The RoundsShot wizard is a mystery..  

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Destiny
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The RoundsShot wizard is a mystery..

by Destiny » Wed Mar 05, 2014 4:05 am

I really do not get that.. APG had the Plugin in 3.0.8 for the first time, but it never worked and it also has the Plugin in 3.5+.. but that doesn't work either...

Its never worked.. I added my XML code, I added my bracketed images yet they do not show. In fact the XML option is not even active.. So.. Either I am missing something, or it doesn't work.. Pappy Wizard accepts the images and XML code but I am not sure that even work correctly..

So, who knows the mystery of the missing images and unresponsive XML code.. Has Kolor actually used the current VR Drive firmware to create their plugin. Is that the issue... :rolleyes:

Destiny..
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Roundshotsupport.jpg
RoundshotWiz.jpg

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Re: The RoundsShot wizard is a mystery..

by AlexandreJ » Wed Mar 05, 2014 9:28 am

Dear Destiny,

The button you are highlighting is not about the XML coordinates, it is about the focal length.
It still happens that if you use on the VRDrive2 or any papywizard panoramic head, that the focal length stored in the EXIF of input images which comes directly from the camera, and the focal length stored in the XML are different. Why are they different ?
- because you didn't selected the right camera in the VRDrive menu, or papywizard menu
- because the sensor scale coded in the vrdrive2 is not the same as the the one from autopano
- because you used a manual lens which doesn't give any information back to the camera, etc
There are several cases where this can happen.

So in the vrdrive2/papywizard plugin, we detect if both focal lengths are the same or not. If not the same ( BTW: you have a big red warning text in first tab of the plugin ), and only in that case, you can use these buttons to say that the right focal length is the one recorded in the XML file or the one in the EXIF data.
This is the only case where you should use that button.

Now, my question is: if everything is well set up ( good XML and good images ), does the VRDrive2 plugin work out of the box ?

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Re: The RoundsShot wizard is a mystery..

by mediavets » Wed Mar 05, 2014 9:50 am

AlexandreJ wrote:Dear Destiny,

The button you are highlighting is not about the XML coordinates, it is about the focal length.
It still happens that if you use on the VRDrive2 or any papywizard panoramic head, that the focal length stored in the EXIF of input images which comes directly from the camera, and the focal length stored in the XML are different. Why are they different ?
- because you didn't selected the right camera in the VRDrive menu, or papywizard menu
- because the sensor scale coded in the vrdrive2 is not the same as the the one from autopano
- because you used a manual lens which doesn't give any information back to the camera, etc
There are several cases where this can happen.

So in the vrdrive2/papywizard plugin, we detect if both focal lengths are the same or not. If not the same ( BTW: you have a big red warning text in first tab of the plugin ), and only in that case, you can use these buttons to say that the right focal length is the one recorded in the XML file or the one in the EXIF data.
This is the only case where you should use that button.

Now, my question is: if everything is well set up ( good XML and good images ), does the VRDrive2 plugin work out of the box ?


I think Destiny is using her D800 - in DX mode - with the Nikkor 10.5mm fisheye, with TIF images that (I presume) have been prepocessed from RAW (NEF).

With 84 images she must be using exposure bracketing but the Import wizard doesn't seem to have picked that up from the XML?

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Re: The RoundsShot wizard is a mystery..

by Destiny » Wed Mar 05, 2014 9:53 am

"Now, my question is: if everything is well set up ( good XML and good images ), does the VRDrive2 plugin work out of the box ?"

Nope! Unless the "Box" has screws on it.. I add the xml, provide the location of the images.. Nothing happens after that. :(
I have tried added the RAW and I have tried adding the JPGs as shot nothing edited.. The Roundshot Plugin does not work..... I can make a video if you would like...

Destiny...

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Re: The RoundsShot wizard is a mystery..

by Destiny » Wed Mar 05, 2014 9:56 am

I did try providing a location to the TIFs Andrew.. They do not work either.. Nothing works.. And yes, I am using my D800, auto to DX with my 10.5 fisheye.. I think the is beginning to tell the story of why my images do not work as well with APG.. I am certain there is an issue with a FX camera and a DX lens.. but... who knows.... :rolleyes:

Destiny..

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Re: The RoundsShot wizard is a mystery..

by mediavets » Wed Mar 05, 2014 9:56 am

Destiny wrote:"Now, my question is: if everything is well set up ( good XML and good images ), does the VRDrive2 plugin work out of the box ?"

Nope! Unless the "Box" has screws on it.. I add the xml, provide the location of the images.. Nothing happens after that. :(
I have tried added the RAW and I have tried adding the JPGs as shot nothing edited.. The Roundshot Plugin does not work..... I can make a video if you would like...

Destiny...


What bracketing were you using for that 84 image set?

Is the bracketing recorded in the XML file?

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Re: The RoundsShot wizard is a mystery..

by mediavets » Wed Mar 05, 2014 9:58 am

Destiny wrote:I did try providing a location to the TIFs Andrew.. They do not work either.. Nothing works.. And yes, I am using my D800, auto to DX with my 10.5 fisheye.. I think the is beginning to tell the story of why my images do not work as well with APG.. ]I am certain there is an issue with a FX camera and a DX lens.. but... who knows.... :rolleyes:

Destiny..


You could test that by shooting with your D90 and the 10.5 FE.

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Re: The RoundsShot wizard is a mystery..

by Destiny » Wed Mar 05, 2014 10:05 am

When using my VR Drive, I have two options.. D90 and D800.. I select the D800.. There is no more I can do with that. At the bottom of this code it state D800.. So what should I be doing to make the Roundshot Wizard work... I have all the lasted Firmware software on my VR Drive.. I have the correct camera used.. I select Fisheye 15mm.. for my 10.5mm Nikon Fisheye.. What more can I do.. When I open APG I do not have access to the Lens and Camera types until the images are loaded.. I just the Wizard icon and chose the Roundshot.. From there is just about automatic.. Well, it is with Papywizard..

Destiny..

<?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8"?>
<Program Version="8">
<GeneralData>
<ProgramNumber>17</ProgramNumber>
<Mode>4</Mode>
<AngleMode>1</AngleMode>
<FocalLength>15</FocalLength>
<AZentrum>71</AZentrum>
<BNodalpunkt>31</BNodalpunkt>
<StartAngleX>0</StartAngleX>
<StartAngleY>0</StartAngleY>
<AngleX>3600</AngleX>
<AngleY>1800</AngleY>
<OverlapX>33</OverlapX>
<OverlapY>33</OverlapY>
<Smoothening>0</Smoothening>
<Sequence>2</Sequence>
<SpeedX>6</SpeedX>
<SpeedY>10</SpeedY>
<ReleaseTime>1</ReleaseTime>
<PauseBefore>10</PauseBefore>
<PauseAfter>10</PauseAfter>
<Repetition>0</Repetition>
<RepetitionDelay>0</RepetitionDelay>
<Ramp>100</Ramp>
<Bracketing>0</Bracketing>
<HDRContTimer>10</HDRContTimer>
<Manual>0</Manual>
<MirrorPrerelTimer>0</MirrorPrerelTimer>
<MirrorPrerelMode>0</MirrorPrerelMode>
<OrientClockwise>0</OrientClockwise>
<CameraOrientation>0</CameraOrientation>
<YOffset>0</YOffset>
<LensType>0</LensType>
<ForceNadir>0</ForceNadir>
<AvIsoAsa>0</AvIsoAsa>
<ApertureStep>1</ApertureStep>
<SequenceSpeed>0</SequenceSpeed>
<ApertureCompensation>0</ApertureCompensation>
<AvShutterSpeed>9</AvShutterSpeed>
<AvAperture>4</AvAperture>
<TimelapseMode>0</TimelapseMode>
<ImageReleaseMode>0</ImageReleaseMode>
<TurntableSize>0</TurntableSize>
<PhotoNumber>0</PhotoNumber>
<USBConnected>0</USBConnected>
<ReleaseWithUSBCable>0</ReleaseWithUSBCable>
<WhitebalanceChanging>0</WhitebalanceChanging>
<ReadingExposuretime>0</ReadingExposuretime>
<MemoryCheck>2</MemoryCheck>
<ReleaseControl>1</ReleaseControl>
<UseableMemory>90</UseableMemory>
<RepeatOffsetAngle>0</RepeatOffsetAngle>
<ExposureReferenceType>2</ExposureReferenceType>
<ManualModeChanging>0</ManualModeChanging>
</GeneralData>
<ArrayData>
<CtrlPoints>
</CtrlPoints>
<Rows>
<Row nr="0" Photos="6" YAngle="50.0"></Row>
<Row nr="1" Photos="6" YAngle="-15.0"></Row>
</Rows>
<HDR>
<HDRStep nr="0" ShutterSpeed="0" Aperture="4" IsoAsa="0"></HDRStep>
<HDRStep nr="1" ShutterSpeed="3" Aperture="4" IsoAsa="0"></HDRStep>
<HDRStep nr="2" ShutterSpeed="6" Aperture="4" IsoAsa="0"></HDRStep>
<HDRStep nr="3" ShutterSpeed="9" Aperture="4" IsoAsa="0"></HDRStep>
<HDRStep nr="4" ShutterSpeed="12" Aperture="4" IsoAsa="0"></HDRStep>
<HDRStep nr="5" ShutterSpeed="15" Aperture="4" IsoAsa="0"></HDRStep>
<HDRStep nr="6" ShutterSpeed="18" Aperture="4" IsoAsa="0"></HDRStep>
</HDR>
</ArrayData>
<SpecialData>
<Text>HDR NEW</Text>
<Camera Used="1" Brand="Nikon" ID="1" Name="D800" SensorXmm="3600" SensorYmm="2390" MtpDataAdress="927744" HashCode="40030512"></Camera>
</SpecialData>
</Program>

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Re: The RoundsShot wizard is a mystery..

by Destiny » Wed Mar 05, 2014 10:06 am

I think the issue might be.. Kolor has made the Roundshot Wizard for the standard default software and NOT the HDR software..

Destiny...

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Re: The RoundsShot wizard is a mystery..

by mediavets » Wed Mar 05, 2014 10:22 am

Destiny wrote:When using my VR Drive, I have two options.. D90 and D800.. I select the D800.. There is no more I can do with that. At the bottom of this code it state D800.. So what should I be doing to make the Roundshot Wizard work... I have all the lasted Firmware software on my VR Drive.. I have the correct camera used.. I select Fisheye 15mm.. for my 10.5mm Nikon Fisheye.. What more can I do.. When I open APG I do not have access to the Lens and Camera types until the images are loaded.. I just the Wizard icon and chose the Roundshot.. From there is just about automatic.. Well, it is with Papywizard..

Destiny..

<?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8"?>
<Program Version="8">
<GeneralData>
<ProgramNumber>17</ProgramNumber>
<Mode>4</Mode>
<AngleMode>1</AngleMode>
<FocalLength>15</FocalLength>
<AZentrum>71</AZentrum>
<BNodalpunkt>31</BNodalpunkt>
<StartAngleX>0</StartAngleX>
<StartAngleY>0</StartAngleY>
<AngleX>3600</AngleX>
<AngleY>1800</AngleY>
<OverlapX>33</OverlapX>
<OverlapY>33</OverlapY>
<Smoothening>0</Smoothening>
<Sequence>2</Sequence>
<SpeedX>6</SpeedX>
<SpeedY>10</SpeedY>
<ReleaseTime>1</ReleaseTime>
<PauseBefore>10</PauseBefore>
<PauseAfter>10</PauseAfter>
<Repetition>0</Repetition>
<RepetitionDelay>0</RepetitionDelay>
<Ramp>100</Ramp>
<Bracketing>0</Bracketing>
<HDRContTimer>10</HDRContTimer>
<Manual>0</Manual>
<MirrorPrerelTimer>0</MirrorPrerelTimer>
<MirrorPrerelMode>0</MirrorPrerelMode>
<OrientClockwise>0</OrientClockwise>
<CameraOrientation>0</CameraOrientation>
<YOffset>0</YOffset>
<LensType>0</LensType>
<ForceNadir>0</ForceNadir>
<AvIsoAsa>0</AvIsoAsa>
<ApertureStep>1</ApertureStep>
<SequenceSpeed>0</SequenceSpeed>
<ApertureCompensation>0</ApertureCompensation>
<AvShutterSpeed>9</AvShutterSpeed>
<AvAperture>4</AvAperture>
<TimelapseMode>0</TimelapseMode>
<ImageReleaseMode>0</ImageReleaseMode>
<TurntableSize>0</TurntableSize>
<PhotoNumber>0</PhotoNumber>
<USBConnected>0</USBConnected>
<ReleaseWithUSBCable>0</ReleaseWithUSBCable>
<WhitebalanceChanging>0</WhitebalanceChanging>
<ReadingExposuretime>0</ReadingExposuretime>
<MemoryCheck>2</MemoryCheck>
<ReleaseControl>1</ReleaseControl>
<UseableMemory>90</UseableMemory>
<RepeatOffsetAngle>0</RepeatOffsetAngle>
<ExposureReferenceType>2</ExposureReferenceType>
<ManualModeChanging>0</ManualModeChanging>
</GeneralData>
<ArrayData>
<CtrlPoints>
</CtrlPoints>
<Rows>
<Row nr="0" Photos="6" YAngle="50.0"></Row>
<Row nr="1" Photos="6" YAngle="-15.0"></Row>
</Rows>
<HDR>
<HDRStep nr="0" ShutterSpeed="0" Aperture="4" IsoAsa="0"></HDRStep>
<HDRStep nr="1" ShutterSpeed="3" Aperture="4" IsoAsa="0"></HDRStep>
<HDRStep nr="2" ShutterSpeed="6" Aperture="4" IsoAsa="0"></HDRStep>
<HDRStep nr="3" ShutterSpeed="9" Aperture="4" IsoAsa="0"></HDRStep>
<HDRStep nr="4" ShutterSpeed="12" Aperture="4" IsoAsa="0"></HDRStep>
<HDRStep nr="5" ShutterSpeed="15" Aperture="4" IsoAsa="0"></HDRStep>
<HDRStep nr="6" ShutterSpeed="18" Aperture="4" IsoAsa="0"></HDRStep>
</HDR>
</ArrayData>
<SpecialData>
<Text>HDR NEW</Text>
<Camera Used="1" Brand="Nikon" ID="1" Name="D800" SensorXmm="3600" SensorYmm="2390" MtpDataAdress="927744" HashCode="40030512"></Camera>
</SpecialData>
</Program>


What is that file - I guess it's a sort of preset file fro the VRDrive2?

I can't immediately spot anything to say it's operating in DX mode.

What does Seitz have to say about setup inputs when you are using the FX D800 in DX mode with a DX lens?

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Re: The RoundsShot wizard is a mystery..

by mediavets » Wed Mar 05, 2014 10:38 am

Destiny wrote:I really do not get that.. APG had the Plugin in 3.0.8 for the first time, but it never worked and it also has the Plugin in 3.5+.. but that doesn't work either...

Its never worked.. I added my XML code, I added my bracketed images yet they do not show. In fact the XML option is not even active.. So.. Either I am missing something, or it doesn't work.. Pappy Wizard accepts the images and XML code but I am not sure that even work correctly..

So, who knows the mystery of the missing images and unresponsive XML code.. Has Kolor actually used the current VR Drive firmware to create their plugin. Is that the issue... :rolleyes:

Destiny..


You appear to have opened an XML file in the wizard that is not a VRDrive2 data file - not a file recording shoot data.

Perhaps it's a preset (shoot definition) file?

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Re: The RoundsShot wizard is a mystery..

by AlexandreJ » Wed Mar 05, 2014 10:51 am

The VRDrive2 has it's own file format ( this is the one you showed you Destiny ).
To be able to use the wizard, you need to export the Papywizard XML from within the vrdrive2 menu.
( look into the documentation, I don't remember ).

Then you'll have the good XML and everything is straightforward ( and of course we support HDR ).


documentation here, page 77 and 84
http://www.roundshot.ch/documents/Roundshot_VR_Drive_2_instruction_manual.pdf

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Re: The RoundsShot wizard is a mystery..

by Destiny » Wed Mar 05, 2014 10:59 am

OK.. so what am I supposed to use. I have two options on my VR Drive.. Export the Papywizard or the Seitz.. I am assuming that the Seitz is the Roundshot xml.. Surly I do not use the Papywizard xml with the Roundshot plugin.. After I export this is what I see below.. The first xml group is the Papywizard, the second group of xml code is the Seitz.. There is nothing more to use with the Roundshot plugin..

What am I missing....

Destiny...
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xml-VR-Drive.jpg

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Re: The RoundsShot wizard is a mystery..

by Destiny » Wed Mar 05, 2014 11:10 am

So.. It seems I am suppose to use the Papywizard with the Roundshot Wizard... emmmmmm.. and I do not think the Papywizard works too well so thats a bit of a oh hum.. So, if Papywizard did not exist, then the Roundshot Wizard would not either.. I think I have a headache.. At last something must be happening.. The RMS are Excellent.. I have no idea if the pano is good since it won't render.. NOT ENOUGH MEMORY.. AGAIN!!.. So I will reboot and start again.. I do not think it was worth buying the extra 4GIG..:rolleyes:

Destiny...
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Re: The RoundsShot wizard is a mystery..

by mediavets » Wed Mar 05, 2014 11:12 am

AlexandreJ wrote:The VRDrive2 has it's own file format ( this is the one you showed you Destiny ).
To be able to use the wizard, you need to export the Papywizard XML from within the vrdrive2 menu.
( look into the documentation, I don't remember ).

Then you'll have the good XML and everything is straightforward ( and of course we support HDR ).


documentation here, page 77 and 84
http://www.roundshot.ch/documents/Roundshot_VR_Drive_2_instruction_manual.pdf


The Papywizard 'compatible' XML data file from the VRDrive 2 - judging by an example Destiny provided - is not totally compliant with the 'c' standard - for example, it is still using the deprecated intent attribute for bracketing and it doesn't seem to record the sensor aspect ratio, amongst other things.
......

Aside from that both the VRDrive2 and Papywizard Import wizards allow the user to specify various options for handling Stacks.

However I don't see where/how one can set the Reference level.

A related issue is that there appears to be no way to set stacks manually for those cases where there may be no EXIF data or where for some other reason bracketing was not/defined set in the XML file.
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1-pw-wizard-stacks.jpg
Last edited by mediavets on Wed Mar 05, 2014 2:36 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: The RoundsShot wizard is a mystery..

by klausesser » Wed Mar 05, 2014 12:40 pm

Destiny wrote:I am certain there is an issue with a FX camera and a DX lens.. but... who knows.... :rolleyes:



when i ran a test at a friend´s place with D800 and his Nikon 10.5mm DX fisheye two weeks ago it worked fine . .

Klaus

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Re: The RoundsShot wizard is a mystery..

by Destiny » Thu Mar 06, 2014 10:19 am

OK... Now we have established that deep down I am blond, which makes the IQ test a bit of a mockery since I scored 185 which is supposed to be high.. After which I received some 'Join us" emails.. emmmm..

Anyway.. I am achieving an "Excellent" RMS using my XML code created my my VR Drive.. But.. I am still getting an indent on my Zenith.. So.. what can be causing this.. Is this my NNP or is this APG..

Also.. I have asked Alexandre that APG creates its own 'True XML code' after the user adds their Shooting Pattern, Lens, Camera data detail etc etc.... In my view this is an essential feature which Alexandre has acknowledged so it will be added to APG in time... If I just add my image into APG, I achieve a RMS of 4.30 +/- but using Papywizard XML with the Roundshot plugin I achieve a RMS of 2.90 or less.. Resulting in "Excellent".. and its true, the stitching is perfect but.... If I add my image without the XML code, this results in a much higher RMS and accordingly my stitching is not so perfect..

Therefore, having XML code to assist in the stitching is going to be an awesome feature if APG can create its very own version independent of any other so Kolor will then have full control over it, with any updates etc...

Destiny..
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RAM-difference.jpg
indentzenith.jpg

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Re: The RoundsShot wizard is a mystery..

by AlexandreJ » Thu Mar 06, 2014 10:24 am

In v3.5, we added a feature to generate a papywizard XML file from a good well stitched panorama. So you have a .pano, you can export to XML. And then use papywizard to prevent any issue that can arise.

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Re: The RoundsShot wizard is a mystery..

by Destiny » Thu Mar 06, 2014 10:34 am

Hey Alex, can you please dumb that down a bit.. LOL... .. Step 1+>

;)

Destiny...

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Re: The RoundsShot wizard is a mystery..

by Destiny » Thu Mar 06, 2014 10:44 am

Ok.. Here is my Perfect Stitch using APG 3.5+, "Out Of The Box" NO extra editing, as long as I use the XML code generated by my VR Drive.. The pano is not perfect if I do not use XML code. I will continue to be the biggest Kolor 'pain in the neck'.. I mean ... biggest Kolor fan ;), until APG works "Out Of The Box" WITHOUT XML CODE..... unless using the Kolor generated XML code, when I work out if it is as I have asked for... :rolleyes:

Destiny...
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Re: The RoundsShot wizard is a mystery..

by Destiny » Thu Mar 06, 2014 10:51 am

... PS.. This pano is not only perfectly stitched, its sharp.. Which has been my aim for a long time.. I only wish I was sitting in the Kolor office with a stick.. prodding them... but they really do not need me sitting behind them since APG is developing well... . but... it still needs more.. hey.. I always want more...

PPS.. You might notice my beautiful nice new chair.. This was my birthday present from my wonderful granny... :)

I check the post box every day for any 'Overseas Parcel' that might arrive from some mob called Kolor but.. I guess I will rust if I was made of metal waiting for it.... LOL..

Destiny...

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Re: The RoundsShot wizard is a mystery..

by Destiny » Thu Mar 06, 2014 1:37 pm

I rendered the same pano as True HDR Radiance 32 bit TIF.. I then edited it to a 16 bit HDR Tone Mapped TIF.... Strange how the the Fathers Day card has a plink glow... emmmm

Destiny...
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HDRopp.jpg

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Re: The RoundsShot wizard is a mystery..

by Destiny » Thu Mar 06, 2014 10:58 pm

Well, I saved my .pano file and cannot work out how to extract the xml code.. So is this WIP to come or is it a secret process..

One thing I have already mentioned, there is no point at the moment to save as your project, with a Mac, not sure about PC, since NOTHING is saved..

I open my .pano file and it has missing images... I then load my .apw setup file and NOTHING is saved.. Everything is set to default setting.. I set Hard Links, I set Exposure Fusion... The only thing that save as does, is load the images.. Thats fine I guess if you did not use XML code to load them via a Wizard.. If I do, there is absolutely no reason to save as since both files do not save any reference to the use of XML code.. So, I have to start again using the Wizard...

Destiny...
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nothingsaved.jpg

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Re: The RoundsShot wizard is a mystery..

by Destiny » Thu Mar 06, 2014 11:08 pm

As you can see above, I achieve Excellent with low RMS using xml code resulting in a perfect stitching which is also sharp with the xml to assist in the stitching.. But, If I just load my images using no xml code, my RMS almost double and the stitching is not perfect.. Not so obvious in many ways except I now its not right due to the lack of sharpness in the pano image.. This is caused by a very slight miss alinement of images.. Other places its more obvious with a a visual missed stitch.. The question is.. Why should this be since I used a VR Drive to capture the images.. Surely APG can do better than this.. Not everyone has XML code to assist in the stitching... Which bring me back to my request for Kolor to have its own XML code generator..

Destiny..

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Re: The RoundsShot wizard is a mystery..

by mediavets » Thu Mar 06, 2014 11:37 pm

Destiny wrote:Well, I saved my .pano file and cannot work out how to extract the xml code.. So is this WIP to come or is it a secret process..
Destiny...

Here:
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