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In the panorama field, hardware is also part of the success. You can discuss here about it: camera, computer, pano head, anything
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by mediavets » Fri Nov 14, 2008 7:24 pm

Adam wrote:Are saying that I don't need pano head like NN3? Why not?
I think there is more to pano shooting than I thought. Trying to read some stuff. Have a hard time finding good matierial to read.

No, no, no - I am saying you DO need a panohead like the NN3/5.

What I am saying is that you do not need a ball head between your leveling centre column and a NN3/5 pano head.

Nor do you need any additional rotator - the NN3/5 heads incorporate a click-stop rotator.

Different focal length lenses require different positions of the camera on the top rail of the pano head - for setting the correct NPP - and different nos. of shots in each row, and different nos. of rows, to cover the scene.

Some lenses are too long to fit on the NN3 at their correct NPP setting and require the use of the NN5. Some lens/camera body combinations may be too heavy for the NN3 and require the NN5.

The no. of click stops need with your lenses will determine which detente rings you need for a NN3/5L or which of the new RD range of rotators you need.

Hope this helps clear things up a bit.
Last edited by mediavets on Fri Nov 14, 2008 7:25 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Many different Nodal Ninja and Agnos pano heads. Merlin/Panogear mount with Papywizard on Nokia Internet tablets.
Nikon D5100 and D40, Sigma 8mm f3.5 FE, Nikon 10.5mm FE, 35mm, 50mm, 18-55mm, 70-210mm. Promote control.

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by Adam » Sat Nov 15, 2008 12:25 am

Maybe we should take this discussion of forum?
Since my last post I received e-mail from NN person and he is saying that with my equipment I'll need NN5, because I wont be able to tilt very well. More expensive stuff.
I shot trial panorama in my back yard just with level tripod. What do you think?
Still looking for good book or tutorials how to shoot panoramas.


interested in panorama photography

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by mediavets » Sat Nov 15, 2008 12:45 am

Adam wrote:Since my last post I received e-mail from NN person and he is saying that with my equipment I'll need NN5, because I wont be able to tilt very well. More expensive stuff.

If you review my posts I think you will find that's what I've been trying to tell you all along?

Nobody said that getting a pano system together for a high-end DSLR like your D300 would be cheap.

Adam wrote:I shot trial panorama in my back yard just with level tripod. What do you think?

It's OK, nothing too close to the camera so parallax not too much of an issue - but VFOV is very restricted - hey, that's why you need a pano head!
Adam wrote:Still looking for good book or tutorials how to shoot panoramas.

There are none that I've come across - take advice from others, for example on this forum, and just practice, practice, practice then seek more advice when things don't work out as you expect. I think they call it 'learning by doing'.

There are some basic 'rules' that will help you get started:

1. Get a pano head and make sure it is level and that you have the NPP set correctly for the lens you are are using.

2. Aim for about 30% overlaps between images.

3. Use manual settings for exposure, white balance and focus - same settings for every shot in a pano. You can play with breaking this 'rule' once you have some experience under your belt.

4. Never use a flash.

5. Use a good stitcher like APP!

You can get more elaborate later on - if you wish - for example with exposure bracketing, exposure blending, correction of chromatic aberration, High Dynamic Range (HDR) imaging, etc etc etc. But these are merely refinements. I believe you are better off forgetting about all this stuff until the 'basics' are second nature.
Last edited by mediavets on Sat Nov 15, 2008 1:47 am, edited 1 time in total.
Andrew Stephens
Many different Nodal Ninja and Agnos pano heads. Merlin/Panogear mount with Papywizard on Nokia Internet tablets.
Nikon D5100 and D40, Sigma 8mm f3.5 FE, Nikon 10.5mm FE, 35mm, 50mm, 18-55mm, 70-210mm. Promote control.

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by Adam » Sat Nov 15, 2008 1:17 am

VFOV stands for what?
Thanks!
I'll get pano head soon.
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by Adam » Sat Nov 15, 2008 1:29 am

What is Merlin/Orion panohead + Papywizard on Nokia 770?
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by mediavets » Sat Nov 15, 2008 1:40 am

Adam wrote:VFOV stands for what?

Vertical Field Of View.
Andrew Stephens
Many different Nodal Ninja and Agnos pano heads. Merlin/Panogear mount with Papywizard on Nokia Internet tablets.
Nikon D5100 and D40, Sigma 8mm f3.5 FE, Nikon 10.5mm FE, 35mm, 50mm, 18-55mm, 70-210mm. Promote control.

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by mediavets » Sat Nov 15, 2008 1:43 am

Andrew Stephens
Many different Nodal Ninja and Agnos pano heads. Merlin/Panogear mount with Papywizard on Nokia Internet tablets.
Nikon D5100 and D40, Sigma 8mm f3.5 FE, Nikon 10.5mm FE, 35mm, 50mm, 18-55mm, 70-210mm. Promote control.

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by Adam » Sat Nov 15, 2008 3:05 am

This is way above me now. Do you really have it working? Must be neat. Do you have picture of this gizmo that you could post? Also any images made with it? If yes I can provide you my email address. Thank you now for all your help. I may have some questions later. I actually I do have one now. Could I use only horizontal rail attached to rotator and take good pano images. I could also tilt my tripod head vertically and take panos in portait mode. The rail would help me adjust for NPP. [h]Am I missing something here?[/h] Why does it have to be "L" shaped bracket? I don't need to tilt up and down for simple pano shots.
I really appreciate any input.
interested in panorama photography

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by mediavets » Sat Nov 15, 2008 9:45 am

Adam wrote:This is way above me now. Do you really have it working? Must be neat. Do you have picture of this gizmo that you could post?

There are pictures and a short video at the bottom of Jason's blog page:
http://gigapans.blogspot.com/

Adam wrote:Also any images made with it?

Panos made with Merlin/Papywizard look like panos made with any other head - it is simply an automated, robotic two-axis pano head which moves the camera and takes the photos automatically. This is a great advantage if you are shooting higher-resolution panos involving say 30-300 or more pictures. Here's one shot with Merlin/Papywizard:
http://www.gigapan.org/viewGigapan.php?id=3018

Adam wrote:I don't need to tilt up and down for simple pano shots.

Without being able to rotate the camera/lens up and down around the NPP your pano will be composed of a single row of images and the VFOV of the pano will be restricted to the HFOV (Horizontal Field Of View) of your lens if the camera is mounted in portrait orientation, which is most commonly used to shoot panos; or restricted to VFOV of your lens if your camera is mounted in landscape orientation.

You will find some images sets here if you want something else to practice stitching - most of them shot my fisheye lenses:
http://www.three60views.org.uk

More sample image sets here - some quite tricky to stitch:
http://www.agnos.com/samples.htm?v_lingua=ENG&v_iss_web=0000000008111510053640193709&v_menu_lista=MSXDX-MENSX-MSD03-M0302

Here's the APP tutorial on stitching FE images:
http://www.autopano.net/wiki/action/view/How_to_use_the_fisheye_detection

More documentation for APP:
http://www.autopano.net/wiki/action/view/Main_Page
Last edited by mediavets on Sat Nov 15, 2008 10:16 am, edited 1 time in total.
Andrew Stephens
Many different Nodal Ninja and Agnos pano heads. Merlin/Panogear mount with Papywizard on Nokia Internet tablets.
Nikon D5100 and D40, Sigma 8mm f3.5 FE, Nikon 10.5mm FE, 35mm, 50mm, 18-55mm, 70-210mm. Promote control.

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by Adam » Sat Nov 15, 2008 3:49 pm

Well, well I say it's pretty complicated for now. Thank you!
Can Orion mount be operated manually to take panos?
Did you say that you use NN5L?
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by mediavets » Sat Nov 15, 2008 4:24 pm

Adam wrote:Well, well I say it's pretty complicated for now. Thank you!
Can Orion mount be operated manually to take panos?

You can program it to stop and wait at each shooting position so that you can manually trigger the shutter. But this rather misses the point of having a robotic head. As I mentioned before a robotic head comes into its own when shooting panos comprising a LOT of images.

Adam wrote:Did you say that you use NN5L?

Yes. My 'signature' beneath each post list the equipment I have and use. I have several cameras and lenses and several different pano heads.

I mostly use the NN5L with my D40 DSLR and the Sigma 8mm and Nikkor 10.5mm fisheye (FE) lenses. An NN3 would be fine for those combinations - the D40 is a very light and compact DSLR body and the two FE lenses are quite short - but I chose the NN5L because it offered the scope to handle just about any camera body and lens I might use in the future.
Andrew Stephens
Many different Nodal Ninja and Agnos pano heads. Merlin/Panogear mount with Papywizard on Nokia Internet tablets.
Nikon D5100 and D40, Sigma 8mm f3.5 FE, Nikon 10.5mm FE, 35mm, 50mm, 18-55mm, 70-210mm. Promote control.

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by Adam » Sat Nov 15, 2008 5:30 pm

Hello, I have to say that panorama photography is NOT cheap. Do you think that I can get away with Tokina 116? Am I right to think that NPP changes with focal length adjustment and maybe aperture setting?
I'll get NN5 when it comes out later this year.
Can I upload here PDF file? How?
Last edited by Adam on Sat Nov 15, 2008 5:31 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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by mediavets » Sat Nov 15, 2008 7:13 pm

Adam wrote:Hello, I have to say that panorama photography is NOT cheap. Do you think that I can get away with Tokina 116? Am I right to think that NPP changes with focal length adjustment and maybe aperture setting?
I'll get NN5 when it comes out later this year.
Can I upload here PDF file? How?

Yes, Tokina 116 will be fine.

As I've mentioned before you can shoot panos with any lens - but the longer the focal length and hence the smaller the FOV then the more shots it will take to cover any given scene.

To cover the full 360x180 degress for a spherical pano with the fewest shots requires a fisheye lens - that's why they are popular wiith pano photographers who shoot sphericals. Most spherical panos are shot to be displayed on the Web - and a DSLR with a FE lens will produce a spherical pano with suffiicient resolution for fuullscreen display with just 4-8 shots.

But many pano photographers never shoot sphericals but specialise in say very wide angle partial panos (ie. less than 360x180 coverage) often of dramatic landscapes. They may never display these panos on the Web but instead make large scale prints. These photographers would never use a fisheye lens.

Here's a panoramic lens database that gives you an idea of the number of images required for 360x180 coverage with different lenses and camera bodies:
http://uploadme.evonet.ro/panoramic/photography/lens_database.html

............

Yes, NPP changes with focal length - so using a zoom lens it will vary with the degree of zoom. It will also be different for different models of lens with the same focal length.

The Nodal Ninja lens/head settings tables show that:
http://www.nodalninja.com/html/settings.html
..............

No you cannot upload anything but image files. You can upload up to 20 images per post, each image must be less then 4000x3000 pixels and 800 KB.
Last edited by mediavets on Sat Nov 15, 2008 7:15 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Andrew Stephens
Many different Nodal Ninja and Agnos pano heads. Merlin/Panogear mount with Papywizard on Nokia Internet tablets.
Nikon D5100 and D40, Sigma 8mm f3.5 FE, Nikon 10.5mm FE, 35mm, 50mm, 18-55mm, 70-210mm. Promote control.

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by Adam » Sat Nov 15, 2008 10:39 pm

Hello,
Interesting links. I will refer to them from time to time.
Now leveling my tripod base is a child's play now, leveling head still requires some adjusting, because markings on its tilt controls are crude and hard to zero and see. Also, I don't think that camera plate is quit square. Would you take a look at Manfrotto 804RC2 and let me know what you think. I can still return it for a different head. The only thing I'm worry about that ball head wont be easier to level. What a nightmare. I bought hot shoe bubble on ebay from Hong kong and it doesn't fit hot shoe.
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by Adam » Sat Nov 15, 2008 10:52 pm

Hey, what do you think of this one?

http://www.stereoscopy.com/jasper/index.html
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by mediavets » Sun Nov 16, 2008 12:01 am

Adam wrote:Hey, what do you think of this one?

http://www.stereoscopy.com/jasper/index.html

Only suitable for single row panos - it does not maintain the NPP when tilted.
Andrew Stephens
Many different Nodal Ninja and Agnos pano heads. Merlin/Panogear mount with Papywizard on Nokia Internet tablets.
Nikon D5100 and D40, Sigma 8mm f3.5 FE, Nikon 10.5mm FE, 35mm, 50mm, 18-55mm, 70-210mm. Promote control.

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by Adam » Sun Nov 16, 2008 5:25 am

Why didn't you say anything about my previous message?
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by mediavets » Sun Nov 16, 2008 9:25 am

Adam wrote:Why didn't you say anything about my previous message?

Because I didn't understand what you were trying to say.
For pano shooting you don't need anything between the pano head you don't yet have and the levelling centre column. So what is all the stuff about tilt heads and ball heads?
http://www.chem.ox.ac.uk/oxfordtour/tutorial/index.asp?ID=25&pagename=My%20Tripod%20Setup
Last edited by mediavets on Sun Nov 16, 2008 9:33 am, edited 1 time in total.
Andrew Stephens
Many different Nodal Ninja and Agnos pano heads. Merlin/Panogear mount with Papywizard on Nokia Internet tablets.
Nikon D5100 and D40, Sigma 8mm f3.5 FE, Nikon 10.5mm FE, 35mm, 50mm, 18-55mm, 70-210mm. Promote control.

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by Adam » Sun Nov 16, 2008 3:05 pm

Nobody understands what I'm saying, even myself. Never mind.
I don't think I will be taking spherical panoramas and whatever other kind there are. I just want to photograph nice vistas, like panorama camera does. At least not now. What equipment could I use then?
How do you know that Jasper Eng. is no good.
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by mediavets » Sun Nov 16, 2008 4:24 pm

Adam wrote:Nobody understands what I'm saying, even myself. Never mind.
I don't think I will be taking spherical panoramas and whatever other kind there are. I just want to photograph nice vistas, like panorama camera does. At least not now. What equipment could I use then?
How do you know that Jasper Eng. is no good.

If you are happy with just single row panos with camera in either landscape or portrait orientation then you could use the Jasper Eng. product, because that is what it is designed for. Or you could use the Nodal Ninja 180 - with an L-bracket if you wish to mount the camera in portrait mode.
http://www.nodalninja.com/#nn180

If you think that you may ever also wish to shoot multi-row panos then you should opt for the NN5L IMO.
Andrew Stephens
Many different Nodal Ninja and Agnos pano heads. Merlin/Panogear mount with Papywizard on Nokia Internet tablets.
Nikon D5100 and D40, Sigma 8mm f3.5 FE, Nikon 10.5mm FE, 35mm, 50mm, 18-55mm, 70-210mm. Promote control.

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by Adam » Sun Nov 16, 2008 6:27 pm

O.K. got it. I have to read up on panorama photography. The winter is here and my shooting is limited now. I'll take it slow and decide which equipment I need and want. Thanks for all help.
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by mediavets » Sun Nov 16, 2008 6:59 pm

Andrew Stephens
Many different Nodal Ninja and Agnos pano heads. Merlin/Panogear mount with Papywizard on Nokia Internet tablets.
Nikon D5100 and D40, Sigma 8mm f3.5 FE, Nikon 10.5mm FE, 35mm, 50mm, 18-55mm, 70-210mm. Promote control.

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by Adam » Sun Nov 16, 2008 10:36 pm

How were this pictures made into vitual tour (spherical panorama?)
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by Adam » Sun Nov 16, 2008 11:06 pm

I wonder if I can get NN180 and then if I want to ypgrade to NN5. How do I attach my camera to NN180 in portrait position?
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by mediavets » Sun Nov 16, 2008 11:14 pm

Don't think they offer that upgrade but you could ask.

For portrait orientation you would need to source a third-party L-bracket.
Last edited by mediavets on Sun Nov 16, 2008 11:14 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Andrew Stephens
Many different Nodal Ninja and Agnos pano heads. Merlin/Panogear mount with Papywizard on Nokia Internet tablets.
Nikon D5100 and D40, Sigma 8mm f3.5 FE, Nikon 10.5mm FE, 35mm, 50mm, 18-55mm, 70-210mm. Promote control.

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