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PostPosted: Sun Aug 18, 2013 8:30 pm 
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mediavets wrote:
klausesser wrote:
I couldn´t clearly identify what´s the OP´s original complaint was exactly about.

As I understood it, it was that he wanted to make the stitching/renedering process as automatic as possible because he was using unsklilled operators to do the work.

So he didn't want the operator to have to check and set/reset the APP/APG global settings to overcome the lack of lens EXIF data from his Samyang FE.

Right - i understood that too. That´s why i suggested what i suggested :cool:

mediavets wrote:
Instead he wanted the APP/APG Import wizard to read the lenstype value from the XML data file.
It seems to me that the latter is not an unreasonable request/expectation.

Tell Kolor ;)

mediavets wrote:
Although whether it's really credible to use totally untrained/unskilled operators to do the work is a different matter.

. . .

And that's just what he didn't want (his unskilled operators) to have to do.

Using the same settings all the time you´ll have exactly THAT using APG also.

There are solutions which work fully automated - Spheron, LizardQ, Civetta . . . they all are designed for being used by absolutely untrained staff.
They carry a stick with the data to the office and there a PC does the rest - also fully automated.

Pity - they cost around 25000-50000.-€ . . . :cool:

best, Klaus

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Last edited by klausesser on Sun Aug 18, 2013 8:31 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Sun Aug 18, 2013 8:41 pm 
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klausesser wrote:
Using the same settings all the time you´ll have exactly THAT using APG also.

best, Klaus

I think the issue is that they don't shoot all their panos with the same camera/lens setup.

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Many different Nodal Ninja and Agnos pano heads. Merlin/Panogear mount with Papywizard on Nokia Internet tablets.
Nikon D5100 and D40, Sigma 8mm f3.5 FE, Nikon 10.5mm FE, 35mm, 50mm, 18-55mm, 70-210mm. Promote control.


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 18, 2013 8:49 pm 
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mediavets wrote:
klausesser wrote:
Using the same settings all the time you´ll have exactly THAT using APG also.

best, Klaus

I think the issue is that they don't shoot all their panos with the same camera/lens setup.

Well then: how would it work automatically?

best, Klaus

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PostPosted: Sun Aug 18, 2013 8:51 pm 
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klausesser wrote:
mediavets wrote:
klausesser wrote:
Using the same settings all the time you´ll have exactly THAT using APG also.

best, Klaus

I think the issue is that they don't shoot all their panos with the same camera/lens setup.

Well then: how would it work automatically?

best, Klaus

Well ... shooting with a VRDrive2 IF APP/APG Import Wizard read both focal length AND the lenstype from the XML data file then it could work automatically I think?

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Andrew Stephens
Many different Nodal Ninja and Agnos pano heads. Merlin/Panogear mount with Papywizard on Nokia Internet tablets.
Nikon D5100 and D40, Sigma 8mm f3.5 FE, Nikon 10.5mm FE, 35mm, 50mm, 18-55mm, 70-210mm. Promote control.


Last edited by mediavets on Sun Aug 18, 2013 8:53 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Sun Aug 18, 2013 8:54 pm 
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mediavets wrote:
klausesser wrote:
mediavets wrote:
I think the issue is that they don't shoot all their panos with the same camera/lens setup.

Well then: how would it work automatically?

best, Klaus

Well shooting with a VRDrive2 IF APP/APG Import Wizard read both focal length AND the lenstype from the XML data file then it could work automatically I think?

Yes it could work automatically - as long as you use proven equipment providing EXIFs.

Klaus

PS - a word on "automated": i understand when users dream of automatically working things.

But automation always means compromises - either regarding the effect or effecting the costs . .
Some years ago i had a V8/5,4L motorized car with automatic: the automatic sucked away about 40 from 250PS.

I mean - still enough left . . :D - but a compromise nevertheless. Just for comfort.

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Last edited by klausesser on Sun Aug 18, 2013 9:05 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Sun Aug 18, 2013 9:00 pm 
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klausesser wrote:
mediavets wrote:
klausesser wrote:
Well then: how would it work automatically?

best, Klaus

Well shooting with a VRDrive2 IF APP/APG Import Wizard read both focal length AND the lenstype from the XML data file then it could work automatically I think?

Yes it could work automatically - as long as you use proven equipment providing EXIFs.

Klaus

If the Import Wizard read the focal length (which it does) AND the lenstype (which it doesn't seem to at present) from the XML then those values don't need to be in the EXIF?

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Andrew Stephens
Many different Nodal Ninja and Agnos pano heads. Merlin/Panogear mount with Papywizard on Nokia Internet tablets.
Nikon D5100 and D40, Sigma 8mm f3.5 FE, Nikon 10.5mm FE, 35mm, 50mm, 18-55mm, 70-210mm. Promote control.


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 18, 2013 9:15 pm 
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mediavets wrote:
If the Import Wizard read the focal length (which it does) AND the lenstype (which it doesn't seem to at present) from the XML then those values don't need to be in the EXIF?

Does the Sunnex provide EXIFs btw.?

Klaus

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PostPosted: Sun Aug 18, 2013 9:37 pm 
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klausesser wrote:
mediavets wrote:
If the Import Wizard read the focal length (which it does) AND the lenstype (which it doesn't seem to at present) from the XML then those values don't need to be in the EXIF?

Does the Sunnex provide EXIFs btw.?

Klaus

Yes and no - I have read that it does on Nikon bodies but not on Canon bodies, although it's said that neither lens mount has any electrical contacts, so that doesn't seem to make sense to me. Perhaps someone was using the "Non-CPU Lens Data" feature to enter lens data manually with a Nikon?

But apparently the 5.6mm focal length is rounded up to 6mm which means crop circle is incorrect with PTGui.

http://michel.thoby.free.fr/Sunex_SuperFisheye/Test_report.html

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Andrew Stephens
Many different Nodal Ninja and Agnos pano heads. Merlin/Panogear mount with Papywizard on Nokia Internet tablets.
Nikon D5100 and D40, Sigma 8mm f3.5 FE, Nikon 10.5mm FE, 35mm, 50mm, 18-55mm, 70-210mm. Promote control.


Last edited by mediavets on Sun Aug 18, 2013 10:22 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 19, 2013 6:44 pm 
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You can program a Nikon to hack it's own EXIF.....in that case you have to "tell" the Nikon it's using a 5.6 mm lens and it will ad that to the EXIF data....

The infamous Ken has written about it:

http://www.kenrockwell.com/nikon/cheapskate-lenses.htm

Maybe a way round things as well......brilliant thought......( if you enter a manual focus lens' data in the Non-CPU Lens Data menu (towards the bottom of the wrench menu), you'll get full Color Matrix metering, Auto exposure and EXIF data. ).

Greets, Ed.

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 19, 2013 9:23 pm 
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Artisan New wrote:
You can program a Nikon to hack it's own EXIF.....in that case you have to "tell" the Nikon it's using a 5.6 mm lens and it will ad that to the EXIF data....

The infamous Ken has written about it:

http://www.kenrockwell.com/nikon/cheapskate-lenses.htm

Maybe a way round things as well......brilliant thought......( if you enter a manual focus lens' data in the Non-CPU Lens Data menu (towards the bottom of the wrench menu), you'll get full Color Matrix metering, Auto exposure and EXIF data. ).

Greets, Ed.

On the D800 you can type in the values of several non-cpu lenses in terms of focal length and aperture. With Ai lenses the aperture-ring is coupled to the meter. Focal and aperture are recorded in the EXIFs.
Lens model (fe or rect) is not recorded this way.

But as said before - let´s define what we´re taking about:

Untrained people shooting and processing panos. Most likely they will use the same lens all the time - changig lenses and changing settings would overstrain their abilities.

So it comes to use a fisheye for, let´s say: 90% of the shoots.

Having made a template for a particular lens is the very same - and sometimes better - as having EXIFs.

The easiest way to automate a shooting is to define a dedicated pattern and workflow. Shootig accordingly to the pattern and processing the images with the template can be done FULLY AUTOMATED even when there´s not a single bit of EXIFs in sight.

You don´t need to be trained at all pushing a "start" button.

Another thing is to use completely untrained people for producing panos . . . :rolleyes::cool:

Klaus

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 19, 2013 10:44 pm 
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klausesser wrote:
The easiest way to automate a shooting is to define a dedicated pattern and workflow. Shootig accordingly to the pattern and processing the images with the template can be done FULLY AUTOMATED even when there´s not a single bit of EXIFs in sight.

Klaus

Are you talking about PTGui in this case?

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Andrew Stephens
Many different Nodal Ninja and Agnos pano heads. Merlin/Panogear mount with Papywizard on Nokia Internet tablets.
Nikon D5100 and D40, Sigma 8mm f3.5 FE, Nikon 10.5mm FE, 35mm, 50mm, 18-55mm, 70-210mm. Promote control.


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 20, 2013 9:14 am 
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mediavets wrote:
klausesser wrote:
The easiest way to automate a shooting is to define a dedicated pattern and workflow. Shootig accordingly to the pattern and processing the images with the template can be done FULLY AUTOMATED even when there´s not a single bit of EXIFs in sight.

Klaus

Are you talking about PTGui in this case?

I´m talking about APG.

Klaus

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Simplicity is the keynote of all true elegance. Coco Chanel


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 20, 2013 9:26 am 
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klausesser wrote:
mediavets wrote:
klausesser wrote:
The easiest way to automate a shooting is to define a dedicated pattern and workflow. Shootig accordingly to the pattern and processing the images with the template can be done FULLY AUTOMATED even when there´s not a single bit of EXIFs in sight.

Klaus

Are you talking about PTGui in this case?

I´m talking about APG.

Klaus

So does a template work as well as an XML file in your experience?

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Andrew Stephens
Many different Nodal Ninja and Agnos pano heads. Merlin/Panogear mount with Papywizard on Nokia Internet tablets.
Nikon D5100 and D40, Sigma 8mm f3.5 FE, Nikon 10.5mm FE, 35mm, 50mm, 18-55mm, 70-210mm. Promote control.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Aug 20, 2013 5:46 pm 
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mediavets wrote:
klausesser wrote:
mediavets wrote:
Are you talking about PTGui in this case?

I´m talking about APG.

Klaus

So does a template work as well as an XML file in your experience?

Basically it´s comparable i mean:

You fix values in the xml.

You fix values in the template.

BUT a template can contain processing-steps which exceeds the capabiliy of xml which the head provides. Using a template of course needs to shoot all panos ABSOLUTELY identically.

IF you do that a template provides a fully automated workflow.

On the other hand it´s questionable how precisely enough an absolutely untrained person is able to shoot . . .

But that´s another theme. We talked about a way to handle missing EXIF informations. And that can be handled by fixing the lens-values in the prefs.

best, Klaus

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Last edited by klausesser on Tue Aug 20, 2013 5:47 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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