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Sky replacement for 11 gigapixel image

PostPosted: Fri Jun 01, 2012 5:29 am
by inMotion
You may have seen my previous post about this specific pano already, but I want to explore the possibility of saving it, as the weather will be horrible for the foreseeable future and I am on a tight schedule.

I shot this gigapano without a rotating head and didn't know that I needed to have the images aligned in a set number of rows and colunms to make sure everything turned out right.

Full size is about 11 gigapixels. about 600 images didn't stitch correctly. Most of those are in the sky. Does anybody have any ideas or workflow of how to replace the sky? Can I assemble one or two columns of the sky and copy/paste it throughout the image on another layer and have APG blend it with the rest of the sky near the buildings?

PostPosted: Fri Jun 01, 2012 8:22 am
by AlexandreJ
Some questions :
- Did you shoot the sky or not ?
If yes, perhaps an xml approach with papywizard if you recorded the location would do the trick
If no, then it is complicated to adjust.
Note : if the shooting has a structure ( row x columns matrice for example ), then one idea is to check 'put all image in the panorama' flag in group property.
This will include in the panorama all image even the one that don't have any control point.
Then go to the move mode and try 'location wizard', icon with the wizard wand. It will try to guess all sky image location alone ( by guessing the shooting structure ). It does work not so badly in fact.

PostPosted: Fri Jun 01, 2012 10:54 am
by inMotion
Thanks for the advice Alexandre.

When xml with papywizard did not work at all.

Using the move mode is extreeemly unresponsive. Is that normal for a 1600 image gigapan? I have a 4.4ghz 8 core cpu, 32gb ram, 2 SSDs, and 1gb GF GFX 560.

There are like 600 images that would need to be manually placed. The wizard tool didn't work at all. Is there a trick to using it successively? It would have been nice if a traditional "wizard" style dialog box would show up with some options regarding how to place the images.

PostPosted: Fri Jun 01, 2012 10:57 am
by AlexandreJ
inMotion wrote:When xml with papywizard did not work at all.

Just for confirmation : you did shoot in XML mode ?

If yes, please have a look at that tutorial : http://www.autopano.net/wiki-en/action/view/Troubleshooting_Papywizard_Cases

PostPosted: Fri Jun 01, 2012 11:29 am
by klausesser
AlexandreJ wrote:
inMotion wrote:When xml with papywizard did not work at all.

Just for confirmation : you did shoot in XML mode ?

If yes, please have a look at that tutorial : http://www.autopano.net/wiki-en/action/view/Troubleshooting_Papywizard_Cases

Hi Alexandre!

He wrote:
"I shot this gigapano without a rotating head and didn't know that I needed to have the images aligned in a set number of rows and colunms to make sure everything turned out right."
Whatever that could mean . . :cool:

So i think he didn´t use xml.

best, Klaus

PostPosted: Fri Jun 01, 2012 11:29 am
by inMotion
No, i didn't shoot in XML mode. The panogear head was stuck in customs until 2 days ago, and the weather has been horrible - so i can't reshoot now. I shot manually each exposure myself, which is also why there is an inconsistent number of images per row.

PostPosted: Fri Jun 01, 2012 11:40 am
by klausesser
inMotion wrote:You may have seen my previous post about this specific pano already, but I want to explore the possibility of saving it, as the weather will be horrible for the foreseeable future and I am on a tight schedule.

I shot this gigapano without a rotating head and didn't know that I needed to have the images aligned in a set number of rows and colunms to make sure everything turned out right.

Full size is about 11 gigapixels. about 600 images didn't stitch correctly. Most of those are in the sky. Does anybody have any ideas or workflow of how to replace the sky? Can I assemble one or two columns of the sky and copy/paste it throughout the image on another layer and have APG blend it with the rest of the sky near the buildings?

As Alexandre already mentioned: Did you use the option "all images in the same panorama" and the wizard?

If nothing works out stitch-wise: try Photoshop. It´s rather complicated, but you might be able to make a selection of the sky-part beginning at the buildings and to fake the sky by using some picture/pano you shoot sperately.
I did that several times and i worked well - you "just" need to mask-out the part very precisely because of the very large scaling.

Use a sky-image which looks like the sky in your pano colorwise - it´s easier to mask-out the buildings then. Use a feathered selection with 1px - not wider. It gives smoother edges than a sharp selection using 0pix.

If you want i can assist you by mail. Photoshop definitely can do it - but as said needs some skills.

best, Klaus

PostPosted: Fri Jun 01, 2012 12:34 pm
by [bo]
Don't know about the sky, but the ground is disturbingly overshapened and overhdred... Also, I think this is the first time I've seen someone on those forums shoot thousands of images by hand (ie without some robo-help)! Amazing patience!

PostPosted: Fri Jun 01, 2012 12:56 pm
by inMotion
yeah, over sharpened and overHDRed is correct, and in this case, intentional.

after we shot these images, we were exhausted. we took turns, each person did a row. a row took around 10-15 min to shoot.

PostPosted: Fri Jun 01, 2012 1:32 pm
by mediavets
inMotion wrote:No, i didn't shoot in XML mode. The panogear head was stuck in customs until 2 days ago, and the weather has been horrible - so i can't reshoot now. I shot manually each exposure myself, which is also why there is an inconsistent number of images per row.

How about duplicating some sky images so that there are the same number of images per row, renaming the image series as necessary so that the filenames are sequential, and then applying a Papywizard generated XML data file?

PostPosted: Fri Jun 01, 2012 1:48 pm
by klausesser
'[bo wrote:']Also, I think this is the first time I've seen someone on those forums shoot thousands of images by hand (ie without some robo-help)! Amazing patience!

Julian Kalmar shot his amazing Vienna 50gigapixel using a manual head:

http://photoartkalmar.com/Photoart%20Kalmar%20high%20res/Gigapixel/Vienna%2050%20Gigapixel/Donauturm.html

best, Klaus

PostPosted: Fri Jun 01, 2012 5:21 pm
by AlexandreJ
Note : our Paris 26 gigapixels project with 2346 images were stitch manually too with the described workflow.
- 1600 images well located, some adjustment on wrong CPs
- using this wizard, a lot of image were then well located
- then the image move mode to adjust all out-of-focus images in rows by using multiple selection

PostPosted: Fri Jun 01, 2012 10:57 pm
by lumelix
@ bo: I shoot some panos with more than 1400 images manualy in 2010. I use my Arca-Head with a special scale on it for a more or less regular overlap
and move the camera with 600mm tele manually. Did this in less than one hour, faster than most motorized pano heads. But it's really a ordeal!

I think, inMotion haven 't do his pano this way and haven't the possibility I have told him, using the Gigapan Import Wizard.

@ inMotion: You can clone the sky upwards to the edge of the pano, using several image editors (eg. Photoshop).
But the problem is the size of this image. It's to big to work on it in one piece for most applications. So you have to cut it into subparts (-> NQ).

PostPosted: Fri Jun 01, 2012 11:30 pm
by leifs
klausesser wrote:Julian Kalmar shot his amazing Vienna 50gigapixel using a manual head:

http://photoartkalmar.com/Photoart%20Kalmar%20high%20res/Gigapixel/Vienna%2050%20Gigapixel/Donauturm.html

best, Klaus

The pano is nice, and it would be even better without the vignetting-bands in the sky.

leifs

PostPosted: Sat Jun 02, 2012 9:12 am
by inMotion
first sky attempt. it's only at 3 gigapixels unfortunately. it's still saving in PS, so this is just a printscreen from PS. will update with higher res soon.

the weather might be nice tomorrow though!!

PostPosted: Sat Jun 02, 2012 2:39 pm
by John_Sauter
I posted a sky synthesizer in 2008: see http://www.kolor.com/forum/t4515-synthesizing-the-sky. With some effort it could create an artificial sky for you.

PostPosted: Sat Jun 02, 2012 4:12 pm
by klausesser
inMotion wrote:first sky attempt. it's only at 3 gigapixels unfortunately. it's still saving in PS, so this is just a printscreen from PS. will update with higher res soon.

the weather might be nice tomorrow though!!

Yep! Well done! :-)

best, Klaus (will be back home tonight for skyping)

PostPosted: Sat Jun 02, 2012 6:19 pm
by inMotion
John_Sauter wrote:I posted a sky synthesizer in 2008: see http://www.kolor.com/forum/t4515-synthesizing-the-sky. With some effort it could create an artificial sky for you.

wow, very cool! thanks! do you have any panos you could show that you've used that for??

here is a 5k preview of the pano. going to shoot again in 7 hours!

PostPosted: Sun Jun 03, 2012 3:05 pm
by John_Sauter
inMotion wrote:wow, very cool! thanks! do you have any panos you could show that you've used that for??

Sorry, I don't. I wrote the program after having to create a sky by hand for a pano I made of Yankee Stadium, but I have not had an opportunity to actually use it.

PostPosted: Sun Jun 03, 2012 5:15 pm
by lumelix
Hi inMotion
The pano looks very nice! How have you filled in the sky in this version ?

PostPosted: Sun Jun 03, 2012 6:48 pm
by inMotion
lumelix wrote:Hi inMotion
The pano looks very nice! How have you filled in the sky in this version ?

The image resolution was 3 gigapixel, so i just opened it in photoshop, and used the magic wand selection tool to delete the old sky used some gradients. fairly simple, just really time consuming due to the resolution. (around 180,000 x 30,000 i think) every operation took quite a while. i tried several techniques, the gradient worked the best and matched the low resolution reference pano i took at 100mm after i took the 400mm. i think this is a good thing to do on all shoots. takes 5 min and can save a lot of time.

also, John_Sauter - I have noooooo idea how to use your script. :( can you give me the basic run-down?

PostPosted: Sun Jun 03, 2012 8:42 pm
by lumelix
Yes, it's a good idea. It looks really natural this way.
But when you use the XML-placement, the images in the sky shold work to.

PostPosted: Sun Jun 03, 2012 10:41 pm
by gkaefer
and on commercial side there are also some solutions, like:
http://www.pixxsel.de/fotosoftware/bildbearbeitung-plugins/nature-effects-3.0
to simulate Rain, snow, Sun, Moon and Stars, Water and Waves, lightning, Clouds, fog, haze, light to heavy cloud, Ice, ice and frost, Fire.
if you combine it with the photo zoom 4 from same page gigapixel backgrounds are no big deal...

Georg

PostPosted: Mon Jun 04, 2012 4:31 pm
by John_Sauter
inMotion wrote:also, John_Sauter - I have noooooo idea how to use your script. :( can you give me the basic run-down?

You will need to install Perl on your computer, and the Perl modules GD and Math:Random. See http://www.perl.org/get.html to get Perl if it doesn't come with your operating system, and http://www.perl.org/cpan.html for the modules.

Download the texture_gradient program referenced in http://www.kolor.com/forum/t4515-synthesizing-the-sky and run it, specifying the height, width and output file: "perl texture_gradient --width 3000 --height 30000 --verbose big_sky.png".

Unfortunately, the GD package won't handle large PNG files, so you have to truncate the width to 3000; you can use The Gimp or Adobe Photoshop to tile the image horizontally to increase the width to 180,000.

The last step is similar to what you've already done with your gradient: load the tiled big_sky image behind yours, and erase everything in your picture that should be sky. The texture_gradient program creates a sky gradient that is more realistic than the standard image manipulation gradient tools provide. It also has an advanced mode in which you can use whatever scraps of sky you have in your picture to tailor its statistics--see the documentation for --picture_dir.

I edited this response to recognize the limitations of the GD package. I really should recode the program in C so it can write large PNG files.

PostPosted: Fri Jun 08, 2012 5:23 am
by gerardm
Thanks this is a great post. John Please clean it up so we all can use it. These helpful additions keep moving everything forward.