Why the uneven result picture?  

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alexeygfi@gmail.com
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Why the uneven result picture?

by alexeygfi@gmail.com » Thu Jun 30, 2011 10:31 am

Help me understand: few lasts pano are uneven. Why? I tryed all different ballanse: hamma, exposure, color and their combination - no one get uniform picture.

Image

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DrSlony
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by DrSlony » Thu Jun 30, 2011 7:58 pm

Hey
1- your photo is too small, upload a larger version
2- make your source files available to us, using e.g. http://min.us/

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by gkaefer » Thu Jun 30, 2011 8:01 pm

how wer the settings of your cam? autofocus / av / whitebalance etc set to auto? in special WB always set to manual...
Georg

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by alexeygfi@gmail.com » Thu Jun 30, 2011 9:10 pm

I shoting with manual WB: cloudy or shade or daylight, than in Digital Photo Professional (Canon) balancing CR2 and generating Tiff

>>> make your source files available to us
:( I did'nt expect that answer and trashed photos :(
Nevermind, I have more. I'll upload another sources

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by Castillonis » Fri Jul 01, 2011 3:08 pm

You should attempt to limit the deviation in exposure and white balance by carefully checking your camera settings and not being too ambitious with the choice of the focal length when lighting is not steady and changing. Though you can repair this panorama using different methods.

1. Use the Adobe Photoshop adjustments "match color". ( It is better to match the white balance using a RAW file )

2. You can create a new layer in Adobe Photoshop with the blending mode set to "overlay" or "soft light" and fill the adjustment layer with %50 grey. You then brighten and darken areas of the image using the brush with the white ( to brighten ) and the black ( to darken ). Ensure that you reduce the percentage of the brush.

3. You can also select and copy an area of a larger layer in Photoshop to another layer. Ensure that you use the select refine to feather the selection which provides a gradient for blending. You can apply the adjustment brightness to match the brightness of the adjacent areas.

You should definitely attempt to do items 4 and 5 while capturing a panorama to avoid methods one, two and three if possible.

4. You should explore your camera settings to ensure that you do not have a setting that will override your manual settings.

5. You should limit the focal length that you use when weather is changing too quickly. Such as the sun being intermittently obscured by the clouds.

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by alexeygfi@gmail.com » Fri Jul 01, 2011 4:17 pm

Well, I uploadded another photos group:
http://min.us/mv6Mu3

I need to know: is it possible to do picture more... uniform. With soft colors and light transitions.
Because one of it: or cool sky and dark down, or cool down and too light sky. Or colored spots.

May be I want too much )) and only photoshop can make me happy =)

-----------------------------------------------------------------

My draft result (before Photoshop):
Image

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by alexeygfi@gmail.com » Fri Jul 01, 2011 4:20 pm

...and one more forget: Should I use color anchors when correct pano before rendering?
May be few of them, mey be no one? When I try it, the color spots are appearing.

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by alexeygfi@gmail.com » Fri Jul 01, 2011 4:22 pm

2 Castillonis:
thanks for answer. So, photoshop are too importen for final result?

Result of the first image of this post (after editing in photoshop): http://kp.dovidka.org/panoramas/13320/big.jpg

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by lumelix » Fri Jul 01, 2011 10:44 pm

Hello Alexey

This looks like a problem I have too with some of my gigapanos. The color correction system (CC) is not working properly and results in visible
brightness steps for some images all over the pano. Even when the single shots are very constant and no CC is needed to get a good render, this problem occurs
when using the CC.

I have post this in this forum to kolor too and send them a test image set for better explanation what the problem is.
Have a look at the sticky topic on the top in this forum
and the topic "(APG 2.5.2 W7 x64) Color correction still fails" :
http://www.kolor.com/forum/t12214-apg-2.5.2-w7-x64-color-correction-still-fails
Last edited by lumelix on Sat Jul 02, 2011 10:45 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Regards
Martin

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by mountaintb » Sat Jul 02, 2011 9:06 am

It seems that they are blending problems with 2,5........ It's not and for sure problem of exposure, WB and so on, it's blending problem with APG.

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by Castillonis » Sat Jul 02, 2011 12:59 pm

1. It is important to manually set the white balance, ISO, aperture, and shutter speed to obtain consistent exposures. There are additional camera settings in some cameras menus that may override your manual settings, so you need to learn more about your particular camera settings to ensure that these features are disabled. ( There are times when you may intentionaly may alter the exposure to surmount a problem, but this is not the typical usage and you should be cognizant that you are altering the exposure and cognizant of why you are changing it )

EDIT: An additional cause of exposure variation can be the magneticly controlled diaphragm for aperture. This problem is well documented by people who do time lapse photography and stop motion photography. They commonly use "deflickr" software to reduce the differences in exposure. They also use new and old lenses that have mechanically controller diaphragms ( versus only magnetic control ). Some Nikon lenses and manual focus Zeiss lenses have mechanically controlled diaphragms. The lenses that were manufactured after about 1997 have better anti reflective coatings for perserving good MTF characteristics. For example, the Nikon AF-S Nikkor 300mm f4 lens allows you to magnetically control the diaphragm by leaving the dial at the orange colored "32". You can fix the aperture value at 22, 16, 11, 8, 5.6, or 4. When I have mentioned this to certian people at work they demanded me to cite academic research that proves this. I am only able to direct you to a forum such as timescapes.org to see how this affects time lapse. You do lose the ability to optimally use autofocus when you control the aperture value mechanically.

2. Some weather and lighting conditions cause light and color balance ( white balance ) to change. Such as a partially cloudy day when the sun may change from obscured to not obscured during the capture of you panorama. The white balance and exposure will change when the sun is suddenly occluded by the cloud. I recommend that you capture using the RAW image format of your camera to facilitate adjusting the white balance and exposure to match adjacent photographs.

3. You need to choose a focal length that will allow you to capture the panoramic image quickly enough to avoid too many lighting changes. This also depends up how much angular area you are attempting to capture. So, if you are capturing a scene during sunset and must capture the panorama within about two minutes, the angular area and focal length will affect your ability to capture the panorama within two minutes.

4. Yes, after ensuring consistent camera exposure and making wise choices for focal length and the angular area of the composition, you should use whatever tools such as Adobe Photoshop to fix problem areas.

5. I downloaded a few photographs, but it would require too much time to download each of your files to explain how to fix these problems. It seems as if you may have had problems with the sun transitioning from a non occluded state to an occluded state ( sun covered by clouds )
Last edited by Castillonis on Sat Jul 02, 2011 2:56 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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by DrSlony » Sat Jul 02, 2011 2:52 pm

I downloaded the whole pack. The problem is that you shot them on auto mode. Photoshop, as suggested here, is not the answer. Next time you shoot a pano set your camera into manual mode and you will avoid all problems. If you need more dynamic range, bracket your shots.

If you really need this specific pano and you cannot go and re-shoot the photos in manual mode, you should be able to recover the lost highlights in a proper raw developer such as RawTherapee and get a much better result.

In the future please upload your raw photos if you have the time, or JPG photos if you don't. Uploading TIFF files is a waste of time and space because they contain no recoverable data over what a JPG file contains, they just take up a magnitude more space.

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by marzipano » Sat Jul 02, 2011 3:12 pm

I have been following this thread with some interest as I have also suffered from some of the uneven colour / blending problems described here although not to this extent so far

I have to confess I do take issue with some of the comments about using RAW format and also using manual settings rather than relying on auto

Whilst this advice will of course yield better results it has to be remembered that many people (myself included) own budget priced compact (pocket sized) digital cameras that they just want to carry around when out and about in case a good photo opportunity occurs. Also a number of people also use the camera built in to mobile phones in much the same way

These cameras generally do not support RAW format or have any manual capability so shooting panos in jpg format using auto settings is about as good as it gets

Now I think the points made about constant lighting conditions (i.e sun going in and out behind clouds) and the need to take the pano quickly are valid. However, I also think that software like APP and APG should be able to give decent results when these auto settings are used - certainly better than the ones shown above in this thread and without having to go to Photshop to finish off

I understand Alexandre & Co are looking at issues in 2.5 re: blending especially as compared to 2.0 and I'm looking forward to the results of that study as well

best
Martin

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by lumelix » Sat Jul 02, 2011 10:40 pm

Hello
Yes, there is a lot that can going wrong while a pano is taken. But sometimes the problem is not the camera :)
Like the last image shown in the linked topic above ( http://www.kolor.com/forum/postgallery.php?pid=83521&filename=No+CC+Original+Images.jpg )
a camera can take more than 1400 single images (JPGs) with no visible exposure differences. It's a Nikon DSLR and a Nikon AF-S 300mm.

B.t.w. all Nikon objectives still have mechanical apertures, from the oldest one up to the newest AF-S VR II types.
Like shown in the image below (from the manual of AF-S 300mm f/4) there is a mechanical lever (pos. 13) that moves the mechanical aperture in the objective.
The difference between the older MF- and AF-types and the new AF G-types is the missing aperture ring, so you can only select the aperture over the camera control.
Nearly all Nikon objectives have an open aperture measurement. If the max. aperture is f/5.6 or more the autofocus should work without problems, even when f/32 is selected. Clearly there are quality and precision differences between favorable and expensive objectives, from Nikon too. So this can result in minimal exposure differences.
But it should be below 1/3 EV when the objective and camera is ok.
The most frequent reason for flickering in time lapse sequences is an automatic exposure mode, an automatic WB or a changed light situation.
It's like in pano photography.

The problem Alexey described above occurs even if evenly exposed pictures are worked on in a pano with the color correction system in APG.
http://www.kolor.com/forum/t12214-apg-2.5.2-w7-x64-color-correction-still-fails


Last edited by lumelix on Sun Jul 03, 2011 9:43 am, edited 1 time in total.
Regards
Martin

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by DrSlony » Sun Jul 03, 2011 12:36 am

marzipano wrote:Whilst this advice will of course yield better results it has to be remembered that many people (myself included) own budget priced compact (pocket sized) digital cameras

Budget cameras offer budget photos :]
Compact cameras sometimes have a manual mode. If not, pay attention to the automatic exposure they set.
There's no magic, you can't recover what's lost.

marzipano wrote:I also think that software like APP and APG should be able to give decent results when these auto settings are used - certainly better than the ones shown above in this thread and without having to go to Photshop to finish off

Take a look at the TIFF photos yourself. As I wrote above, there is no magic. One photo is underexposed, the next is overexposed. You can't match an underexposed sky to no sky at all and expect anything other than what you see. APG handles exposure and color differences extremely well - differences that are introduced by camera inaccuracy, by lens vignetting, temperature, and many other factors. It also handles differences caused by human error very well, but there are limits to what can be done with what you have, and what you have in these photos are irreconcilable differences.

While there may be an issue with blending as described in other threads, this is not one of them.

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by alexeygfi@gmail.com » Sun Jul 03, 2011 9:07 am

Thank's everyone to talk.

Well, I can make interim conclusions.

By processing of shoting - do max able manual settings. In my Canon 550D I set manual WB, ISO, Focal and camera set exposure. Than I take RAW in Canon Digital Photo Professional and correcting when it needed. In this step I am not trying to do perfect photo, but save the important details: like clouds, grasses, shadow of buildings and another. General think: "I preparing photos to burning in APG".

DrSlony wrote: "One photo is underexposed, the next is overexposed". Well, I did it specially, when preparing RAW to convert in Tiff. Because I don't wont to lost interesting spots (I better dodge or burn it in photoshop after rendering). In panoramas with more than one circle of shoting up circle darker and ground circle lighter. At least that's what I did in the old version (APG 2) and made more than 300 panoramas of my town (http://kp.dovidka.org/pano/users/admin/). But now that strategy - are problem. Without smartbland result worse. While I think: if APG is not only stiching program, but and color burning algoritm, it should be progress to quality in new versions. And I agree with Marzipano: APG should be less demanding to photos. I think, success and popularity of APG in that sense.

One more conclusion: using multiple color anchors in APG may get good result. It just needing some times to pick a combination: color anchors and type of color blending.

Well, and photoshop, of course )) - some spots burn, some dodge, some layers overlay, some masking and will pretty good ))
But I need to more quick strategy, as now: town are big and one pano need many time. Of course, on the one hand, the historical value (which I set for my project) don't need perfect photo quality, but in another, result should be good :)

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by marzipano » Sun Jul 03, 2011 12:34 pm

I take the point about using automatic settings as opposed to manual and as this thread shows you can run into problems when the light changes dramatically in the middle of a pano

My "budget" Nikon cost me the best part of 300 pounds a few years ago yet only has auto and no RAW but if you're careful you can still get some good panos from it.

With respect to the set of photos in this thread, considering the massive variation in exposure I got APP to do a fairly reasonable job on them (as I would expect from the product !)

I didn't do any tinkering, just downloaded the tiff files and let APP get on with it. For 2.0 I didn't change anything but for 2.5 I changed the choice of hard anchor (def wrong) and set multiband to -2 as recommended. Both images are at 50% output size. Not much to choose but as usual I slightly prefer 2.0

2.0:

http://s175.photobucket.com/albums/w152/Mart1n0615/?action=view¤t=209.jpg

2.5

http://s175.photobucket.com/albums/w152/Mart1n0615/?action=view¤t=25.jpg

best
Martin

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by alexeygfi@gmail.com » Sun Jul 03, 2011 8:29 pm

Thank's for your time, Martin!

Change def color anchor - I understand it too and use it. In additional, in this pano I later try using multiple anchors.
My result: after rerendering and photoshop:
Image

----------------------------------------
Well, now I am trying next idea: create from RAW breketing photos and stitch it in APG.

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by alexeygfi@gmail.com » Sun Jul 03, 2011 8:35 pm

By the way, I bought my Canon-550D just a few weeks ago. Before I used non professional Olimpus SP-510uz. And long time shoting in JPeg, just more later found RAW in there ))


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