Which KR Pano license?  

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UK Pano
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Which KR Pano license?

by UK Pano » Mon Feb 22, 2010 5:39 pm

Hey all,

I am finally taking the first few steps from creating static panoramas to the world of 360 panoramas and wanted to ask which KR Pano license for APT.

Reading past threads and the krpano license page, I understand that krpano tools is worth having so that xml can be edited etc, but I only have two domain names where my works will be displayed.

Given this, I do not see the need to spend EUR90 (or EUR80 with the Kolor discount) to get the unlimited domain when the limited domain and krpano tools license bought separately equal EUR60.

I can't be the first person to ask this question and would like the forums comments on whether I am missing something obvious by going with a limited domain license.
Canon 400D / Canon 24-105mm L / Sigma 8mm f3.5 FE / Sigma 10-20mm / Sigma 70-300mm / NN3 & R1 / PS CS2 / LR3 / Enfuse

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Adrien F
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by Adrien F » Tue Feb 23, 2010 10:08 am

I'd say the main point is that APT does not support the limited domain licence.

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by UK Pano » Tue Feb 23, 2010 12:05 pm

Thanks Adrien for replying but I find it unbelievable that Kolor/APT does not support either of the licensing with KRpano. So I have to pay an additional EUR30 now because Kolor doesn't support the limited domain license? Unbelievable.
Canon 400D / Canon 24-105mm L / Sigma 8mm f3.5 FE / Sigma 10-20mm / Sigma 70-300mm / NN3 & R1 / PS CS2 / LR3 / Enfuse

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by hankkarl » Tue Feb 23, 2010 6:36 pm

Either be happy that Autopano is not charging more for APT because they have to put in a lot of options or find someone who will pay you to make a VT and wants to host it on a third website.

Besides, its not a lot of money compared to the equipment you list. 30 euros won't even buy a good UV filter for one of your lenses.

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by UK Pano » Wed Feb 24, 2010 10:11 am

My main gripe was that there was no choice to the license applied. Also the reason that I have the equipment that I have is because of challenging their prices and ensuring that I am not being done.
Last edited by UK Pano on Wed Feb 24, 2010 4:51 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Canon 400D / Canon 24-105mm L / Sigma 8mm f3.5 FE / Sigma 10-20mm / Sigma 70-300mm / NN3 & R1 / PS CS2 / LR3 / Enfuse

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by hankkarl » Wed Feb 24, 2010 7:06 pm

Sorry to be the one to tell you this, but if "done" means "taken" (ie you paid too much), you were badly done.

Think about the cost of components for a lens--the glass is made from (mostly) sand. You can get sand at the beach for free. The glass may have additives in it, but again, you can dig a hole in the right place and get those additives for free. And the lens has a metal body--again, metal is in the ground and you can get it free.

So what's left? profit. all profit. The guy who digs the sand for the lens doesn't give anything but some of his time but he gets some money, so he makes a 100% profit. And you can follow this "reasoning" up the chain--the guy who melts the sand, the guy who polishes the glass, the guy who puts the glass in the lens assembly, etc--all they give is time and they get money for that! Profit, all profit, and nothing but profit! -- Opps, I forgot taxes. So when you buy a lens, all you pay for is profit and taxes.

Software is different than hardware. Once the initial costs are paid the rest is profit (except for the support costs). So in one sense, if the first user pays the development cost and some reasonable amount for support, the software would be free.

Since you are the first user who wants to use the single user-krpano license, you should ask Kolor what they'll charge for that work, and then pay it so the rest of us can have the product for free. Oh, wait a minute--other than taxes, that money will be all "profit" (or wages, to us capitalists) that go to the guys who developed APP. So all you have to do is to convince the engineers at Kolor to work for free, and convince the governments involved not to collect taxes.

</sarcasm>

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by UK Pano » Thu Feb 25, 2010 11:09 am

As someone who is starting out learning this application and this art form, I posted on the forum what I believed to be a reasonable question to ask about licensing.

I do not have multiple domains to host and saw that KRPano was available as a single domain license and that KRPano Tools was also available to license separately and felt that this combination worked well for what I wished to achieve and suited my circumstances.

Asking if this was possible to use separately was, I thought, a reasonable question to ask those that are more knowledagble than myself in this forum regarding this product.

Yes I was surprised that the only option APT will take is the unlimited license, not for the difference in cost but in that it is not clear that this is mandatory and effectively I felt was buying more than I would ever need to use.

HankKarl, you don't know me, you don't know my circumstances nor do you know how I have come to have the equipment that I have listed.

I wish I could be so at ease in creating this medium that I then have the time to ridicule the questions posted by those who are just starting out and looking to learn. Must be a real nice feeling to have.

You have a nice day now
Canon 400D / Canon 24-105mm L / Sigma 8mm f3.5 FE / Sigma 10-20mm / Sigma 70-300mm / NN3 & R1 / PS CS2 / LR3 / Enfuse

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by Adrien F » Thu Feb 25, 2010 11:59 am

The krpano licence issue will be solved in the next release (I mean stable version, not beta product).
We are still negotiating with krpano to include a licence in the price of APT/APG so it will be totally transparent to the end user and hopefully no more 'debate' like this one will happen.

UK Pano, we are sorry the single domain licence is not supported in APT. This was a choice of us, as it is not easy to maintain various version of a software with various licence degrees, and as we think the additional price to put is insignificant, regarding the price of the hardware needed to make VR.

I may say what I think is obvious on a forum like this one, but courtesy is the rule. This forum is dedicated to ask questions in a smart way and help people getting the best out of our software. So please, you are invited to provide constructive answers.

Please also remember there is a forum where the future of APT is discussed, so feel free to post any improvement you may think useful in this forum : http://www.autopano.net/forum/f24-the-future

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by klausesser » Thu Feb 25, 2010 12:22 pm

UK Pano wrote:I do not have multiple domains to host and saw that KRPano was available as a single domain license and that KRPano Tools was also available to license separately and felt that this combination worked well for what I wished to achieve and suited my circumstances.

The solution is very simple: You don´t need APT at all when you use the KRPano tools. You can build your tours just editing xml . . . .

best, Klaus
Simplicity is the keynote of all true elegance. Coco Chanel

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by UK Pano » Thu Feb 25, 2010 12:37 pm

Thanks Klaus for your useful and constructive advise. XML coding doesn't phase me as it is something I do in my job :)
Canon 400D / Canon 24-105mm L / Sigma 8mm f3.5 FE / Sigma 10-20mm / Sigma 70-300mm / NN3 & R1 / PS CS2 / LR3 / Enfuse

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by UK Pano » Thu Feb 25, 2010 12:59 pm

Thanks Adrien for your reply and equally your explanation.

Information and guidance was all I was asking for in the first place; to gain an undertanding on the licensing and whether it was viable with what I had posted. Understanding the reasons behind why my combination is not viable, I will now progress with either the unlimited license or just KRPano Tools as Klaus has suggested.

Forgive me but I thought I was asking a simple question and didn't realise it would cause so much fuss and offence to others :/ I'm learning this stuff from scratch and asking is the only way to learn even if they are dummy questions

Adrien F wrote:... but courtesy is the rule.

I feel that I have been nothing but courteous, my apologies naturally if my posting have not.
Canon 400D / Canon 24-105mm L / Sigma 8mm f3.5 FE / Sigma 10-20mm / Sigma 70-300mm / NN3 & R1 / PS CS2 / LR3 / Enfuse

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by klausesser » Thu Feb 25, 2010 1:31 pm

UK Pano wrote:Thanks Klaus for your useful and constructive advise. XML coding doesn't phase me as it is something I do in my job :)

:P:cool:
i hate dealing with codes . . . therefore the combination of APT to build up a kind of basis and KRPano tools just to fine-tune the xml and add special features seems the way.

Without APT to get a base i think i would be lost . . . .

That´s a big problem - as a photographer i hate to being forced to deal with that xml crab ;) to get done what i want to visualize.
Many photographers complain about the total absence of GUI for KRPano.

APT is a very good start - some Chinese guys provide a GUI online . . . but who wants to load up his/her pictures to a Chinese server somewhere far away . . .

So it is APT to be a first GUI - and surely will be more sophisticated than it is now to handle all the very special features possible.

best, KLlaus
Last edited by klausesser on Thu Feb 25, 2010 1:41 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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by hankkarl » Fri Feb 26, 2010 5:34 pm

UK Pano wrote:HankKarl, you don't know me, you don't know my circumstances nor do you know how I have come to have the equipment that I have listed.

I thought you said
UK Pano wrote:"... the reason that I have the equipment that I have is because of challenging their prices and ensuring that I am not being done."

To address your next concern,
UK Pano wrote:I wish I could be so at ease in creating this medium that I then have the time to ridicule the questions posted by those who are just starting out and looking to learn. Must be a real nice feeling to have.

Sorry, I must have taken the following question as rhetorical. I didn't realize you were asking a serious question.
UK Pano wrote:Thanks Adrien for replying but I find it unbelievable that Kolor/APT does not support either of the licensing with KRpano. So I have to pay an additional EUR30 now because Kolor doesn't support the limited domain license? Unbelievable.

But going back to one of your earlier posts,
UK Pano wrote:My main gripe was that there was no choice to the license applied. Also the reason that I have the equipment that I have is because of challenging their prices and ensuring that I am not being done.

UK Pano---your post came across (at least to me) as saying you thought you were getting ripped off. I'm sorry if you didn't get my point, not everyone understands sarcasm.

If KR Pano didn't offer a single domain license, would you feel that way? The multi-user license is only 30 euros (50%) more expensive than the single domain license.

Some people use APP/APT a lot, some only use it a little. Wouldn't it be more fair for them (and Kolor) to charge based on usage? Perhaps a royalty on each pano produced? Don't get me wrong--I like the way the price works now, and I don't do as many panos as some contributors here.

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by UK Pano » Fri Feb 26, 2010 6:07 pm

Mate,

I'm new here with APT, just asking questions to learn more and not been looking for a fight.

It has not been down to the difference in price, just a simple question to do with understanding the licensing.

APT is tied in with KR Pano; KR Pano offer two types of licensing, one of which fitted in precisely to my circumstances, the second being 50% more expensive and it did not appear to meet my circumstances.

"Unbelievable" was in reference that despite the ability to have a choice of licensing, only one is actually applicable and is not clear anywhere in the Kolor documentation that this is the case.

Perhaps I am being a tight a*se then when something is 50% more expensive than I thought I needed. Now Kolor have explained that there is no choice, then it is not a problem.

Friends? *offering a hand shake*
Canon 400D / Canon 24-105mm L / Sigma 8mm f3.5 FE / Sigma 10-20mm / Sigma 70-300mm / NN3 & R1 / PS CS2 / LR3 / Enfuse

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by hankkarl » Sat Feb 27, 2010 5:54 am

Ok. I'll put this misunderstanding down to a "translation error".

Kolor and KR Pano are two different companies, and APT is still in its infancy, so its not surprising that the license models don't exactly match. And Kolor documentation leaves something to be desired.

I'm a bit of a tight a*s myself, I'll buy a winter coat in the bargain cave if its cheap enough, even though I may not get my first choice of color.

On the other hand, if Kolor had added other options to APT, they may have raised the price, so you may have been able to use the less expensive license from KRPano, but we all would have paid more for APT. So I can console myself by saying its not really any more expensive...and maybe someday, I will put panos on more than two websites.

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by Marv » Sat Feb 27, 2010 7:54 pm

klausesser wrote:
UK Pano wrote:Thanks Klaus for your useful and constructive advise. XML coding doesn't phase me as it is something I do in my job :)

:P:cool:
i hate dealing with codes . . . therefore the combination of APT to build up a kind of basis and KRPano tools just to fine-tune the xml and add special features seems the way.

Without APT to get a base i think i would be lost . . . .

That´s a big problem - as a photographer i hate to being forced to deal with that xml crab ;) to get done what i want to visualize.
Many photographers complain about the total absence of GUI for KRPano.

APT is a very good start - some Chinese guys provide a GUI online . . . but who wants to load up his/her pictures to a Chinese server somewhere far away . . .

So it is APT to be a first GUI - and surely will be more sophisticated than it is now to handle all the very special features possible.

best, KLlaus

My sediments exactly. I'm a photographer, not a IT Teckie.
Marv.
Marv...

Nikon D700, Nikor 10.5mm DX (Shaved), Nikor 12-24mm DX, Modified Nodal NN180, Home made Nodal Ninja NN5 type Pano head, Really Right Stuff Plate & Clamps, Windows XP.

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by MaGue » Tue Mar 02, 2010 10:16 am

Adrien F wrote:and as we think the additional price to put is insignificant, regarding the price of the hardware needed to make VR.

you think?

The way to VR is mostly not: " I want to do VR"

It is:
"Oh, with my camera i maybe can do this too. I only have to get a cheap Panohead, and cool cheap Software."
So i am Saving my Money for some months to get the Stuff.

Then i found out that the cool cheap software is getting more expensive if i want to have the flash VR Version of it.
Okay, so i have to buy the Autopano Giga. @ this Time, not 150€ but 200€ :o ...50€ so okay.

They say:
Including: all Autopano Pro's features + exclusive Flash virtual tour creation system, support of motorized panoramic heads, among which Gigapan and Clauss, template creation, workspace saving.

200€? Okay. "click"

Then you working on some Panos, trying to get into the Theme and at a Time you got it.
So doing some more Panos and building Tours with the "exclusive Flash virtual tour creation system".
And after additional time you notice: "I need the KRpano tools"
90€ :mad:

Summary it doubles the Price of 150€ :(

In Germany we are mention this " decoy offer "

Regardless, i am very pleased with APG
Anyway, APG is imho the best Program to do this stuff.



But, I'm afraid, in the next release with fully integrated KR i have to buy the APG update to 2.5 ....
Thats the way to do good business :cool:

Maybe you think also a little about the amateurs.
The Pro's surely dont have a Problem with your Prices.

No hard feelings.
Kindly excuse the bad english

best,
Martin
Last edited by MaGue on Tue Mar 02, 2010 10:21 am, edited 1 time in total.
best,
Martin

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by hankkarl » Tue Mar 02, 2010 5:28 pm

AFIK, Kolor only charges for upgrades in the main number, 1.x to 2.x, 2.x to 3.x, etc

And we were all doing panos on the web before KRPano--I used HDView (free) and Pano2QTVR.

You don't need all the high end stuff, but it does make it faster and easier to make a pano.


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