Detecting process bug  

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Carine
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Detecting process bug

by Carine » Tue Nov 04, 2014 5:05 pm

Hello

We have a paid subscription of Kolor Autopano pro 3.6

After having uploaded several images, Autopano Pro breaks the images into multiple panoramics (detecting process) and the software doesn't recognize all the images. 1 panoramic from all uploaded images needs to be created though

Please help us out here!

Regards
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Re: Detecting process bug

by mediavets » Tue Nov 04, 2014 6:48 pm

Carine wrote:Hello

We have a paid subscription of Kolor Autopano pro 3.6

After having uploaded several images, Autopano Pro breaks the images into multiple panoramics (detecting process) and the software doesn't recognize all the images. 1 panoramic from all uploaded images needs to be created though

Please help us out here!

Regards


Are you using a properly setup pano head or were these images shot handheld?

You seem to have quite a few relatively featureless images - plain walls and so on.

APP/APG will have trouble finding matching features and creating links with such images.

In such cases you will have for force all the images into the single pano and then position the images manually (if you know the shooting co-ordinates) or try to create control pints and links manually using the Control point editor.

Another approach on such cases is to place coloured post-it type sticky notes on plain walls to provide control points for the stitcher and these edit these out later.

Shooting interiors scenes such as this one with a 35mm focal length lens will always be tricky because there's a high probability that you will have featureless images in the image set. That's why people favour fisheye lenses when shooting this sort of pano.
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Re: Detecting process bug

by Carine » Tue Nov 04, 2014 7:50 pm

Images are shot handheld - with a smartphone.
Quality panoramics with a smartphone is necessary because our clients will always use a mobile device to shoot interior and exterior panoramics.
1. Forcing the images into a single pano does not work.
2. How do i place coloured post-it type sticky notes on plain walls to provide control points for the stitcher and how do i edit these out later? Please clarify step by step.

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Re: Detecting process bug

by mediavets » Tue Nov 04, 2014 10:30 pm

Carine wrote:Images are shot handheld - with a smartphone.
Quality panoramics with a smartphone is necessary because our clients will always use a mobile device to shoot interior (and exterior panoramics.

You have little chance of producing good quality spherical panos either indoors (or even outdoors) shooting handheld with a smartphone.

If you must use handheld smartphones I suggest you stick to single row shooting and use a panorama app. to stitch on the phone.

Is it the plan that the client(s) will the doing the shooting?

What sort of clients are these? Real estate agents?
1. Forcing the images into a single pano does not work.

What do you mean it doesn't work? You will still have to place the images or create control points with the CP editor. But there's still little chance of a good result if shooting handheld with a smartphone.
2. How do i place coloured post-it type sticky notes on plain walls to provide control points for the stitcher and how do i edit these out later? Please clarify step by step.

This won't (by itself) solve the problem so long as you are shooting handheld with a smartphone; so it's not worth explaining (although I'd have thought it was more or less self evident).

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Re: Detecting process bug

by Annis » Wed Nov 05, 2014 9:59 am

It is really quite difficult to shoot a spherical panorama hand held with a proper camera, so with a smartphone it would be next to impossible. Add to that that your clients would have to follow that very specific work flow, it would waste a lot of time and perhaps anger some.

I think it would be much easier for you, and your clients, if you got a Ricoh Theta instead, or something along those lines. All your clients will not have the same smartphone, the quality will vary even if you can manage to create your panorama correctly, so there would not be any consistency between your tours afterwards.

The Theta images do not require stitching, and you can use them direclty in Panotour Pro. All your clients would then need is a smartphone with access to the Appstore or Google Play, to download the app to use the Theta from a distance (unless they don't mind being in the photo, in that case they can just press the button on the Theta).

I would really recommend checking it out: http://www.kolor.com/store/bundles/one-click-vr.html


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Re: Detecting process bug

by Carine » Wed Nov 05, 2014 11:40 am

I didn't pay €226,8 to find out now that good quality spherical panos cannot be produced with a smartphone when in all Kolor video tutorials is clearly mentioned that smartphones can be commonly used.

I didn't post this subject in order to get answers like "it's not worth explaining".

My question is very clear,
How do I prevent that spherical panos break because (an) image(s) simply don't have (a) linked image(s)? How can I link (an) image(s)?

Question to Anis,
Why did I have to spend €113,4 buying autopano 3.6 if Ricoh Theta doesn't require any stitching software?

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Re: Detecting process bug

by Annis » Wed Nov 05, 2014 11:59 am

I believe you were confused when browsing our website. Could you show me where, exactly (with a link, or several?) you were misled to believe that you could create good quality spherical panoramas with a phone?

You can view and browse virtual tours created with PTP on your smartphones without any problem, but shooting the panoramas requires a specific technique, which is next to impossible using smartphones.

The creation of spherical panoramas requires a very specific shooting technique, using adapted equipment to compensate what could cause some stitching errors after. Smartphones are not adapted equipment for this type of shooting.

As part of the creation of panoramas to build a virtual tour, shooting requires the use of a panoramic head (spherical mount, which allow to rotate in the x, y and z axes).
A camera/fisheye lens couple is recommended, it can cover a large area with a small quantity of pictures (a 10.5 mm fisheye lens can cover a field of 360° x 180° with 8 photos).
Regarding the pano-head, the workflow is to mount the camera on the pano-head to shoot the photos by rotating the device with x and y axes.

The z-axis, allows you to adjust the nodal point (or pupil entrance of the lens) from the center of the pano-head, to avoid the parallax (which is extremely important for this type of shooting).


I suggested the Theta, as it seemed to be the solution for what you are searching to do.


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Re: Detecting process bug

by mediavets » Wed Nov 05, 2014 12:08 pm

Carine wrote:I didn't pay €226,8 to find out now that good quality spherical panos cannot be produced with a smartphone when in all Kolor video tutorials is clearly mentioned that smartphones can be commonly used.


Had you experimented using a trial version of the software you would have discovered that smartphones are not suited to shooting high quality spherical panos, especially not of interior scenes.

Had you sought advice on the forum before purchasing a license you would have been advised accordingly.

You can shoot reasonable outdoor partial panos (those with a HFOV of less than 360 and a VFOV of less than 180) using panorama apps on some smartphones.

I didn't post this subject in order to get answers like "it's not worth explaining".

the coloured post-it note technique will not resolve the problems you have when shooting handheld with a smartphone, so it is not relevant in those circumstances, and hence not worth explaining.

My question is very clear,
How do I prevent that spherical panos break because (an) image(s) simply don't have (a) linked image(s)? How can I link (an) image(s)?


You have two problems - first, shooting handheld with a 35mm focal length smartphone camera you are likely to have unresolvable parallax problems, which means you cannot (ever) achieve a prefect stitch; also, you are likely to have a lot of featureless images (plain walls and ceilings) so the software cannot automatically create links between some images and these then get left out of the stitched pano. You can try and place and link these images manually, after forcing them into the pano, using the Panorama and Control points editors but it's a lot more work and the results are still likely to be poor because of parallax issues.

To avoid these problems you need to use a proper pano head (to avoid the parallax issues) and a different camera/lens setup with shorter focal length, preferably a fisheye lens, so that you require fewer images to cover the 360x180 FOV and hence fewer seams and less likelihood of having featureless images.

The Ricoh Theta offers a relatively low cost one-shot pano shooting system, but you would have to be the judge of whether it produces with image quality you seek.

Spherical panos of interior scenes are perhaps the most challenging sorts of panos to shoot and produce, and cannot be created easily with just any camera; good quality results depend on the correct choice of hardware, the correct shooting technique and careful image processing.

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Re: Detecting process bug

by Carine » Wed Nov 05, 2014 12:45 pm

How can I link (an) image(s)?

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Re: Detecting process bug

by mediavets » Wed Nov 05, 2014 12:52 pm

Carine wrote:How can I link (an) image(s)?


This tutorial may help?:

http://www.autopano.net/wiki-en/action/ ... ow_details

If you want to make the entire image set available as a ZIP file for download I'll have a look and see what can be done with it.

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Re: Detecting process bug

by Carine » Wed Nov 05, 2014 2:12 pm

The images have been forced into 1 panorama
The guess position option doesn't help :rolleyes:
I don't understand how to fix it - tutorial step 3
Please help me out here and explain how you achieved results - step by step like open edit tab, hit .... etc

Where can i e-mail the panos because the extension pano is not allowed on this forum

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Re: Detecting process bug

by mediavets » Wed Nov 05, 2014 2:24 pm

Carine wrote:The images have been forced into 1 panorama
The guess position option doesn't help :rolleyes:
I don't understand how to fix it - tutorial step 3
Please help me out here and explain how you achieved results - step by step like open edit tab, hit .... etc

Where can i e-mail the panos because the extension pano is not allowed on this forum


a .pano file is not an image, it's the project file.

I cannot help you without access to the complete original image set.

You could make then available for download using something like Dropbox.

However for reasons outlined earlier is very unlikely you'll be able to get a good stitch if shooting interior spherical panos handheld using a smartphone.

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Re: Detecting process bug

by Cliquetsy » Wed Nov 05, 2014 2:31 pm

Can you put your photos into one folder and .zip that folder? You can attach .zips to the post, or share the photos through dropbox as mediavets suggested.

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Re: Detecting process bug

by Carine » Wed Nov 05, 2014 2:56 pm

I need your dropbox ID's (e-mail) to share the folder through dropbox

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Re: Detecting process bug

by mediavets » Wed Nov 05, 2014 2:59 pm

Carine wrote:I need your dropbox ID's (e-mail) to share the folder through dropbox


Send via pm.

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Re: Detecting process bug

by Carine » Wed Nov 05, 2014 3:04 pm

Here you are
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Re: Detecting process bug

by Carine » Wed Nov 05, 2014 5:37 pm

Waiting for your replies

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Re: Detecting process bug

by HansKeesom » Wed Nov 05, 2014 7:10 pm

will give it a try

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Re: Detecting process bug

by mediavets » Wed Nov 05, 2014 7:23 pm

Carine wrote:Waiting for your replies


I couldn't fix this one anymore than this:
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1-apg363-interior-iphone4.jpg

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Re: Detecting process bug

by mediavets » Wed Nov 05, 2014 7:28 pm

Carine wrote:Waiting for your replies


This one stitched OK without manual CP editing:
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Re: Detecting process bug

by mediavets » Wed Nov 05, 2014 7:34 pm

Carine wrote:Waiting for your replies


This one stitched OK - no featureless image and nothing too close to the camera:
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3-apg363-street.jpg
Last edited by mediavets on Wed Nov 05, 2014 7:47 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Detecting process bug

by mediavets » Wed Nov 05, 2014 7:35 pm

Couldn't fix the living room pano - too many featureless images and parallax issues.

You might get a better result shooting a partial pano using a panorama app. on your iPhone?
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Re: Detecting process bug

by Carine » Wed Nov 05, 2014 7:57 pm

Mediavets, Thanks for giving it a try but I clearly asked to help me out here by explaining how exactly you fixed the stitching problems - step by step like open edit tab, hit .... etc

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Re: Detecting process bug

by Carine » Wed Nov 05, 2014 7:58 pm

Hanskeesom, I will wait for your explanation on how to fix our stitching problems, hopefully you can help!

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Re: Detecting process bug

by mediavets » Wed Nov 05, 2014 8:26 pm

Carine wrote:Mediavets, Thanks for giving it a try but I clearly asked to help me out here by explaining how exactly you fixed the stitching problems - step by step like open edit tab, hit .... etc


The panos that stitched OK required no intervention.

Those that did require intervention I could not fix.

I was not not surprised.

The panos that did stitch OK were shot outdoors with nothing too close to the camera which reduced parallax issues.

The panos that were shot indoors had featureless images and very variable exposure and parallax issues and would not stitch.
............

I appreciate that you are reluctant to accept it....but the reality is that you will not be able to get a good quality interior spherical pano shooting handheld with a smartphone with a 35mm focal length..

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