Constant Stitching Errors  

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Constant Stitching Errors

by pxlvue » Wed May 07, 2014 10:45 pm

No matter what Render options I choose I get very strange stitching errors. See screenshots;

I've calibrated the rig; Canon 5d Mkiii using Manfrotto 303SPH Tripod Head with a 15mm lens. And have tested images with a Canon 6d, 15mm And Nikon D700 using a 24mm lens. Always get the same kind of image errors, some scenes worse than others but can't find any constant variable to cause such an issue.

I've used both Smart and ISO Cutting options. ISO makes cleaner slices but still same issue of not aligning edges. Preview in APG does display the stitch correctly.

Using APG 3.5.1 64bit / OSX 10.9.2
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Screen Shot 2014-05-07 at 2.35.05 PM.png
Screen Shot 2014-05-07 at 2.34.23 PM.png
Screen Shot 2014-05-07 at 2.34.13 PM.png
Josh Latham
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Re: Constant Stitching Errors

by mediavets » Wed May 07, 2014 10:49 pm

pxlvue wrote:No matter what Render options I choose I get very strange stitching errors. See screenshots;

I've calibrated the rig; Canon 5d Mkiii using Manfrotto 303SPH Tripod Head with a 15mm lens.


Is that a 15mm fisheye lens or a 15mm rectilinear lens?

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Re: Constant Stitching Errors

by pxlvue » Wed May 07, 2014 10:56 pm

mediavets wrote:
pxlvue wrote:No matter what Render options I choose I get very strange stitching errors. See screenshots;

I've calibrated the rig; Canon 5d Mkiii using Manfrotto 303SPH Tripod Head with a 15mm lens.


Is that a 15mm fisheye lens or a 15mm rectilinear lens?


Oh sorry, Sigma 15mm f/2.8 EX DG Diagonal Fisheye Lens

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Re: Constant Stitching Errors

by HansKeesom » Wed May 07, 2014 11:10 pm

what is the computed focal length?

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Re: Constant Stitching Errors

by pxlvue » Wed May 07, 2014 11:20 pm

HansKeesom wrote:what is the computed focal length?


I'm not sure what you mean by computed focal length. Attached is a screenshot of the image properties within APG.
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Screen Shot 2014-05-07 at 3.19.19 PM.png

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Re: Constant Stitching Errors

by mediavets » Wed May 07, 2014 11:25 pm

Computed focal length:
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1-apg35-computed-focal.jpg

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Re: Constant Stitching Errors

by pxlvue » Wed May 07, 2014 11:34 pm

Thanks Mediavets!

Looks like for all images 14.18mm for all Images. However, other panos have different computed focal lengths, for instance 14.31 or 14.25. All are constant for each image per pano, just differ between panos slightly.
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Screen Shot 2014-05-07 at 3.30.09 PM.png

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Re: Constant Stitching Errors

by HansKeesom » Wed May 07, 2014 11:40 pm

oke not a huge difference there. You might want to turn off before detection the optimalisation -> optimaliation scope -> focal option but i don't think it will bring you much.
If you want me to give it a try you can upload me a set of photos and i will see what I can do with them.

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Re: Constant Stitching Errors

by pxlvue » Thu May 08, 2014 12:57 am

HansKeesom wrote:oke not a huge difference there. You might want to turn off before detection the optimalisation -> optimaliation scope -> focal option but i don't think it will bring you much.
If you want me to give it a try you can upload me a set of photos and i will see what I can do with them.


I set the Focal Option to 'Do Not Optimize' and didn't make much difference. Screenshot for my Optimization settings attached.

Much appreciated for the help! Here's a link to a set of images that were used for my examples above;

https://www.dropbox.com/sh/de5jnzlh26tuekl/SGYQHy9IPW

Thank you!
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Screen Shot 2014-05-07 at 4.55.21 PM.png

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Re: Constant Stitching Errors

by HansKeesom » Thu May 08, 2014 2:39 am

Here is the .pano file as it came out of the detection. Please open it in a directory with all the files you send. Maybe some reslection to be done and then render it. I hope it is better. It looked good at this side but it is a large file to send.
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F pxlvue_APG_Test-03 Willamette Star First Floor (1 of 36)And2more_03 Willamette Star First Floor (34 of 36)And2more-12 images.zip
(298.09 KiB) Downloaded 56 times

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Re: Constant Stitching Errors

by a a gruntpuddock » Thu May 08, 2014 5:56 am

Tried downloading that but only got the .pano file - no image files.

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Re: Constant Stitching Errors

by HansKeesom » Thu May 08, 2014 7:26 am

yes that was the idea. The original images can be combined with the pano file and then the user can generate the result him/herself.

meanwhile my result in uploaded to dropbox 1.8 GB

https://www.dropbox.com/s/5r89c7bjy5r0f ... images.psd

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Re: Constant Stitching Errors

by klausesser » Thu May 08, 2014 10:19 am

HansKeesom wrote:meanwhile my result in uploaded to dropbox 1.8 GB



How comes a pano from a 15mm fisheye resulting in THAT size?

best, Klaus

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Re: Constant Stitching Errors

by klausesser » Thu May 08, 2014 10:27 am

pxlvue wrote:No matter what Render options I choose I get very strange stitching errors. See screenshots;

I've calibrated the rig; Canon 5d Mkiii using Manfrotto 303SPH Tripod Head with a 15mm lens. And have tested images with a Canon 6d, 15mm And Nikon D700 using a 24mm lens. Always get the same kind of image errors, some scenes worse than others but can't find any constant variable to cause such an issue.

I've used both Smart and ISO Cutting options. ISO makes cleaner slices but still same issue of not aligning edges. Preview in APG does display the stitch correctly.

Using APG 3.5.1 64bit / OSX 10.9.2



Hey Josh!

Why did you shoot so much images?

Usually i have 6 images with my 5D2 and the 15mm fisheye for a full sphere with 112MPx.
Using my D800 with the 16mm fisheye i also have 6 shots - but 190MPx.

Too many shots can make a good stitch more complicated.

Here´s an example with 6 shots, Canon 5D2, Canon 15mm fisheye:

http://www.360impressions.de/ElGreco/

So i ´m irritated by your amount of shots - and by Hans´ size of 1.8GB for this pano.

"One more thing" ;) : i suggest to get rid of the rather heavy chromatic abberations.

best, Klaus

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Re: Constant Stitching Errors

by mediavets » Thu May 08, 2014 10:43 am

pxlvue wrote:
HansKeesom wrote:oke not a huge difference there. You might want to turn off before detection the optimalisation -> optimaliation scope -> focal option but i don't think it will bring you much.
If you want me to give it a try you can upload me a set of photos and i will see what I can do with them.


I set the Focal Option to 'Do Not Optimize' and didn't make much difference. Screenshot for my Optimization settings attached.

Much appreciated for the help! Here's a link to a set of images that were used for my examples above;

https://www.dropbox.com/sh/de5jnzlh26tuekl/SGYQHy9IPW

Thank you!


I was (also) very surprised by your shooting pattern - two rows of 6 at +/- 30 degrees; also surprised to see that you seem to have use an aperture of f14.0

This is not a pattern I would use with a fullframe sensor Canon body and a 15mm fisheye lens.

You end up with the pano head in shot and excessive overlapping.

You end up with links between non adjacent images which is seldom desirable.

Did you really shoots the images in the sequence the numbers in this screenshot would suggest?:
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Re: Constant Stitching Errors

by mediavets » Thu May 08, 2014 1:39 pm

pxlvue wrote:
mediavets wrote:
pxlvue wrote:No matter what Render options I choose I get very strange stitching errors. See screenshots;

I've calibrated the rig; Canon 5d Mkiii using Manfrotto 303SPH Tripod Head with a 15mm lens.


Is that a 15mm fisheye lens or a 15mm rectilinear lens?


Oh sorry, Sigma 15mm f/2.8 EX DG Diagonal Fisheye Lens


How confident are you that camera/lens is set at the NPP?

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Re: Constant Stitching Errors

by pxlvue » Thu May 08, 2014 4:47 pm

klausesser wrote:Hey Josh!

Why did you shoot so much images?

Usually i have 6 images with my 5D2 and the 15mm fisheye for a full sphere with 112MPx.
Using my D800 with the 16mm fisheye i also have 6 shots - but 190MPx.

Too many shots can make a good stitch more complicated.

Here´s an example with 6 shots, Canon 5D2, Canon 15mm fisheye:

http://www.360impressions.de/ElGreco/

So i ´m irritated by your amount of shots - and by Hans´ size of 1.8GB for this pano.

"One more thing" ;) : i suggest to get rid of the rather heavy chromatic abberations.

best, Klaus


Hi Klaus,

Shooting this number of images, we just figured we're getting good overlap coverage. I was under the assumption that more data would equal better quality and results. When rendering out we limit to 10,000 x 5,000 px at 72ppi. Which that size seems to yield best results in PTP. Which I'm also curious if that is optimal for PTP?

So you're shooting every 60º, level to the horizon plane?

I did see in your example, one spot with an error that looks like what I get often in my pano images (screenshot attached). I've noticed more irregular stitching like in my original examples in this thread with APG 3.5.1, and more like the error in your scene with APG 3.0.

I'll try a shooting pattern of 6 images and share the results.

Thanks for your notes, greatly appreciated, and I'll also remove/reduce the chromatic aberrations!


mediavets wrote:
I was (also) very surprised by your shooting pattern - two rows of 6 at +/- 30 degrees; also surprised to see that you seem to have use an aperture of f14.0

This is not a pattern I would use with a fullframe sensor Canon body and a 15mm fisheye lens.

You end up with the pano head in shot and excessive overlapping.

You end up with links between non adjacent images which is seldom desirable.

Did you really shoots the images in the sequence the numbers in this screenshot would suggest?:


Mediavets,

Yes that is the correct pattern shot by my client.

As mentioned in response to Klaus, assumed more data the better, figured more linking between non-adjacent images would just solidify the full spherical image. Also didn't think the pattern would make a difference since we have to shoot the entire room to create a full sphere. Not sure how we can reduce the tripod by changing the angle since we need that coverage anyway?

Would you also suggest a shooting pattern of 60º level with the horizon plane?

- -

Thans so much guys for your feedback!
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Re: Constant Stitching Errors

by mediavets » Thu May 08, 2014 5:11 pm

With a 15mm fisheye on a fullframe sensor body (or equivalent on a cropped sensor body) on a manual pano head I would shoot one ow two patterns:

1. A main row of 6-around at about -10 to -15 pitch - enough negative pitch to just have the edge of the pano head rotator in the bottom of the image frame. then eithe a zenith at +90, or one or two 'zenith' shots at about +60 to +65 pitch with 180 yaw separation. The latter 'zenith' options may be more likely to provide a good link between zenith nd main row if you have a plain or relatively featureless zenith area.

2. In smaller indoor locations I have found that shooting two rows of 6-around, one row as the above main row (at -10 to -15 pitch) and a second row of 6-around at about +55 works well with APG. Other 'knock' this notion but it works for me.

Both patterns will leave a relatively small 'hole' at the nadir that you can deal with in variety of ways.
Last edited by mediavets on Thu May 08, 2014 5:13 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Constant Stitching Errors

by klausesser » Thu May 08, 2014 5:12 pm

pxlvue wrote:I did see in your example, one spot with an error that looks like what I get often in my pano images (screenshot attached). I've noticed more irregular stitching like in my original examples in this thread with APG 3.5.1, and more like the error in your scene with APG 3.0.



Yes - i missed that one. (Very dark area - hard to stitch and to find errors then).

Regarding the overlap look here:
http://www.360impressions.de/Klap (deep zoomable on desktop AND on mobile devices). 700mpx, 35mm lens, 42 shots
http://www.360impressions.de/Wuppertal 700MPx and 4 GPx, 35mm and 85mm lenses. 42 and 214 shots (Old one, some few minor errors.)
http://www.360impressions.de/Wohnung 112mpx, 15m fisheye. 5 shots @-12° plus Zenith 90°.

All panos are done with just 20% overlap using the Panoneed head.

best, Klaus

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Re: Constant Stitching Errors

by pxlvue » Thu May 08, 2014 5:26 pm

HansKeesom wrote:yes that was the idea. The original images can be combined with the pano file and then the user can generate the result him/herself.

meanwhile my result in uploaded to dropbox 1.8 GB

https://www.dropbox.com/s/5r89c7bjy5r0f ... images.psd


Hi Hans, Both with the Pano file and your PSD I see the same errors. I'll try a different shooting pattern as described by Klaus and Mediavets and see if less overlap yields better results.

Thanks!

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Re: Constant Stitching Errors

by mediavets » Thu May 08, 2014 5:38 pm

pxlvue wrote:
HansKeesom wrote:yes that was the idea. The original images can be combined with the pano file and then the user can generate the result him/herself.

meanwhile my result in uploaded to dropbox 1.8 GB

https://www.dropbox.com/s/5r89c7bjy5r0f ... images.psd


Hi Hans, Both with the Pano file and your PSD I see the same errors. I'll try a different shooting pattern as described by Klaus and Mediavets and see if less overlap yields better results.

Thanks!


That sample scene of yours could easily cause the stitcher problems, there ere a lot of repetitive elements that could be mismatched by the control point detection system.

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Re: Constant Stitching Errors

by HansKeesom » Thu May 08, 2014 5:55 pm

pxlvue wrote:
HansKeesom wrote:yes that was the idea. The original images can be combined with the pano file and then the user can generate the result him/herself.

meanwhile my result in uploaded to dropbox 1.8 GB

https://www.dropbox.com/s/5r89c7bjy5r0f ... images.psd


Hi Hans, Both with the Pano file and your PSD I see the same errors. I'll try a different shooting pattern as described by Klaus and Mediavets and see if less overlap yields better results.

Thanks!

The psd was generated from the pano so that explains the fact they show the same errors. :-)

I didn't edit the pano because I had no more time for bedtime ;-)
Did it look better then your version?

I am sure I can improve on it but I am busy with commerciall work so prefer to wait for the results of the different pattern.

I noticed a lot of CA. How did you fused your stack, which programm did you use for that?

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Re: Constant Stitching Errors

by klausesser » Thu May 08, 2014 5:59 pm

mediavets wrote:. . . there ere a lot of repetitive elements that could be mismatched by the control point detection system.


Here a head which writes xml definitely has advantages - given the stitcher handles them correctly . . :cool:

Klaus

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Re: Constant Stitching Errors

by pxlvue » Thu May 08, 2014 6:13 pm

HansKeesom wrote:The psd was generated from the pano so that explains the fact they show the same errors. :-)

I didn't edit the pano because I had no more time for bedtime ;-)
Did it look better then your version?

I am sure I can improve on it but I am busy with commerciall work so prefer to wait for the results of the different pattern.

I noticed a lot of CA. How did you fused your stack, which programm did you use for that?


Both images (your PSD and the pano rendered from your APG file) had the same errors. Seems like the best thing is to see what we get with less shots. I'll be posting those results later today.

My workflow is;

    Lightroom: Edit each image, 3 brackets per shot, Expsoure and WB changes.
    Photomatix Pro: HDR Batch with Fusion/Natural settings.
    APG: Stitching: Export TIFF 72ppi 16bit @ 10,000 x 5,000 px
    Photoshop: Fix stitching errors, Dodge & Burn, adjustmetns
    Sphere to Cube krpano script: Edit cube face in PS to remove tripod
    Cube to Sphere krpano script: Make new sphere pano
    Photoshop: Merge new Sphere with old sphere image in order to keep GPS/Metadata info from original files.

I think I just need to remove the CA in Lightroom before creating the HDR set.

This is a tour using this workflow in which I had to spend a decent amount of time photoshopping out the stitching errors. http://visitingmedia.com/site/saffron-fields-vineyard/

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Re: Constant Stitching Errors

by HansKeesom » Thu May 08, 2014 8:33 pm

I would suggest to consider skipping lightroom and do CA and noise in photomatix. Gives enough quality and improves stitching. But that might be a matter of tast and feel for quality.

APG should be able to fix all stitching errors, use photoshop just to clean things up here and there.

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