Nodal Point and Leveling, please advice me.  

In the panorama field, hardware is also part of the success. You can discuss here about it: camera, computer, pano head, anything
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panodude
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Nodal Point and Leveling, please advice me.

by panodude » Sat Jan 02, 2010 5:23 am

Hi

When setting the nodal point, i usually use 2 vertical lines (foreground and background) ,rotate the camera left and right and do adjustments till i get no parallax. The foreground line is about 1 meter away from the camera and background line.

My questions:

1- Is this enough for a spherical (360 x 180) panorama, or should i also use 2 horizontal lines and rotate the camera up and down?

2- Is it OK to level using only on the bubble level found on my tripod?

I always notice some parallax only in the upper row of images (i.e. the ceiling)



I shoot spherical panoramas (360 x 180) , rotate every 36 degrees and shoot 3 rows at 45, 0 and -45 degrees (10 images / raw) , then shoot nadir and zenith pics. I shoot in portrait using Nikon D90 with Nikkor 18 - 105 mm lens at 18 mm focal length, 303 SPH Manfrotto Pano head.

Any help will be highly appreciated.

Thank you.

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by vincen » Sat Jan 02, 2010 12:56 pm

panodude wrote:When setting the nodal point, i usually use 2 vertical lines (foreground and background) ,rotate the camera left and right and do adjustments till i get no parallax. The foreground line is about 1 meter away from the camera and background line.

Hi,

Your problem is probably there ! your two vertical lines should be far one from the other. the foremost should be at one meter or two, the foreground one at most far you can (three or four meters would be great !). It'll allow you some more accurate settings

panodude wrote:Is it OK to level using only on the bubble level found on my tripod?

If you plan to do spherical panoramas, you don't need exact levels as you can correct that in AutoPano stitching process, so level of tripod should be ok.

panodude wrote:I shoot spherical panoramas (360 x 180) , rotate every 36 degrees and shoot 3 rows at 45, 0 and -45 degrees (10 images / raw) , then shoot nadir and zenith pics. I shoot in portrait using Nikon D90 with Nikkor 18 - 105 mm lens at 18 mm focal length, 303 SPH Manfrotto Pano head.

Why do you use so much angle ? 45º ? myself I use 15º with a 14mm lens (full frame) and that's enough :)

Best wishes for new year ;)

Vincèn
Blog: http://www.skivr.com
Nodal Ninja 4 R-D16 on Benro Tripod + Ultimate R1 on Nodal Ninja P2 + Nikon D800 + Nikkor 10.5 + Nikkor 14/24 f/2.8 +Pentax 645D

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by mediavets » Sat Jan 02, 2010 1:03 pm

vincen wrote:
panodude wrote:I shoot spherical panoramas (360 x 180) , rotate every 36 degrees and shoot 3 rows at 45, 0 and -45 degrees (10 images / raw) , then shoot nadir and zenith pics. I shoot in portrait using Nikon D90 with Nikkor 18 - 105 mm lens at 18 mm focal length, 303 SPH Manfrotto Pano head.

Why do you use so much angle ? 45º ? myself I use 15º with a 14mm lens (full frame) and that's enough :)

Best wishes for new year ;)

Vincèn

Nikon D90 has 1.5x crop sensor, and lens is rectilinear so shooting technique is correct I think for 360x180 with 18mm focal length.
Andrew Stephens
Many different Nodal Ninja and Agnos pano heads. Merlin/Panogear mount with Papywizard on Nokia Internet tablets.
Nikon D5100 and D40, Sigma 8mm f3.5 FE, Nikon 10.5mm FE, 35mm, 50mm, 18-55mm, 70-210mm. Promote control.

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by panodude » Sat Jan 02, 2010 1:47 pm

Thanks guys,

vincen:
I think you're right , i should make more space between the vertical lines, but do you think it is enough or shall i also use the lines horizontally?

and as mediavets said, my cameras lens is rectilinear so i guess if i rotate at 15 degrees it will take 3 rows up and 3 rows down! there will lot of pics to deal with and too much overlap.

Thank you friends and HAPPY NEW YEAR :)

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by mediavets » Sat Jan 02, 2010 2:02 pm

panodude wrote:Thanks guys,

vincen:
I think you're right , i should make more space between the vertical lines, but do you think it is enough or shall i also use the lines horizontally?

Vertical lines alone is all you need.

But check centering in the vertical axis of rotation.

If you want to post an unadulterated sample image set (zipped) on-line somewhere I'll be happy to downlaod and try a stitch and report back.
Last edited by mediavets on Sat Jan 02, 2010 2:03 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Andrew Stephens
Many different Nodal Ninja and Agnos pano heads. Merlin/Panogear mount with Papywizard on Nokia Internet tablets.
Nikon D5100 and D40, Sigma 8mm f3.5 FE, Nikon 10.5mm FE, 35mm, 50mm, 18-55mm, 70-210mm. Promote control.

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by vincen » Sat Jan 02, 2010 2:03 pm

panodude wrote:I think you're right , i should make more space between the vertical lines, but do you think it is enough or shall i also use the lines horizontally?

Don't need any horizontal lines, only vertical ones :)

panodude wrote:and as mediavets said, my cameras lens is rectilinear so i guess if i rotate at 15 degrees it will take 3 rows up and 3 rows down! there will lot of pics to deal with and too much overlap.

Well I use myself a D3 with a 14-24 lens, and I shoot one row horizontal, one row at +15º, one row at -15º, nadyr and zenith and that's it ;)

panodude wrote:Thank you friends and HAPPY NEW YEAR :)

You too, all the best :)

Vincèn
Blog: http://www.skivr.com
Nodal Ninja 4 R-D16 on Benro Tripod + Ultimate R1 on Nodal Ninja P2 + Nikon D800 + Nikkor 10.5 + Nikkor 14/24 f/2.8 +Pentax 645D

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by mediavets » Sat Jan 02, 2010 2:07 pm

vincen wrote:
panodude wrote:and as mediavets said, my cameras lens is rectilinear so i guess if i rotate at 15 degrees it will take 3 rows up and 3 rows down! there will lot of pics to deal with and too much overlap.

Well I use myself a D3 with a 14-24 lens, and I shoot one row horizontal, one row at +15º, one row at -15º, nadyr and zenith and that's it ;)

Vincèn

The D3 has a fullframe sensor; the D90 has a 1.5x crop sensor so 18mm on a D90 is equivalent to 27mm on a D3.
Andrew Stephens
Many different Nodal Ninja and Agnos pano heads. Merlin/Panogear mount with Papywizard on Nokia Internet tablets.
Nikon D5100 and D40, Sigma 8mm f3.5 FE, Nikon 10.5mm FE, 35mm, 50mm, 18-55mm, 70-210mm. Promote control.

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by vincen » Sat Jan 02, 2010 2:09 pm

mediavets wrote:The D3 has a fullframe sensor; the D90 has a 1.5x crop sensor so 18mm on a D90 is equivalent to 27mm on a D3.

Yep but at 24mm I also use these same settings without problems so it should be fine for you also I think ;) Did you check with panorama calculator such as the one of Nodal Ninja ? http://www.nodalninja.com/pano_calculations.html

Vincèn
Blog: http://www.skivr.com
Nodal Ninja 4 R-D16 on Benro Tripod + Ultimate R1 on Nodal Ninja P2 + Nikon D800 + Nikkor 10.5 + Nikkor 14/24 f/2.8 +Pentax 645D

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by mediavets » Sat Jan 02, 2010 2:29 pm

vincen wrote:
mediavets wrote:The D3 has a fullframe sensor; the D90 has a 1.5x crop sensor so 18mm on a D90 is equivalent to 27mm on a D3.

Yep but at 24mm I also use these same settings without problems so it should be fine for you also I think ;) Did you check with panorama calculator such as the one of Nodal Ninja ? http://www.nodalninja.com/pano_calculations.html

Vincèn

Take a look at:
http://www.vrwave.com/panoramic/photography/lens_database.html
Andrew Stephens
Many different Nodal Ninja and Agnos pano heads. Merlin/Panogear mount with Papywizard on Nokia Internet tablets.
Nikon D5100 and D40, Sigma 8mm f3.5 FE, Nikon 10.5mm FE, 35mm, 50mm, 18-55mm, 70-210mm. Promote control.

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by panodude » Sat Jan 02, 2010 6:25 pm

Really happy for your help guys,

That reduced the work of setting the nodal point :cool

I will try to upload the upper raw with parallax for mediavets to check, but it 48 MB in size (Jpeg) and im not sure what is the best place for such a case!

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by hankkarl » Sun Jan 03, 2010 4:18 am

See http://www.autopano.net/wiki-en/action/view/Adjusting_or_verifying_a_panohead

There are three adjustments to make on the 303sph:
1. left-right
2. top-bottom
3. fore-aft

left-right and top-bottom are easy, just level the tripod, level the head (check that its level in all directions) then level the camera when its pointing to the nadir. Take a picture of the tripod center screw, then rotate the camera 180 degrees and take another picture. playback both pictures, enlarge till the screw is life sized on the LCD. Then toggle between the two images. There should be no movement. If there is, move the camera by that amount.

fore-aft is harder, there you have to use the technique I think you're using. But you know that left-right and up-down is ok, so you only have to adjust one thing.

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by hankkarl » Sun Jan 03, 2010 4:30 am

mediavets wrote:
panodude wrote:Thanks guys,

vincen:
I think you're right , i should make more space between the vertical lines, but do you think it is enough or shall i also use the lines horizontally?

Vertical lines alone is all you need.

But check centering in the vertical axis of rotation.

If you want to post an unadulterated sample image set (zipped) on-line somewhere I'll be happy to download and try a stitch and report back.

If you're doing a circular pano, this is ok.

But if you're doing a horizontal pano, I think you need to adjust the up and down direction also. If the camera is set to high on the head but otherwise ok, each row will be ok, but there will be parallax between an image and the one above and below it.

In any case, the method I mentioned above eliminates the need for setting up with horizontal lines.

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by panodude » Sun Jan 03, 2010 5:23 pm

hankkarl wrote:See http://www.autopano.net/wiki-en/action/view/Adjusting_or_verifying_a_panohead

There are three adjustments to make on the 303sph:
1. left-right
2. top-bottom
3. fore-aft

left-right and top-bottom are easy, just level the tripod, level the head (check that its level in all directions) then level the camera when its pointing to the nadir. Take a picture of the tripod center screw, then rotate the camera 180 degrees and take another picture. playback both pictures, enlarge till the screw is life sized on the LCD. Then toggle between the two images. There should be no movement. If there is, move the camera by that amount.

fore-aft is harder, there you have to use the technique I think you're using. But you know that left-right and up-down is ok, so you only have to adjust one thing.

Very useful, today i tried this method and it made me sure that its OK (no movement noticed) :).

Regarding the fore-aft, i still dont see any movement between the vertical lines , may be there could be .01% movment but still way unnoticeable. I do this test at 0 degree, may be should i also check at different rotation angles i.e 45, - 45 degrees etc.

Did you mean by "circular pano" a spherical (360 x 180) pano?

Thanks for the help and the link :)

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by hankkarl » Sun Jan 03, 2010 6:50 pm

Circular is a 360 degree pano that is not 360x180. Usually it is one row.

fore-aft - if this is way off, it makes a difference. This page describes it http://www.panoguide.com/howto/panoramas/panohead.jsp

Think of a circular pano taken from a regular tripod. the tripod mount on a DSLR is generally on the sensor plane and centered. But the fore-aft is way off, so you get lots of parallax.

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by panodude » Mon Jan 04, 2010 4:19 pm

hankkarl wrote:Circular is a 360 degree pano that is not 360x180. Usually it is one row.

fore-aft - if this is way off, it makes a difference. This page describes it http://www.panoguide.com/howto/panoramas/panohead.jsp

Think of a circular pano taken from a regular tripod. the tripod mount on a DSLR is generally on the sensor plane and centered. But the fore-aft is way off, so you get lots of parallax.

I reviewed the link and i think nothing wrong with my settings.

Now am thinking to try different ways of shooting i.e taking 10 pics. at 0º , other 10 pics. at 35º then 8 pics at 70º (changing the rotation angle), the same goes for the down rows. I also may change the height of the camera ( currently its almost in the middle between the ceiling and the floor).


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