this right or should'nt it be that far over?

Thanks again

I'm sorry I don't know as I've never seen a RingT in the 'flesh'.

Does it matter anyway - the depth of field of that lens is such that you should not need to adjust the focus.
Last edited by mediavets on Mon Jul 02, 2012 11:51 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Nikon D5100 and D40, Sigma 8mm f3.5 FE, Nikon 10.5mm FE, 35mm, 50mm, 18-55mm, 70-210mm. Promote control.

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by oreo5000 » Mon Jul 02, 2012 11:55 pm

Focus will be locked off at infinity@F8 so I'm not concerned about using it, I just meant is the RingT supposed to be that far over, I'm guessing it does in order to achieve the nodal point, I just figured it might be designed to slide on and stop exactly at the nodal point for that particular lens.

With regards to your first comment about pointing 7 degrees down, and shooting one up, with that be enough coverage to stitch the up shot?

Also should I be doing anything specific in Autopano Giga, im basically just dropping them in, hitting detect and then chaning the projection to spherical

thanks again!

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by klausesser » Tue Jul 03, 2012 12:02 am

oreo5000 wrote:Thanks Klaus
What setup are you using?

Hi!

5D2, Nikon 35mm, Manfrotto SPH (modified) for manual shooting, Panoneed programmable head for bigger panos and mosaics.

best, Klaus
Simplicity is the keynote of all true elegance. Coco Chanel

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by mediavets » Tue Jul 03, 2012 12:11 am

oreo5000 wrote:Focus will be locked off at infinity@F8 so I'm not concerned about using it,

Infinity is probably not the ideal setting.

I just meant is the RingT supposed to be that far over, I'm guessing it does in order to achieve the nodal point, I just figured it might be designed to slide on and stop exactly at the nodal point for that particular lens.

Don't know - ask Agno's.

With regards to your first comment about pointing 7 degrees down, and shooting one up, with that be enough coverage to stitch the up shot?

I suggested shooting 3-around at plus seven (+7) degrees pitch not 'pointing 7 degrees down'. Then you should not need a zenith/up shot.

Why did you choose a Sigma 8mm f3,5 fisheye for use with a fullframe sensor body anymway? - it seems far from an ideal combination for shooting panos.

Also should I be doing anything specific in Autopano Giga, im basically just dropping them in, hitting detect and then chaning the projection to spherical

thanks again!

APG should identify the 8mm as a fisheye, you should check that it does and that the crop circle is placed correctly in Image Properties.

Is the Preferred projection not Spherical by default?

If not change the default projection and consider changing the default Preferred extend to Max. projection range that will ensure you get a 360x180 pano FOV despite not having image coverage at the nadir.

After detection you should open the pano image in the Panorama Editor and check the quality of the links in te Control Point Editor and edit as appropriate.

As I suggested if you place an image set online as a ZIP file for download I'd be happy to take a look and see why you may be having stitching problems.
Last edited by mediavets on Tue Jul 03, 2012 12:14 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Nikon D5100 and D40, Sigma 8mm f3.5 FE, Nikon 10.5mm FE, 35mm, 50mm, 18-55mm, 70-210mm. Promote control.

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by oreo5000 » Tue Jul 03, 2012 12:17 am

I read that infinity @ F8 allows everything from 10cm to inifnity to be in focus with this lens, is that incorrect?

Ah ok, but then I'd need a down shot right?

I didnt choose them, it's someone elses equipment that I'm trying to make the best use of. I understand how much resolution is being wasted and how poor that lens is, but it's all I have access to at the moment.

Thanks for the help, I'll give all this a go and drop you some files if I'm still having problems I'll upload the images for you, really appreciate it!

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by mediavets » Tue Jul 03, 2012 12:29 am

oreo5000 wrote:I read that infinity @ F8 allows everything from 10cm to inifnity to be in focus with this lens, is that incorrect?

The scale markings are typically inaccurate and you should do some test shots to determine optimal focus setting.

Ah ok, but then I'd need a down shot right?

You will always need to decide what you are going to do about the 'footprint' of the pano head and tripod at the nadir.

You could cover it with a patch or logo image. You could patch it using an image editor. Yo could use teh crop too, in Panotour pro to limit the field of view...

I didnt choose them, it's someone elses equipment that I'm trying to make the best use of. I understand how much resolution is being wasted and how poor that lens is, but it's all I have access to at the moment.

There's nothing wrong with the Sigma 8mm f3.5 lens lens, it's just not an ideal choice for use with a fullframe sensor boidy to shoot panos.

You could probaby sell it for a good price and get a fullframe fisheye; or keep the Sigma 8mm and get a used crop sensor body - perhaps a 550D - to go with it.

Thanks for the help, I'll give all this a go and drop you some files if I'm still having problems I'll upload the images for you, really appreciate it!

Good luck. You will get there in the end ... these things take a liitle time to learn.
Last edited by mediavets on Tue Jul 03, 2012 12:38 am, edited 1 time in total.
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by oreo5000 » Tue Jul 03, 2012 12:37 am

Thanks mediavets,
basically I need maximum carpet, it doesnt matter about the tripod being visible as this will be retouched out, but wouldnt it make more sense to shoot downwards and take an upshot as i am currently doing? Otherwise if I shoot looking upwards and then shoot a single down shot won't I end up with my pano head arm visible?

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by mediavets » Tue Jul 03, 2012 12:51 am

oreo5000 wrote:Thanks mediavets,
basically I need maximum carpet, it doesnt matter about the tripod being visible as this will be retouched out, but wouldnt it make more sense to shoot downwards and take an upshot as i am currently doing?

Try it and see how large the nadir 'hole' is.

I could also say 'who cares about looking at carpet under their feet anyway?'. If you don't then simply limit the VFOV using the crop tool in Panotiour pro, or apply a nadir patch image (perhaps a client logo) in PTP to cover the nadir 'hole' and tripod foot print.

Otherwise if I shoot looking upwards and then shoot a single down shot won't I end up with my pano head arm visible?

Not if you move it out of the way - see the nadir adapter for NN3/4/5 pano heads:

http://store.nodalninja.com/index.php/nadir-adapter-for-nn3-nn4-nn5.html

If you prefer to shoot zenith/up shot then so be it, but it see no need to pitch down very much if at all because you risk getting spurious control points being set on the pano head and tripod which can muck up your stitching, and be careful to ensure that you have sufficient matching features to allow the stitcher to link the zenith/up shot to the main row - this can be a problem with 'featureless' ceilings in rooms with same coloured plain walls.
Last edited by mediavets on Tue Jul 03, 2012 1:01 am, edited 1 time in total.
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by klausesser » Tue Jul 03, 2012 11:50 am

oreo5000 wrote:Thanks mediavets,
basically I need maximum carpet, it doesnt matter about the tripod being visible as this will be retouched out, but wouldnt it make more sense to shoot downwards and take an upshot as i am currently doing? Otherwise if I shoot looking upwards and then shoot a single down shot won't I end up with my pano head arm visible?

Because shooting a Nadir is a bit tricky - in special with a lens that not really suit the setup - i suggest to retouch the Nadir. I do it all the time and realized that in 98% of all cases it´s faster than shooting and mountig a Nadir.
Using an optimal setting the Nadir hole is so small that it´s easy to retouch

best, Klaus
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by klausesser » Tue Jul 03, 2012 12:03 pm

5
mediavets wrote:. . but it see no need to pitch down very much if at all because you risk getting spurious control points being set on the pano head and tripod which can muck up your stitching, and be careful to ensure that you have sufficient matching features to allow the stitcher to link the zenith/up shot to the main row - this can be a problem with 'featureless' ceilings in rooms with same coloured plain walls.

Right. But in terms of keepig the Nadir-hole as small as possible i use -12° with my 15mm fisheye on fullframe. That gives me 6+Z shots @25% with my manual head and matches perfectly.
With Panoneed it´s 5+Z@20% overlap and also matches perfectly.
It´s very unlikely to get no matching with neighbour images using a fisheye - even with white walls. I had it once - in four years - with a black wall domiating the view. I choosed a suboptimal point of view.
Here i set and linked points manually.

Klaus

Nadir 15mm fisheye on 5D2 5+Z shots on Panoneed:


Last edited by klausesser on Wed Jul 11, 2012 10:18 am, edited 1 time in total.
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by mediavets » Tue Jul 03, 2012 12:08 pm

klausesser wrote:Right. But in terms of keepig the Nadir-hole as small as possible i use -12° with my 15mm fisheye on fullframe. That gives me 6+Z shots @20° with my manual head and matches perfectly.

Yes, but he has a Sigma 8mm f3.5 fisheye on his 5DMkII - that will give a circular fisheye image with I think approx. 170+ HFOV and VFOV.
Last edited by mediavets on Tue Jul 03, 2012 12:08 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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by klausesser » Tue Jul 03, 2012 12:10 pm

mediavets wrote:
klausesser wrote:Right. But in terms of keepig the Nadir-hole as small as possible i use -12° with my 15mm fisheye on fullframe. That gives me 6+Z shots @20° with my manual head and matches perfectly.

Yes, but he has a Sigma 8mm f3.5 fisheye on his 5DMkII - that will give a circulart fisheye image with I think approx. 170+ HFOV and VFOV.

;) i know - i read it. But i meant it as a more basically suggestion. I told before the DX 8mm fisheye lens doesn´t match on fullframe.

best, Klaus
Last edited by klausesser on Tue Jul 03, 2012 12:11 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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by mediavets » Tue Jul 03, 2012 12:12 pm

klausesser wrote:
mediavets wrote:
klausesser wrote:Right. But in terms of keepig the Nadir-hole as small as possible i use -12° with my 15mm fisheye on fullframe. That gives me 6+Z shots @20° with my manual head and matches perfectly.

Yes, but he has a Sigma 8mm f3.5 fisheye on his 5DMkII - that will give a circulart fisheye image with I think approx. 170+ HFOV and VFOV.

;) i know - i read it. But i meant it as a more basically suggestion. I told before the DX 8mm fisheye lens doesn´t match on fullframe.

best, Klaus

Agreed, but he didn't get to choose the kit he has to work with and he's just trying to get the best from what he's been given for now.
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Nikon D5100 and D40, Sigma 8mm f3.5 FE, Nikon 10.5mm FE, 35mm, 50mm, 18-55mm, 70-210mm. Promote control.

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by klausesser » Tue Jul 03, 2012 2:33 pm

mediavets wrote:Agreed, but he didn't get to choose the kit he has to work with and he's just trying to get the best from what he's been given for now.

Question is: how far could he get . . . :cool:

best, Klaus
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by oreo5000 » Tue Jul 10, 2012 11:46 pm

What would the ideal lens be for the 5Dmkii then?
I'm not looking for huge resolution, just accurate stitching.

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by klausesser » Wed Jul 11, 2012 12:28 am

oreo5000 wrote:What would the ideal lens be for the 5Dmkii then?
I'm not looking for huge resolution, just accurate stitching.

If 112MPx is enough for you: find a Canon 15mm Fisheye - it´s followed by the new 8-15mm fe-zoom, which is more expensive but easier to get (new) and it´s
a very good lens.

15mm is optimal for the 5D2 for average spherical panos. It´s very good for perfect stitches while they´re very fast done using a manual head - 6+1shots@25% overlap.

best, Klaus
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by klausesser » Wed Jul 11, 2012 10:16 am

Artisan S. wrote:BTW, the 15 your talking about is FF (image filling) fisheye (not like the Nikon 6 for instance wich produces a round image).

Hi Ed!

You asked for an ideal 5D2 lens - which is FF - and the 15mm FE has 180° diagonally on a 5D2.
So for average spherical panoramas it´s an ideal lens.
An 8mm produces a round image on a fullframe - so using an 8-15mm FE zoom you could use both ways.

Which 12mpx camera are you using actually?

What´s your aim anyway? How much resolution do you need for your spherical panos?

best, Klaus
Last edited by klausesser on Wed Jul 11, 2012 10:16 am, edited 1 time in total.
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by hankkarl » Tue Jul 17, 2012 8:06 pm

klausesser wrote:
mediavets wrote:
klausesser wrote:Right. But in terms of keepig the Nadir-hole as small as possible i use -12° with my 15mm fisheye on fullframe. That gives me 6+Z shots @20° with my manual head and matches perfectly.

Yes, but he has a Sigma 8mm f3.5 fisheye on his 5DMkII - that will give a circulart fisheye image with I think approx. 170+ HFOV and VFOV.

;) i know - i read it. But i meant it as a more basically suggestion. I told before the DX 8mm fisheye lens doesn´t match on fullframe.

best, Klaus

Sigma 8mm EX DG is a full frame lens, it puts the entire image circle on a FF sensor. The sigma DC series is for the crop cameras. There is no DX series.
The 8mm and 15mm are FF fisheyes and the 4.5mm DC and 10mm DC are crop fisheyes - here's the list http://www.sigmaphoto.com/shop/fisheye-lenses


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