Nadir and Stitching  

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klausesser
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by klausesser » Tue Feb 01, 2011 12:09 am

Destiny wrote:Hey boys... I could not sleep last night thinking about something nagging at me... When I set the bubble level I noticed that the trip pod bubble was not the same... Soo... perhaps its my bubble!!.. I will make an all new pano... ignoring the pano head bubble and go back to setting and testing the Nadir using the tripods bubble.. I will then take a pano on the angles suggested above creating two rows which I prefer anyway... I will set my lens to about f8 and hope its all good..

wait a minute - the "head bubble": is it part of the head? The best way would be to have a level-base between tripod and head - so you can level the head independently from the tripod. The head´s level is what counts!

best, Klaus
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by Destiny » Tue Feb 01, 2011 6:07 am

yes.. I was thinking that today at work... The head bubble does move a little bit but it remains within the circle.. I hope to try taking a new pano today.. I will do everything you boys have suggested... They company I bought my pano head said that he had trouble too but his issue turned out to be a software issue.... I just want a nice centred Nadir.. I am sure I will get it soon...

Question. .have any of you boys ever used a EPIC Pro Robotic Camera Mount... they are not that expensive.. or at least not as expensive as some of them... apg should be fine with it... its on my wish list at this link....

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/search?Ntt=Giga+Pan+EPIC+Pro+Robotic+Camera+Mount&N=0&InitialSearch=yes

D
Primary School Teacher - Hobby Virtual Tours and 3D/360 Object/Product Photographer - Our aim is to create a 3D/360 Virtual Tour Shop/Store with links to 3D/360 degree products. My gear, VR Drive II - D90 - Nikon 10.5 fisheye - Nikon D800 with Nikon-Nikkor 14-24 - NOVOFLEX Magic Balance - Acratech GP Ball-head - Nodal Ninja 4 + RD-16 Rotor - Manfrotto 190CXPRO4 Carbon Fiber Tripod :) :)

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by digipano » Tue Feb 01, 2011 6:15 am

Yes APG 2.5 RC works fine with Gigapan EPIC Pro, use the import option in APG & then choose gigapan.
Once chosen it will give you the grid layout option & once values are filled in correctly its a breeze to stitch the images.
Last edited by digipano on Tue Feb 01, 2011 6:17 am, edited 1 time in total.

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by Destiny » Tue Feb 01, 2011 7:27 am

oh... APG 2.5RC... I am using APG 2.0.9 Where do I get APG 2.5RC from...??
I downloaded a free upgrade from apt to ptp.... its great!

D
Primary School Teacher - Hobby Virtual Tours and 3D/360 Object/Product Photographer - Our aim is to create a 3D/360 Virtual Tour Shop/Store with links to 3D/360 degree products. My gear, VR Drive II - D90 - Nikon 10.5 fisheye - Nikon D800 with Nikon-Nikkor 14-24 - NOVOFLEX Magic Balance - Acratech GP Ball-head - Nodal Ninja 4 + RD-16 Rotor - Manfrotto 190CXPRO4 Carbon Fiber Tripod :) :)

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by gkaefer » Tue Feb 01, 2011 9:31 am

Destiny wrote:oh... APG 2.5RC... I am using APG 2.0.9 Where do I get APG 2.5RC from...??
I downloaded a free upgrade from apt to ptp.... its great!

D

lol - at the same place where PTP is available....
http://www.kolor.com/v3/index.php/en/component/content/article/25

and via forum here:
http://www.autopano.net/forum/t10966-autopano-engine-v2.5-rc2-changelog

Liebe Gruesse,
Georg
Last edited by gkaefer on Tue Feb 01, 2011 9:36 am, edited 1 time in total.

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by Destiny » Tue Feb 01, 2011 11:39 am

oh wow... what a nice software app.... soooo cool... and soo quick... it actually stitched better too but still not right.. it missed in different places.. but sooo quick... Now its late so no time to play :(
I will check it out more tomorrow after work... I just love this software...

D..
Primary School Teacher - Hobby Virtual Tours and 3D/360 Object/Product Photographer - Our aim is to create a 3D/360 Virtual Tour Shop/Store with links to 3D/360 degree products. My gear, VR Drive II - D90 - Nikon 10.5 fisheye - Nikon D800 with Nikon-Nikkor 14-24 - NOVOFLEX Magic Balance - Acratech GP Ball-head - Nodal Ninja 4 + RD-16 Rotor - Manfrotto 190CXPRO4 Carbon Fiber Tripod :) :)

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by klausesser » Tue Feb 01, 2011 2:43 pm

Destiny wrote:yes.. I was thinking that today at work... The head bubble does move a little bit but it remains within the circle.. I hope to try taking a new pano today.. I will do everything you boys have suggested... They company I bought my pano head said that he had trouble too but his issue turned out to be a software issue.... I just want a nice centred Nadir.. I am sure I will get it soon...

Question. .have any of you boys ever used a EPIC Pro Robotic Camera Mount... they are not that expensive.. or at least not as expensive as some of them... apg should be fine with it... its on my wish list at this link....

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/search?Ntt=Giga+Pan+EPIC+Pro+Robotic+Camera+Mount&N=0&InitialSearch=yes

D

1) Epic Pro definitely is a lot more expensive than a working Merlin setup.
2) It´s use for indoor-spheres is limited because it´s difficult to use fisheyes.
3) I tested an epic Pro at the Photokina - it´s less sturdy than Merlin, strong wind will move it (there was a youtube which showed that).
4) it´s hard to use the camera in potrait mode and meet the NPP.

Epic Pro might be a suitable head for long distant shootings - though i mean it´s too floppy - but is not suitable indoors in my eyes.

best, Klaus
Simplicity is the keynote of all true elegance. Coco Chanel

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by Destiny » Wed Feb 02, 2011 9:26 am

emm... really interesting this Merlin thing Klaus... where is the best place to buy one from... Not that I will at the moment but it will be nice to investigate this unit more... That's interesting what you say about the epic pro.. I thought it might be a bit Tiny... I think best of all it was in part developed buy kolor so it has to work very well with their software... I just registered AuopanoGiga_RC so now I am good to go without the watermark.... I love the new version...

D..
Primary School Teacher - Hobby Virtual Tours and 3D/360 Object/Product Photographer - Our aim is to create a 3D/360 Virtual Tour Shop/Store with links to 3D/360 degree products. My gear, VR Drive II - D90 - Nikon 10.5 fisheye - Nikon D800 with Nikon-Nikkor 14-24 - NOVOFLEX Magic Balance - Acratech GP Ball-head - Nodal Ninja 4 + RD-16 Rotor - Manfrotto 190CXPRO4 Carbon Fiber Tripod :) :)

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by Destiny » Wed Feb 02, 2011 11:38 am

Well.. I had a thought today... its all to do with that finger line-up tip... My wobbly nadir has me very confused.. So.. my thought were .. if I put a single image into Photoshop taken using my fisheye lens pointing straight down I can snap the centre lines of that image in Photoshop perfectly... So I did... http://members.westnet.com.au/dps/TestStuff/PhotoshopTest.html
You can see that I just have to move down on the slide just a tiny bit and it should line up ok then.. It took a few shots but I think I now have it.. Its a bit too dark now to create a vr so I will attempt to give it a try tomorrow...
One thing is for certain.. the increments on this pano head are really just an indicator.. they are not accurate... but I do not think they have to be to be honest.. as long as you know how much it is out... mine is about 5-6 degrees...

D
Primary School Teacher - Hobby Virtual Tours and 3D/360 Object/Product Photographer - Our aim is to create a 3D/360 Virtual Tour Shop/Store with links to 3D/360 degree products. My gear, VR Drive II - D90 - Nikon 10.5 fisheye - Nikon D800 with Nikon-Nikkor 14-24 - NOVOFLEX Magic Balance - Acratech GP Ball-head - Nodal Ninja 4 + RD-16 Rotor - Manfrotto 190CXPRO4 Carbon Fiber Tripod :) :)

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by klausesser » Wed Feb 02, 2011 12:35 pm

Simplicity is the keynote of all true elegance. Coco Chanel

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by Aeriscera » Wed Feb 02, 2011 5:04 pm

I haven't checked to see if anyone has suggested this, but if you want a nadir that is not a logo, what I do is take my pano then move the tripod out of the way and take the nadir shots by hand. With practice you can get acceptable results this way. I guess acceptability depends on how much your viewers are likely to carefully inpsect the floor :-)

Aeris

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by hankkarl » Wed Feb 02, 2011 6:49 pm

Destiny wrote:Well.. I had a thought today... its all to do with that finger line-up tip... My wobbly nadir has me very confused.. So.. my thought were .. if I put a single image into Photoshop taken using my fisheye lens pointing straight down I can snap the centre lines of that image in Photoshop perfectly... So I did... http://members.westnet.com.au/dps/TestStuff/PhotoshopTest.html
You can see that I just have to move down on the slide just a tiny bit and it should line up ok then.. It took a few shots but I think I now have it.. Its a bit too dark now to create a vr so I will attempt to give it a try tomorrow...
One thing is for certain.. the increments on this pano head are really just an indicator.. they are not accurate... but I do not think they have to be to be honest.. as long as you know how much it is out... mine is about 5-6 degrees...

D

Its better to use two nadir images, taken 90 degrees from each other because the sensor is not always perfectly centered.

Make sure the center of the panohead is at the same place on both images. usually there is some sort of screw or bolt at the center that you can use to line things up.

Note that you can do this on-camera:

1. level the camera with a hotshoe level so the camera points straight down.
2. take a picture.
3, rotate 90 degrees, take another picture.
4. review the two pictures, zoom in 'till they're lifesized (if possible) the difference in overlap of the center screw shows how much and which direction to move the head.

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by klausesser » Wed Feb 02, 2011 7:49 pm

I have my Manfrotto or Merlin mounted on an Arca-Swiss Monoball. So i can tilt the head/camera to 90°, put the tripod aside the length of the camera/head-base distance and shoot straight down about 40cm beneath the tripod (of course i compensate the height also ;) )
This way i have a perfect Nadir - even using long exposure times (impossible shooting 10 or 20sec. by hand) or bracketing.

best, Klaus
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by Aeriscera » Wed Feb 02, 2011 8:06 pm

klausesser wrote:I have my Manfrotto or Merlin mounted on an Arca-Swiss Monoball. So i can tilt the head/camera to 90°, put the tripod aside the length of the camera/head-base distance and shoot straight down about 40cm beneath the tripod (of course i compensate the height also ;) )

This sounds like exactly the right way to do things. I wish I had something comparable I could use with my Gigapan Pro. But ..
This way i have a perfect Nadir - even using long exposure times (impossible shooting 10 or 20sec. by hand) or bracketing.

I'd say it depends what you mean by "impossible". If you want pixel-perfect images for a paying client, yep, I am sure you're right. On the other hand if something less perfect is sufficient then all you have to do is to drop the shutter speed to 1/200 say, compensating by cranking up the ISO, for the hand-held nadir shots. For something where nobody is going to look at the ground very closely, I think you can get away with very high (tm) ISO on a camera like the 7D.

A

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by Destiny » Wed Feb 02, 2011 9:25 pm

That's really interesting stuff... quite funny really the guy is so casual about taking the images and here is me struggling to take a VR with a tripod... I did actually try this techneique before I purchased my tripod and pano head but the results are 'terrible', perhaps I need to be calm as the guy in the video rather than getting all excited and trembling my hands:lol:...
Primary School Teacher - Hobby Virtual Tours and 3D/360 Object/Product Photographer - Our aim is to create a 3D/360 Virtual Tour Shop/Store with links to 3D/360 degree products. My gear, VR Drive II - D90 - Nikon 10.5 fisheye - Nikon D800 with Nikon-Nikkor 14-24 - NOVOFLEX Magic Balance - Acratech GP Ball-head - Nodal Ninja 4 + RD-16 Rotor - Manfrotto 190CXPRO4 Carbon Fiber Tripod :) :)

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by Aeriscera » Wed Feb 02, 2011 9:30 pm

Destiny wrote:I did actually try this techneique before I purchased my tripod and pano head but the results are 'terrible'

You do need some practice. I got to be quite good at it but then I got used to my robotic pano head and now I am rubbish at it again. I just went to the Alhambra specifically to take gigapans, but only 4 of the 9 I took (i.e. hand-held) were usable. Oh well, I will just have to go back and try again - not exactly a hardship :-)

A
Last edited by Aeriscera on Wed Feb 02, 2011 9:31 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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by Destiny » Thu Feb 03, 2011 1:45 am

OK boys.. I have created a new test after adjusting my pano head... but it is still not right... Good news though.. the nadir looks centre when I drag my mouse down hand hold my finger up.. but there are areas of the pano where it did not stitch correctly... I do not know which way I am supposed to move it.. Perhaps I have to bring the lens/camera back or forward.. I will try that... Here is a link I took a photo of my screen.. . I could not take a screen dump but you can still see what I am seeing on the Nadir... It is centre but its looks sick... but not that sick... I then tried using the same images on the old version of apg just to make sure its not a software issue... It is painfully slow software.. this new version is so much quicker... The results were... it stitched about the same but perhaps a little bit better....

http://members.westnet.com.au/dps/TestStuff/screenshotofnadir.html

Emm.... so many problems... So, where can I buy a piece of string and a nail from????

D :)
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by Destiny » Thu Feb 03, 2011 5:23 am

Yippee... :)... http://members.westnet.com.au/dps/DudleighVR/PantryArea.html
My fisheye lens has come into its own in a narrow area.... This VR is my best yet.. BUT... its still not perfect.. Just a couple of small points that did not stitched correctly...
I hold my finger up to the Nadir and its not too bad... but.. Now I need your advice.. I feel the hex screw should be perfectly alined to ensure I have the correct setting.. oh, but what do I move.. I guess I will just have to take a guess... What do you think boys..

Excellent, Good, OK or Ordinary.. haha ;)

D
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by klausesser » Thu Feb 03, 2011 1:50 pm

Destiny wrote:Emm.... so many problems... So, where can I buy a piece of string and a nail from????

Try ebay . . . . :D:P:cool:

best,. Klaus
Simplicity is the keynote of all true elegance. Coco Chanel

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by Destiny » Fri Feb 04, 2011 1:33 am

Mirror Mirror On The Wall Destiny is the fairest of them ALL... This is a good one for you to work out...

I need to take a VR inside our bedroom.. BUT.. it has a large mirror dresser on one wall... How do I take a VR without having the image of the tripod and camera in the scene ... emm... This might take a lot of thought and brain power.. which I do not have... Perhaps I can stand behind a blue board with a hole in it and take single shot then put it over in Photoshop with a few different layers.. Too much thinking.. I am off outside to take a nice outdoor VR...

D
Primary School Teacher - Hobby Virtual Tours and 3D/360 Object/Product Photographer - Our aim is to create a 3D/360 Virtual Tour Shop/Store with links to 3D/360 degree products. My gear, VR Drive II - D90 - Nikon 10.5 fisheye - Nikon D800 with Nikon-Nikkor 14-24 - NOVOFLEX Magic Balance - Acratech GP Ball-head - Nodal Ninja 4 + RD-16 Rotor - Manfrotto 190CXPRO4 Carbon Fiber Tripod :) :)

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by Destiny » Fri Feb 04, 2011 3:52 am

Hello boys

I think this ticket has run its course.. I have gotten heaps of good information out of it.. I hope others have too... I would like to thank you all for your impute... I finally got to take an outdoor VR.. I am happy with it but perhaps I need to choose a better garden... http://members.westnet.com.au/dps/DudleighGardenVR/Garden1.html

I might begin a new forum ticket on the Mirror issue... Someone must have done one before...

Destny :)
Primary School Teacher - Hobby Virtual Tours and 3D/360 Object/Product Photographer - Our aim is to create a 3D/360 Virtual Tour Shop/Store with links to 3D/360 degree products. My gear, VR Drive II - D90 - Nikon 10.5 fisheye - Nikon D800 with Nikon-Nikkor 14-24 - NOVOFLEX Magic Balance - Acratech GP Ball-head - Nodal Ninja 4 + RD-16 Rotor - Manfrotto 190CXPRO4 Carbon Fiber Tripod :) :)

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by mediavets » Fri Feb 04, 2011 6:19 am

Destiny wrote:Mirror Mirror On The Wall Destiny is the fairest of them ALL... This is a good one for you to work out...

I need to take a VR inside our bedroom.. BUT.. it has a large mirror dresser on one wall... How do I take a VR without having the image of the tripod and camera in the scene ... emm... This might take a lot of thought and brain power.. which I do not have... Perhaps I can stand behind a blue board with a hole in it and take single shot then put it over in Photoshop with a few different layers.. Too much thinking.. I am off outside to take a nice outdoor VR...

D

http://www.panoguide.com/forums/tipsntricks/7652/

Use the Search and search for 'mirror' to find additional threads.
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by Destiny » Fri Feb 04, 2011 7:04 am

Well that rapped that up nicely.. Thank you...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6s_DyWUBu0s
That was very funny...
D;
Primary School Teacher - Hobby Virtual Tours and 3D/360 Object/Product Photographer - Our aim is to create a 3D/360 Virtual Tour Shop/Store with links to 3D/360 degree products. My gear, VR Drive II - D90 - Nikon 10.5 fisheye - Nikon D800 with Nikon-Nikkor 14-24 - NOVOFLEX Magic Balance - Acratech GP Ball-head - Nodal Ninja 4 + RD-16 Rotor - Manfrotto 190CXPRO4 Carbon Fiber Tripod :) :)

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by klausesser » Fri Feb 04, 2011 12:40 pm

Destiny wrote:Well that rapped that up nicely.. Thank you...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6s_DyWUBu0s
That was very funny...
D;

Yes - funny :). And easy to make: blue-/greenscreen-coloured blanket and a video editing application with a colour-keyer. FinalCut, Avid, Premiere, AfterEffects and a couple of others do it fine.

best, Klaus
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by Destiny » Sat Feb 05, 2011 9:03 am

Well.. I was getting all excited about my Bathroom VR when I noticed that when I edited the pano head and tripod away from the reflected image on the mirror.. I forgot to put the power plug back.. check out the refection.... http://members.westnet.com.au/dps/BathroomVR/Bathroom2.html
emmm...... silly me!!!

D :)
Primary School Teacher - Hobby Virtual Tours and 3D/360 Object/Product Photographer - Our aim is to create a 3D/360 Virtual Tour Shop/Store with links to 3D/360 degree products. My gear, VR Drive II - D90 - Nikon 10.5 fisheye - Nikon D800 with Nikon-Nikkor 14-24 - NOVOFLEX Magic Balance - Acratech GP Ball-head - Nodal Ninja 4 + RD-16 Rotor - Manfrotto 190CXPRO4 Carbon Fiber Tripod :) :)

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