APT 1.1.0 beta 7 - map - default behaviour  

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APT 1.1.0 beta 7 - map - default behaviour

by gkaefer » Tue Feb 02, 2010 4:18 pm

APT 1.1.0 beta 7 testing with.

I add an image as map...
... on resulting tour the map will be open as set under position, width, heigth % or pixel.
... if I click on the opened map it shrinks to a square.

how can I reverse this behaviour (in sourcecode of final tour or within APT) so...
... per default the map is shown as small square and if I click on the square
.... the map will expand to the set size?

I cant find xml hints in forum or docu page of krpano.com site so I think this map plugin is a kolor development ;-)

PS: same behaviour happens to the thumbnails to me (set position to left, two panos used in test) the thumbnail is opened per default and I have to click on it to close the thumbnail...

thanks in advance,
Georg
Last edited by gkaefer on Tue Feb 02, 2010 4:19 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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by mediavets » Tue Feb 02, 2010 4:29 pm

It appears that the behaviours of the Map and the Thumbnails have been changed in Beta 7 from the way they behaved in Beta 6.

Who requested these changes?

Why are these new behaviours considered to be better?

IMO the Thumbnail feature is still rather crude.
Last edited by mediavets on Tue Feb 02, 2010 4:30 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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by gkaefer » Tue Feb 02, 2010 4:43 pm

Why are these new behaviours considered to be better?

sorry I cant imagine a single reason...
choice one: make the map small enough so it doesn't disturb (because of big size) while opening first... and forcing user to close it...
choice two: make the map big enough so people can recognize details....
.... both = not possible.
so please - if this behaviour is hardcoded - please change it in beta 8 (so user can make its choice within APT....)

Liebe Gruesse,
Georg
Last edited by gkaefer on Tue Feb 02, 2010 4:44 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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by gkaefer » Tue Feb 02, 2010 9:47 pm

It appears that the behaviours of the Map and the Thumbnails have been changed in Beta 7 from the way they behaved in Beta 6.

APT beta 6 version: the behaviour is exactly the same - map is open on pano per default. I tested it on seperat pc...
Georg

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by mediavets » Tue Feb 02, 2010 9:54 pm

gkaefer wrote:
It appears that the behaviours of the Map and the Thumbnails have been changed in Beta 7 from the way they behaved in Beta 6.

APT beta 6 version: the behaviour is exactly the same - map is open on pano per default. I tested it on separate pc...
Georg

Hmmmmm....I wonder why I think I recall seeing a version where the map is closed by default and slides in/open when you clicked on a tab - as per the thumbnails tab.

Must have been my imagination? :rolleyes:
Andrew Stephens
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by klausesser » Tue Feb 02, 2010 9:59 pm

gkaefer wrote:APT beta 6 version: . . . - map is open on pano per default.

No - it isn´t in my case on a Mac.

best, Klaus
Simplicity is the keynote of all true elegance. Coco Chanel

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by gkaefer » Wed Feb 03, 2010 1:53 pm

I know what I see... ;-)
on two differetn PCs, win7 Ultimate 32bit and one win7 ultimate RC 64bit...

I myself made a tour with beta6 where the default thumbnail is closed:
(http://www.burgspiele-salzburg.at/Galerie/Panorama/ps3/home-winterwonderland/ps3-winter-wonderland-20091222-santa.html)

And this is one more reason why I dont understand why this is no longer the case, using the beta 6 nor the beta7 version...

If I want to create a new tour with beta6 or since yesterdays beta7 now default behaviour is an opened thumbnails (on my 2 PCs I tested with).
I can't say what changed (IE8 nore Mozilla were updated meanwhile, nor flash updated on these pcs).
I changed yesterday from beta 6 to beta7. in both versions no difference. So what could it be? are other users affected too?

The default behaviour looks for me to be an open thumbnail now (and with beta7 I first tested map and also here the default is an open map...)

and here a screencast I made so you also can see what....
http://www.autopano.net/wiki-en/images-en/2/20/Thumbnails-panotest_20100203.swf

and online this testtour is also available (my test PC's: default open thumbnail...):
http://www.burgspiele-salzburg.at/Galerie/Panorama/test/testpano111.html

Edit: and screencast with map example, per default showing an open map...:
http://www.autopano.net/wiki-en/images-en/1/12/Thumbnails-panotest2_20100203.swf
an online:
http://www.burgspiele-salzburg.at/Galerie/Panorama/test2/testpano111c.html

Gruesse,
Georg
Last edited by gkaefer on Wed Feb 03, 2010 2:49 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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by Adrien F » Wed Feb 03, 2010 2:37 pm

This is not a bug. The default position of thumbnail is now open as some users asked for a more visible thumbnail at loading time.

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by gkaefer » Wed Feb 03, 2010 2:47 pm

Adrien F wrote:This is not a bug. The default position of thumbnail is now open as some users asked for a more visible thumbnail at loading time.

well - in my opinion the thumbnail and map features are now useless.
Why not having a switch inside APT where everybody can chosse if map is on or off per default and the same with thumbs...
or if not included in APT in future, what has to be changed in xml file so default behavior can be changed?

Gruesse,
Georg

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by mediavets » Wed Feb 03, 2010 2:53 pm

Adrien F wrote:This is not a bug.

It may not be a 'bug' but it is certainly an undocumented change; and for those who didn't wish to have this as a default behaviour I imagine it could be 'seen' as a bug.
The default position of thumbnail is now open as some users asked for a more visible thumbnail at loading time.

Oh - I don't recall seeing many posts about that.

So how did these users report such a preference?

And did anyone ask whether there might be other users who did not like that idea?

The obvious solution is to make it a user selectable parameter as to whether the thumbnails bar is by default open or closed! The Map needs a similar facility. I imagine that's not beyond Kolor's capabilities?

But let's face it the whole thumbnail thing is really rather primitive, and lacking user configurability, in its current implementation.
Andrew Stephens
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Nikon D5100 and D40, Sigma 8mm f3.5 FE, Nikon 10.5mm FE, 35mm, 50mm, 18-55mm, 70-210mm. Promote control.

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by digipano » Wed Feb 03, 2010 4:46 pm

I was one who requested that the thumbnails should 1st show for 10 sec then auto disappear, this was a problem specially when you have more than 10 thumbnails & viewing them on a large screen (22" & above) the user don't even notice that there are other images in the tour.

But I prefer the user selectable option as its there for auto rotation.

The way kolor is progressing with beta is too little & too slow when you compare the krpano hand coding possibilities, a beta in public should be discussed & features changes concluded for the next update.

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by gkaefer » Wed Feb 03, 2010 5:30 pm

I was one who requested that the thumbnails should 1st show for 10 sec then auto disappear

WELL - than the "bug" is that it is not disappearing after 10 seconds...it stays open in beta 7.
enduser should not be forced to have to disable x features to be able to see the pano...

GRuesse,
Georg

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by digipano » Wed Feb 03, 2010 6:00 pm

Yes as of now you have to click the thumbnail bar (little triangle) to manually close it.
WE need auto close option infact we need the following option for the thumbnails.
2 columns option
thumbnail scrolling option
ON/off auto show thumbnail bar
auto show time 2-20 sec or user selectable

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by mediavets » Wed Feb 03, 2010 6:49 pm

I want to ask whether others use thumbnails as the only means of navigating to another pano in a tour or whether they also use hotspots?

If some never use thumbnails please tell me why not.

If you do use thumbnails alongside hotspots can you envisage having the option to only have thumbnails for some panos and not others - I think I would like the option to choose which panos are represented by thumbnails rather than having all the panos in a tour represented by thumbnails.

Similarly can you envisage a tour in which you would like to display a thumbanil 'panel' with some panos but notothers - I tiunk I would like the option to be able to choose whether or not a thumbnail 'panel' is shown for each pano in a tour.

I have found the auto scrolling thumbnail 'panels' I've seen in some tours quite difficult, and rather counter-intuitive to control, especially those that seem to scroll faster the further the cursor is moved from the central location - perhaps a 'slider/scroll bar' to let the user control scrolling would be better?

I've seen thumbnail bars where when one hovers over a thumbnail a second larger version of the thumbnail with a title (not a tooltip) is displayed as a'pop up' off set from the smallere thumbnail - this seemed really quite nice because then one could have lots of thumbnails but the larger 'pop up' version did enable you to actually see what the picture is of.

I've seen tours where the thumbnail 'panel' is displayed not at the edges of the screen but in the centre and the pano behind is 'dimmed' - that seemed to work quite well too.

Perhaps it would be good for people to post links to tours - and not necessarily tours based on krpano - which have thumbnail bars (and other features/functions too) showing features that they, like and to say why they like them - as topics for discussion and as guidance/inspiration for the APT developers?
Andrew Stephens
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Nikon D5100 and D40, Sigma 8mm f3.5 FE, Nikon 10.5mm FE, 35mm, 50mm, 18-55mm, 70-210mm. Promote control.

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by digipano » Wed Feb 03, 2010 7:09 pm

I want to ask whether others use thumbnails as the only means of navigating to another pano in a tour or whether they also use hotspots?

Feedback from clients say that they don't like hot spots when you have too many nodes in 1 pano, its quite a distraction those blinking circles, so I made static hotspots but then they appear as spots & distract from the real virtual tour.
So I use hotpots when only 1-3 location need to be linked but when I have to link 7-8 locations then I would only use thumbnails nothing else.
If you do use thumbnails alongside hotspots can you envisage having the option to only have thumbnails for some panos and not others - I think I would like the option to choose which panos are represented by thumbnails rather than having all the panos in a tour represented by thumbnails.

that would be confusing for the end user.
I have found the auto scrolling thumbnail 'panels' I've seen in some tours quite difficult, and rather counter-intuitive to control, especially those that seem to scroll faster the further the cursor is moved from the central location - perhaps a 'slider/scroll bar' to let the user control scrolling would be better?

I hate them too they are done in flash, I prefer the scroll bar.

Let me post some links in the next post.

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by digipano » Wed Feb 03, 2010 7:14 pm

This one uses thumbnails in a decent way
http://www.tour360.eu/panoramiche/santamaria/
the mouse cursor on thumbs stop the auto rotation

Best use of static thumbnails
http://asb.360-foto.dk/flash-2.html
another one
http://www.ar-studio.com.es/western_360hd/

best I like the alpha transparency which make them less obstructive
http://www.hotel-mariana-visitevirtuelle.com/hotel-mariana.html

manual scrolling
http://virtuel-immobilier.com/turquoise-international/

this one is quite different
http://tours.firstimpressionphotos.com/public/vtour/display/5087?a=1

best of what krpano can do
http://www.bziegler.com/posts/2009/03/vr_airbus/CJ/
Last edited by digipano on Wed Feb 03, 2010 7:27 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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by mediavets » Thu Feb 04, 2010 12:43 pm

All kinds of different uses of maps, floorplans and thumbnails here - all (nicely) done with Pano2VR:
http://tactus360.com/examples.html

The multi level hierarchy of thumbnails works well I think, and the way the thumnail titles are implemnented, especially for the tour of four churches each with several panos:
http://tactus360.com/panos/uppsala/index.html?iframe=true&width=880&height=515
Last edited by mediavets on Thu Feb 04, 2010 12:49 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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by mediavets » Thu Feb 04, 2010 12:44 pm

digipano wrote:This one uses thumbnails in a decent way
http://www.tour360.eu/panoramiche/santamaria/
the mouse cursor on thumbs stop the auto rotation

I couldn't find this one - the URL doesn't take me to a pano?
Andrew Stephens
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Nikon D5100 and D40, Sigma 8mm f3.5 FE, Nikon 10.5mm FE, 35mm, 50mm, 18-55mm, 70-210mm. Promote control.

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by digipano » Thu Feb 04, 2010 2:09 pm

hmmnn seems url is getting redirect see it from this post at krpano forums
http://krpano.com/forum/wbb/index.php?page=Thread&postID=10597#post10597

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by mediavets » Thu Feb 04, 2010 2:32 pm

digipano wrote:hmmnn seems url is getting redirect see it from this post at krpano forums
http://krpano.com/forum/wbb/index.php?page=Thread&postID=10597#post10597

Thank you, yes the mouse over on thumbnails bar stopping of autorotation and the way the thumbnail titles are handled is quite attractive.
Andrew Stephens
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by mediavets » Thu Feb 04, 2010 2:38 pm

It does appear that people are using thumbnails for navigation in preference to hotspots in many instances.

A few mix thumbnails and hotspots. Many seem to mix maps/plans and thumbnails.

So....APT currently has quite a range of different hotspot features but only rather primitive thumbnails and maps features.

The balance of features appears to be out of synch with what the market is doing and wanting in terms of VT navigation tools?

It looks as if more effort is required to develop rather more sophisticated thumbnails and maps/plans features in APT to match market expectations?
Last edited by mediavets on Thu Feb 04, 2010 3:15 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Nikon D5100 and D40, Sigma 8mm f3.5 FE, Nikon 10.5mm FE, 35mm, 50mm, 18-55mm, 70-210mm. Promote control.

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by digipano » Thu Feb 04, 2010 4:56 pm

It does appear that people are using thumbnails for navigation in preference to hotspots in many instances.

The reason is simple thumbnails are less obstructive, hot spot done in a nice way can also be good but we don't have much options as yet in APT 1.1

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by mediavets » Thu Feb 04, 2010 5:40 pm

digipano wrote:
It does appear that people are using thumbnails for navigation in preference to hotspots in many instances.

The reason is simple thumbnails are less obstructive, hot spot done in a nice way can also be good but we don't have much options as yet in APT 1.1

What additional hotspot options would you like to see?

And do you have examples of what you would like?

I know it seems we are 'talking' to ourselves but it appears that rather more people may be reading/lurking. Perhaps some of them would like to contribute their thoughts too?
Last edited by mediavets on Thu Feb 04, 2010 5:43 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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by digipano » Thu Feb 04, 2010 6:11 pm

What additional hotspot options would you like to see?

hotspot library / gallery to choose
ability to change size/color/transparency of hotspot
I can just type an arrow (with certain fonts) which I then should be able to fine tune as per the location background
basic animation move arrow to left>> right, or up & down (it could be any shape)
animation speed option (not sure this can ever be implemented within APT)
Last edited by digipano on Thu Feb 04, 2010 6:13 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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by mediavets » Thu Feb 04, 2010 7:49 pm

digipano wrote:
What additional hotspot options would you like to see?

hotspot library / gallery to choose
ability to change size/color/transparency of hotspot
I can just type an arrow (with certain fonts) which I then should be able to fine tune as per the location background
basic animation move arrow to left>> right, or up & down (it could be any shape)
animation speed option (not sure this can ever be implemented within APT)

Am I correct in thinking that your comments relate specifically to the APT point type hotspot?
Last edited by mediavets on Thu Feb 04, 2010 7:51 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Andrew Stephens
Many different Nodal Ninja and Agnos pano heads. Merlin/Panogear mount with Papywizard on Nokia Internet tablets.
Nikon D5100 and D40, Sigma 8mm f3.5 FE, Nikon 10.5mm FE, 35mm, 50mm, 18-55mm, 70-210mm. Promote control.

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