BUG!... ??   [SOLVED] - View the solution

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Re: BUG!... ??

by klausesser » Thu Jul 23, 2015 12:37 am

mediavets wrote:
klausesser wrote:Downloads only 25MB from 71MB. Whyever. Doesn´t work.

Started the download four times - each time it stopped after 25 up to 35MB . . .

Klaus

I had no trouble downloading the ZIP file earlier today.



I´ll try again tomorow - maybe there´s a problem somewhere between here and Australia . . =D
Bur all other downloads work fine . .

Klaus

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Re: BUG!... ??

by Destiny » Thu Jul 23, 2015 7:05 am

Here is the XML code.. You will see that you will get errors in Edit.. When using the XML with the Large images, there are many more errors....

Here to is a pre-fused pano.. Much better than using APG since I do not get the Ghosting..

For me, using stacks causes ghosting with stacks.. using XML does not help with the stitching.. It actually causes issues... partially with the large images...

i will try to make them double size and add them here.. See how the file size is...

Destiny..
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P23-2015-07-23-07-30.xml.zip
(834 Bytes) Downloaded 33 times
SMALL-Fused.jpg

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Re: BUG!... ??

by Destiny » Thu Jul 23, 2015 7:33 am

This link is to medium size images..

http://www.destinyvirtualtours.com/ForT ... Medium.zip

Destiny...

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Re: BUG!... ??

by Destiny » Thu Jul 23, 2015 8:27 am

I have attached a single XML for anyone wanting to Fuse my images..

I have just tried my new Antique Centre with XML and Pre-Fused images, and even though I get some errors in Edit, the final stitch is fine.. Strange thing, when I capture my home and use the XML it is not so fine...

Much better to use Fused images and If XML is providing a good result, even though it say the RMS are higher, that is much better than using Stacked images in APG since it cannot use Hard Links so I get horrible ghosting on parts of the pano.. I do not get the ghosting with Pre-Fused images..

Destiny..
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P23-14mm 45x45.xml.zip
(601 Bytes) Downloaded 27 times

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Re: BUG!... ??

by Destiny » Thu Jul 23, 2015 10:10 am

I just rendered the full size large pre-fused images using XML. There are many small errors.. Less without using XML.. So i was right.. Using XML does not help but rather add to issues.. More noticeable with a pano captured inside my home.. I tried using Roundshot.. Not tried the Pappy Wizard plugin...

Destiny..

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Re: BUG!... ??

by mediavets » Thu Jul 23, 2015 10:39 am

We still don't know why using stacks and hard links fails.

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Re: BUG!... ??

by Destiny » Thu Jul 23, 2015 11:26 am

No we don't... its been a total frustration since using my 14-24.. I have no choice but to use pre-fused images. but without using XML, since that makes is worse.. Not sure if changing the shooting pattern will make a difference, but I will try when I have time..

Destiny...

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Re: BUG!... ??

by klausesser » Thu Jul 23, 2015 11:46 am

Destiny wrote:No we don't... its been a total frustration since using my 14-24.. I have no choice but to use pre-fused images. but without using XML, since that makes is worse.. Not sure if changing the shooting pattern will make a difference, but I will try when I have time..

Destiny...


In a location like your Antique Center you wouldn´t really need xml - you have plenty of cp-relevant features anyway.

XML you desperately need in locations featuring big homogen-colored areas - blue sky or big monochrome walls and so.

BUT - nevertheless your head´s XML needs to work correctly also in your Antique Center, of course.

So the question is: why doesn´t it work correctly?

Are you absolutely sure using the head´s xml-generating correctly?


Klaus

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Re: BUG!... ??

by klausesser » Thu Jul 23, 2015 11:49 am

Destiny wrote:This link is to medium size images..

http://www.destinyvirtualtours.com/ForT ... Medium.zip

Destiny...


Download constantly breaks down after appr. 40MB . . .

I downloaded a 700MB-file half an hour ago - no problems at all - i have a 32Mb cable connection.

Klaus

PS:

I heard right now that a truck crashed into a switchbox nearby anddemolished it - they´re repairing it and it´s rather slow during repair.

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Re: BUG!... ??

by Destiny » Thu Jul 23, 2015 12:08 pm

I realise that XML is not really necessary with the Antique Centre, but I tried it since the Hard Links does not work and I had some stitching issues with Pre-Fused images, so I was hoping that the XML would fix perfectly.. But what I discovered was the XML does not aid in the stitching at all, in fact it causes more issues......

The code I have added here is exported directly from my VR Drive.. For a single image, I simply set the VR Drive to capture a single shot and then exported the XML code..

I need it to work correctly using XML so that during times XML is necessary I have that option to fall back on.. At the moment I don't..

Destiny...

klausesser wrote:
Destiny wrote:No we don't... its been a total frustration since using my 14-24.. I have no choice but to use pre-fused images. but without using XML, since that makes is worse.. Not sure if changing the shooting pattern will make a difference, but I will try when I have time..

Destiny...


In a location like your Antique Center you wouldn´t really need xml - you have plenty of cp-relevant features anyway.

XML you desperately need in locations featuring big homogen-colored areas - blue sky or big monochrome walls and so.

BUT - nevertheless your head´s XML needs to work correctly also in your Antique Center, of course.

So the question is: why doesn´t it work correctly?

Are you absolutely sure using the head´s xml-generating correctly?


Klaus

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Re: BUG!... ??

by Destiny » Thu Jul 23, 2015 12:21 pm

This is the view from Edit after using Hard Links...

Destiny...
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HL.jpg

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Re: BUG!... ??

by mediavets » Thu Jul 23, 2015 12:33 pm

Destiny wrote:No we don't... its been a total frustration since using my 14-24.. I have no choice but to use pre-fused images. but without using XML, since that makes is worse.. Not sure if changing the shooting pattern will make a difference, but I will try when I have time..

Destiny...

If it's difficult to change shooting pattern with the VRDrive robot then use your NN4 instead for these shooting pattern experiments?

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Re: BUG!... ??

by Destiny » Thu Jul 23, 2015 12:41 pm

No, its not difficult to change the shooting pattern with the VR Drive.. Easy in fact... but I have never shot a Nadir or Zenith using it.. So I will be careful with my 14-24mm lens..

Destiny...

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Re: BUG!... ??

by klausesser » Thu Jul 23, 2015 1:15 pm

Destiny wrote:So I will be careful with my 14-24mm lens..


You definitely need to.

1) your brightest shots are so dramatically overexposed that they "blur" some parts in the windows.
2) your lens is extremely sensitive for extreme highlights. Maybe it´s not absolutely clean.
3) after i set "14mm" and "rect" the stitching worked like a charm.
4) i processed the brackets in Photomatix.
5) NO ghosting, NO stitch-errors AT ALL - as far as i see in the rendering:
6) it´s RMS 1,6

Dest.jpg



I didn´t test the xml so far - will do it in the evening.
Klaus

I´m running a test leaving away the very brightest exposures - maybe this helps a bit.

In terms of highlights it´s much better:
Destiny_2.jpg

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Re: BUG!... ??

by klausesser » Thu Jul 23, 2015 2:58 pm

Destiny wrote:No, its not difficult to change the shooting pattern with the VR Drive.. Easy in fact... but I have never shot a Nadir or Zenith using it.. So I will be careful with my 14-24mm lens..

Destiny...


Using the XML - used "skip optimisation" i the importer:

Bildschirmfoto 2015-07-23 um 15.55.56.png

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Re: BUG!... ??

by mediavets » Thu Jul 23, 2015 3:05 pm

klausesser wrote:
Destiny wrote:No, its not difficult to change the shooting pattern with the VR Drive.. Easy in fact... but I have never shot a Nadir or Zenith using it.. So I will be careful with my 14-24mm lens..

Destiny...


Using the XML - used "skip optimisation" i the importer:

Bildschirmfoto 2015-07-23 um 15.55.56.png


The RMS is 16.94.

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Re: BUG!... ??

by klausesser » Thu Jul 23, 2015 3:10 pm

mediavets wrote:
klausesser wrote:
Destiny wrote:No, its not difficult to change the shooting pattern with the VR Drive.. Easy in fact... but I have never shot a Nadir or Zenith using it.. So I will be careful with my 14-24mm lens..

Destiny...


Using the XML - used "skip optimisation" i the importer:

Bildschirmfoto 2015-07-23 um 15.55.56.png


The RMS is 16.94.



In THIS stage - yes. ;) :cool:

Right now i´m rendering the final stitch - stitching was not a problem at all.

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Re: BUG!... ??

by klausesser » Thu Jul 23, 2015 3:17 pm

ok - here comes the final one:

imported xml,
imported the brackets (5 each = 60 images)
did NOT set "skip optimization" but ran everything as default.
Used the "Fusion-Tool" - which i hate very much because it´s just Try and Error - and used a phantasy-setting just for looking what happens.
Rendering is in progress.

btw.: RMS 1,8

ok - here we are:

Dest_XML_Rend.jpg


As said: anything on default. A bit of optimization would have corrected two very minor ghosts - which might result from
little movings of the objects or rthe camera between bracket-shots.

All in all that was done in about 30min.

A tip, Destiny: when you face such extreme light-situations -
1) measure the brightest points. the brightest points need the shortest exposure - let´s say: 1/125
2) measure the darkest points. the darkest points need the longest exposure - let´s say: 1/2
3) set the extremes to 1/125 and to 1/2 sec.
4) let your device (camera resp. controller) calculate the steps in between.

In THIS location i would have preferred 7 or 9 steps instead of 5.

Klaus
Last edited by klausesser on Thu Jul 23, 2015 9:46 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: BUG!... ??

by klausesser » Thu Jul 23, 2015 4:11 pm

As said before already: using bracketed sets in APG in combination with XML-import works well.
I so far didn´t face ANY shoot which could NOT get stitched.

BUT: the "Fusion Tool" in my eyes needs to be worked over - it´s use is much too much try-and-error, takes MUCH too long finding a good result resp. a strategy which would work for more than one motive. I mean it´s not reliable enough for being used for commercial/professional jobs.

That´s why i stick to my advise to process bracketed sets FIRST before stitching them.

We also see that Photomatix DOES NOT have ANY impact on stitching processed images.

Klaus

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Re: BUG!... ??

by klausesser » Thu Jul 23, 2015 4:26 pm

klausesser wrote:
minor ghosts - which might result from
little movings of the objects or rthe camera between bracket-shots.



"One more thing" (S. Jobs) ;) :

A problem shooting bracketed sets for spheres/panos indoors - with usually long exp. times - using a "robotic" head it´s widely understimated how important a VERY STURDY, meaning: preferably rather HEAVY tripod is.
A robotic head is rather heavy and has a big moving mass - which causing vibrations as well in the rig as in the tripod when it starts and stops to move. This vibrations - as small as they might be - can lead to some blur in some of the images in the shoot.
Especially shooting bracketed that might become rather critical: you wouldn´t realize it on the set.

Klaus

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Re: BUG!... ??

by klausesser » Thu Jul 23, 2015 4:29 pm

mediavets wrote:
Destiny wrote:No we don't... its been a total frustration since using my 14-24.. I have no choice but to use pre-fused images. but without using XML, since that makes is worse.. Not sure if changing the shooting pattern will make a difference, but I will try when I have time..

Destiny...

If it's difficult to change shooting pattern with the VRDrive robot then use your NN4 instead for these shooting pattern experiments?



The shooting pattern is very much ok!!

Klaus

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Re: BUG!... ??

by Destiny » Thu Jul 23, 2015 10:37 pm

Thats good to hear.. I like that shooting pattern and it makes sense.. Its the Default which my VR Drive comes up with...
So we can eliminate any issues derived by my shooting pattern..

Destiny...

klausesser wrote:
The shooting pattern is very much ok!!

Klaus

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Re: BUG!... ??

by Destiny » Thu Jul 23, 2015 10:42 pm

I really do not want to buy a new Tripod at the moment.. Cannot afford to buy anything now I am in debt with new iMac.. I guess if I got some work and had issues I could look into buying a heavy tripod.. I have a lot of settings on my VR Drive where I can slow down the speed of the rotation and give it a pause time between shots.. I have realised that my tripod might jigger a bit if I am not careful, partially on slippery floors.. The wooden floor in the Antique Centre are no slippery but they can be a bit smooth so could still slip a bit.. Not sure..

I will take onboard what you suggest here.. It makes sense.. The VR Drive is not that heavy but I realise that there would be no way to use my tripod with the Panoneed.. Far too heavy a head..

Destiny..

klausesser wrote:"One more thing" (S. Jobs) ;) :

A problem shooting bracketed sets for spheres/panos indoors - with usually long exp. times - using a "robotic" head it´s widely understimated how important a VERY STURDY, meaning: preferably rather HEAVY tripod is.
A robotic head is rather heavy and has a big moving mass - which causing vibrations as well in the rig as in the tripod when it starts and stops to move. This vibrations - as small as they might be - can lead to some blur in some of the images in the shoot.
Especially shooting bracketed that might become rather critical: you wouldn´t realize it on the set.

Klaus

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Re: BUG!... ??

by Destiny » Thu Jul 23, 2015 10:47 pm

The Fusion tooling in APG is next to useless.. Very hard to use, and its a guess.. No presets so basically a waist of time.. Far quicker and better to use pre-fuse images.. I much prefer to use EnfuseGUI.. It tends to give me the results I like.. I can always tinker with the end render in Photoshop..

Destiny..

klausesser wrote:As said before already: using bracketed sets in APG in combination with XML-import works well.
I so far didn´t face ANY shoot which could NOT get stitched.

BUT: the "Fusion Tool" in my eyes needs to be worked over - it´s use is much too much try-and-error, takes MUCH too long finding a good result resp. a strategy which would work for more than one motive. I mean it´s not reliable enough for being used for commercial/professional jobs.

That´s why i stick to my advise to process bracketed sets FIRST before stitching them.

We also see that Photomatix DOES NOT have ANY impact on stitching processed images.

Klaus

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Re: BUG!... ??

by Destiny » Thu Jul 23, 2015 10:59 pm

Ok.. I have to avoid using Stacks in APG with my 14-24mm images, since I cannot use Hard Links.. Using Stacks crates double image and that will vary depending on the images shot.. The less detailed features in the scene the more an issue it becomes.. Or so I have found.. For me XML does not help with Stacks..

So, the process is back to pre-fused images.. My lens is fine to use which I am happy about. My stitching pattern is good..

Now I have to focus on Pre Processed images to see what works best.. I will test the XML and no XML.. and I will show you that you get a difference with Photomatix images depending on the settings. Since I have the large images you can see the difference more so...

This post was titled a BUG since I could not process Stacks with Hard Links. This is still the case to I would still suggest its a BUG.. Since I feel that APG should be able to do this.. Using hard links with my 50mm or 35mm is fine.. Even my 10.5 fisheye.. But not with my 14-24mm.....

Destiny..

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