Poor results in APP 2.5 using default settings for simple pano.  

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Bmachine
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Poor results in APP 2.5 using default settings for simple pano.

by Bmachine » Sun Feb 27, 2011 8:10 pm

This is very disappointing. Even during the 2.5 beta phase, I mentioned this problem in this thread:
http://www.autopano.net/forum/t10785-premiers-essais-de-la-giga-rc-2.5-comparaison-avec-la-version-2.09
The default settings for APP 2.5 produce unacceptably poor results. He mentioned at the time that they were going to fix this but it never was fixed. In this regard, 2.5 is actually a step backwards relative to 2.0.9. This is very puzzling because APP has always produced excellent results with the defaults.

In the release version of 2.5 APP (Mac OS 10.5.8 in my case), a simple 5 or 6 image horizontal pano assembled with the default settings will give you serious banding problems. See attached sample.

Process:
- Open APP 2.5,
- select a folder to find images
- Click Detect
- In the preview gui, click on Edit
- change projection from cylinder to spherical
- open the Render gui
- Leave all options to default and click Render

Note that I believe this same issue is being reported in a few other threads:
http://www.autopano.net/forum/t11337-what-the-preview-image-render-settings
http://www.autopano.net/forum/viewtopic.php?pid=78324#p78324

Thank you for looking into this.

iMac 24" CoredDuo 2.4Ghz 6gb ram OSX 10.5.8 system


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by Bmachine » Sun Feb 27, 2011 8:18 pm

Here are the Render settings.

This is with 6 images, 5 links between them, 250 control points
RMS is 2.44


Last edited by Bmachine on Sun Feb 27, 2011 8:21 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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by GURL » Mon Feb 28, 2011 12:00 am

If you are using Custom as Blending preset (note that this is not a recommended setting) you should click on the Advanced settings small triangle to show which options are actually selected.

Here are the settings recommended for most panos:


Last edited by GURL on Mon Feb 28, 2011 12:08 am, edited 1 time in total.
Georges

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by Bmachine » Mon Feb 28, 2011 5:19 am

Thank you George.

But as I mentioned these are the default settings. I did not change anything and custom is what comes up automatically...

Bo
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by GURL » Mon Feb 28, 2011 10:14 am

This could be a bug but (as I don't know the hidden corresponding settings) I'm not sure of that...
___

Edit: In the main APG window, when I click on the Render tab Restore Defaults button then the Anti-ghost option is selected. As a result this actually looks like a bug. Nevertheless though it's possible that the internal (not visible) options are correct (if Multiband is the selected blending, Multiband level is -4 and Remeve ghosts selected.)
Last edited by GURL on Mon Feb 28, 2011 10:46 am, edited 1 time in total.
Georges

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by AlexandreJ » Mon Feb 28, 2011 11:10 am

Issue 605 opened.

My comment : The rendering engine does work really well on any case, but it seems that something a setting is changing the rendering engine state to something not wanted. The preview shown is visually a linear blending case.
Could you try this test : click on antighost, advanced setting and set the level to "-3" ( to force the change ). Then do the rendering again.


BTW : the quoted thread in the beginning of the first topic is solved. It was an engine issue and not a setting issue.

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by Bmachine » Mon Feb 28, 2011 5:13 pm

Thank you Georges and Alexandre.

I will try your test when I get home tonight.

Bo.
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by renan » Tue Mar 01, 2011 9:34 am

Default settings can be obsolete if a beta version of APG 2.5 have been installed.
To correct this, uninstall APG 2.5 and reinstall it. Registry will be cleaned and good default values will be set.

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by GURL » Tue Mar 01, 2011 10:08 am

renan wrote:Default settings can be obsolete if a beta version of APG 2.5 have been installed.

- Obsolete = wrong, inappropriate ?
- What about projects saved with alpha, beta or RC ?
- Could this explain some of the complains about 2.5 stitches being inferior to previous ones ?
Georges

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by klausesser » Tue Mar 01, 2011 12:09 pm

renan wrote:Default settings can be obsolete if a beta version of APG 2.5 have been installed.
To correct this, uninstall APG 2.5 and reinstall it. Registry will be cleaned and good default values will be set.

There also might be an issue with 10.5. here - i strongly recomend 10.6.6

best, Klaus
Simplicity is the keynote of all true elegance. Coco Chanel

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by AlexandreJ » Tue Mar 01, 2011 1:20 pm

GURL wrote:- Obsolete = wrong, inappropriate ?

We did rename the index for the blender when doing the new engine. That had bad consequence on the code. We changed that back in RC2 and final.
So except the case of a wrong settings that were still stored in the setting, everything should be okay.
=> that's why the solution for getting everything back is just uninstall et reinstall +> It erases the settings and put everything back to a known state.

GURL wrote:- What about projects saved with alpha, beta or RC ?

We have extra steps in the code to be sure we stay compatible with these datas.

GURL wrote:- Could this explain some of the complains about 2.5 stitches being inferior to previous ones ?

It depends on the case. On our terabyte database, globally, it is really better, but on some individual cases it can be worth. Most time, these are cases with either low overlapping, low details, or repeating patterns. These are cases complicated to stitch in 2.0, they are still complicated to stitch in 2.5.

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by klausesser » Tue Mar 01, 2011 1:46 pm

AlexandreJ wrote:. . . details, or repeating patterns. These are cases complicated to stitch in 2.0, they are still complicated to stitch in 2.5.

Right - that´s an everlasting problem from the beginning. But really complicated motives are rare - and i don´t know any better stitcher in the end than APG, to be honest! (and i don´t know any more engaged staff!)

best, Klaus
Last edited by klausesser on Tue Mar 01, 2011 1:49 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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by Bmachine » Tue Mar 01, 2011 4:08 pm

I did the test suggested by Alexandre.

The results was indeed much better. Good clean blending like we are used to with APP. Only one minor stitching problem over the horizon. But his can easily be fixed in Photoshop.


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by Bmachine » Tue Mar 01, 2011 4:10 pm

But here is the interesting part. I then decided to reproduce the "bad behavior" as a proof of fix. I quit APP, relaunch it and then redo the pano exactly as described in the first post, ie all default settings. And now the bad blending is less but still evident in different areas... A programmer's nightmare: inconsistent results!

See blending artifact on the left.

Note that the "glitch" on the horizon has now disappeared.


Last edited by Bmachine on Tue Mar 01, 2011 8:53 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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by AlexandreJ » Tue Mar 01, 2011 4:11 pm

Could you please explain what you did clearly ?

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by Bmachine » Tue Mar 01, 2011 4:15 pm

Third test:

When I click on the little Folder icon to select the folder where to find the images, there is a "Restore Default" button. I click on that button, then go through the whole process again. I noticed that, by default, the "Custom" is still selected in the Render gui. And the results are now... back to the original (bad) blending. Here is the image:


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by Bmachine » Tue Mar 01, 2011 4:17 pm

As far as Uninstall goes... I don't see a utility for "Uninstall". Usually it is drag and drop out of the Applications folder. Does APP have an Uninstall utility someplace?

Or is there a pref file that can simply be deleted to achieve the same results?

THanks for all your help.

Bo
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by AlexandreJ » Tue Mar 01, 2011 4:42 pm

On windows, you can delete Kolor registry : HKEY_CURRENT_USER/Software/Kolor/Autopano (Pro or Giga)2.5/
On mac, In the ~/Library/Preferences/, remove all fichiers starting with com.kolor.

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by Bmachine » Tue Mar 01, 2011 7:57 pm

AlexandreJ wrote:Could you please explain what you did clearly ?

Ah, sorry. I didn't see that one.

Well, as I mentioned in that post, I did exactly as in the first post, ie all default settings. In other words:

Process:
- Open APP 2.5,
- select a folder to find images
- Click Detect
- In the preview gui, click on Edit
- change projection from cylinder to spherical
- open the Render gui
- Leave all options to default and click Render
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by Bmachine » Tue Mar 01, 2011 8:02 pm

BTW, since this seems to be a problem of "bad settings" that are loading as default, it might be useful to have a "Restore Defaults" button somewhere. The one in the "Open folder" gui does not do that. At least not for the Render settings.

This would then be a useful "first step to take" when debugging. The Uninstall and Reinstall or even trashing the pref file probably gets the job done but for people who are not into digging that far, a simpler way to achieve that might be useful.

I will try the "trashing the com.kolor files" tonight

Bo
Last edited by Bmachine on Tue Mar 01, 2011 8:03 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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by Bmachine » Wed Mar 02, 2011 8:03 am

OK, I trashed the 3 com.kolor files and re ran everything as described in the first post. First, I noticed that the Render gui now shows Anti-Ghost as the default. Second, the resulting pano is very good indeed. There is a slight bump/glitch on the horizon (right above the foreground pedestal) but that is certainly easy to fix.

So clearly, it seems that the Render settings were somehow recorded in this strange custom setting (I do not remember ever setting it to custom myself). As I mentioned earlier, it would be nice to have a simple way to restore ALL defaults.

Thank you.

Bo

Result below


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by AlexandreJ » Mon Mar 14, 2011 2:42 pm

The restore default is in fact, trashing the "com.kolor" files.
BTW : the "restore default button" exist on several dialog box, but it will only restore default on the opened windows, not on an application scale.

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by AlexandreJ » Mon Mar 14, 2011 2:43 pm

Bmachine wrote:Third test:
When I click on the little Folder icon to select the folder where to find the images, there is a "Restore Default" button. I click on that button, then go through the whole process again. I noticed that, by default, the "Custom" is still selected in the Render gui. And the results are now... back to the original (bad) blending. Here is the image:

We tried that and were not able to reproduce. So, I assume that a bad setting was left and causes all these issues.
Can I assume that everything is back on track as expected, Bmachine ?

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by Bmachine » Mon Mar 14, 2011 5:38 pm

Yes, thank you Alexandre.

As I mentioned, after trashing all 3 com files, things are now back to default and work perfectly.

Thank you for following up and for a great piece of software!

Bo
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