360cam  

In the panorama field, hardware is also part of the success. You can discuss here about it: camera, computer, pano head, anything
no avatar
Destiny
Moderator
 
Topic author
Posts: 7886
Likes: 6 posts
Liked in: 228 posts
Joined: Mon Apr 26, 2010 11:55 pm
Info

360cam

by Destiny » Tue Mar 31, 2015 9:39 am

Looks like the 360cam has finally showcasing a 360 video.. Sad to say it doesn't run on my Mac very well.. Parts of the video quality are ok but I don't not think it is much good in direct sunlight.. The Zenith is a bit iffy too...

I will wait to see other final 360 demos before giving a final judgement on this new gadget.. However, so far I would say for the money, which is not cheap, I would not bother wasting my money on it.. Only time will tell if its improved on.. Not sure if you order one its available or its still a pre-order product..

http://360.tv/#360_Player

Destiny..

no avatar
HansKeesom
Member
 
Posts: 2210
Likes: 1 post
Liked in: 2 posts
Joined: Mon Jul 19, 2010 8:53 pm
Info

Re: 360cam

by HansKeesom » Tue Mar 31, 2015 1:03 pm

When going 360 you need more dynamic range, certainly with bright sunlight.
Images shown are rather blurry or soft, like one is watching low-level video. This is not like one is watching 4K on one's screen, not even a quarter of it.

no avatar
Destiny
Moderator
 
Topic author
Posts: 7886
Likes: 6 posts
Liked in: 228 posts
Joined: Mon Apr 26, 2010 11:55 pm
Info

Re: 360cam

by Destiny » Tue Mar 31, 2015 9:35 pm

Agreed.. This gadget is supposed to be "The Worlds First HD 360 Camera.. I am sure that title is yet to come.. Notice they do not claim to have the first HDR cam so that might be a bit of a confusion. Since what is really needed is 'The Worlds Fist HDR Camera'. Seems that there are a few all with the same inadequate quality.. The Bubl-360 Camera, 360fly, which is again a pre-order unit.. Hard to imagine people parting with so much money on a un-revieved camera. Yet they seem to be. Which just goes to show that this kind of gadget is in demand..

I have yet so see a real alternative producing good quality.. In my opinion, the lower end units now available are all way over priced with poor quality.. You need to spend a lot more money to get good quality. I feel the LadyBug is one of them..

Destiny..

no avatar
Destiny
Moderator
 
Topic author
Posts: 7886
Likes: 6 posts
Liked in: 228 posts
Joined: Mon Apr 26, 2010 11:55 pm
Info

Re: 360cam

by Destiny » Tue Mar 31, 2015 10:00 pm

If you check out the true meaning of HD, I would question the 360cam's claim as actually being HD video.... If our HD TV showcased the 360cam quality, I would have taken it back to the shop... :rolleyes:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1080p

Destiny..

no avatar
HansKeesom
Member
 
Posts: 2210
Likes: 1 post
Liked in: 2 posts
Joined: Mon Jul 19, 2010 8:53 pm
Info

Re: 360cam

by HansKeesom » Wed Apr 01, 2015 7:25 pm

Problem of course is that one sees about 90 degrees out of 360 so only a quarter. Things would be already better when one would have a 180 degrees display like this https://www.infoversum.nl/

User avatar
gkaefer
Member
 
Posts: 3549
Likes: 0 post
Liked in: 15 posts
Joined: Tue Jun 09, 2009 1:01 pm
Location: Salzburg
Info

Re: 360cam

by gkaefer » Fri Apr 03, 2015 1:25 pm

Last Update on Kickstarter (copy&pasted without images nore videos) from March 30:

"We know you’ve been waiting for this one for a long time, and we’ll explain everything a bit further down… but first thing first, let’s go for HARD news: as of this very moment, almost all development kits have been SHIPPED. We’ve been starting shipping on Wednesday, and are shipping since then a bit more everyday.

So what happened?

As told in the last update, right after the DevKits production rush, our tech team started to check the cameras before shipping them out. Of course those specific 360cam are development kits, and were not expected to be matching the final ones on many levels, but one particular problem immediately got our attention: we could still see color differences from one sensor to another. Now that meant a lot, because that's the very reason why we’ve made the tough choice to change them to offer the very best experience, and the reason why we’re currently running months late on our initial schedule (yep, turns out changing crucial hardware parts in a world unique technology isn't exactly as simple as changing tubes on a bike :) ).

So that could have meant everything for us, and at that point, there were no way to tell if it was a matter of weeks, or a matter of months to solve it, so we decided to schedule our next update on 2 key points:

- Get that point clear so we could actually know (and tell you) what it mean for the project
- Get the DevKits OUT (for many, MANY reasons :) )

Today, we ticked both boxes.
Turns out the color differences was due to the assembly process we used for the DevKits, which wasn’t accurate enough to reach the level of precision we need to reach to get where we wanted. The good news (and huge relief for everyone) is that it will be solved by our final assembly process. That would have added a few weeks more in our roadmap, but that’s it. And now, it’s developper backers and firmware tuning time!

Here are a few shots of the team working at our French office:

About the Development Kits

So the developer backers are now getting access to their kits:
• The 360cam DevKit camera. Close to the final fixed hardware, they differ from the final 360cam in:
- Optical capacities (based on the process we used, they are known to meet at various levels lens blur, stitching calibration errors, image artefacts, and those famous color differences)
- No GPS ship activated
- Cosmetic/mechanical differences (different clips, different finish…)
- And of course by running an alpha firmware

• Development resources
- API to take control of the camera
- Open source players for any platform
- Sample files (including GPS, and motion tracking datas)
- A developer forum

Everything is now speeding up, and now that the hardware part is almost done, the team is focusing on the firmware part. And while hardware takes AGES (you might have noticed by now), firmware upgrade and Development Kits out mean two things: faster evolution pace, and upcoming alpha videos!

So instead of telling you what we do, we’ll now be SHOWING you the progress we make. So let’s start here. We’ve been asked shots on drones, and low light capabilities, well, we had no idea what was going to happen, but we gave it a (360) shot! We were lucky enough to meet with the Hak5 Team (huge thank!) and their amazing warehouse, take a 360cam DevKit out, and fly it for a bit; Pineapple style:

Playing and sharing 360° contents

With Virtual Reality (and OF COURSE more importantly our 360cam) coming up, we are pleased to see more platforms announcing spherical 360° video and photo support. Has you might have seen, Youtube and Facebook both recently launched/announced it.

We are also thrilled to see that others platforms are showing up (Littlstar, Vrideo to name a few), and probably many more coming up, enriching this whole new era of immersive contents. That’s the vision we share, and that’s why we not only try to make the best possible players, but also made them open source so developers can build their own applications. Now that we have a few options out, we are very interested in your feedback: what are your favorite players, functionalities? What would do you want to see/improve on ours?

(Not so) MicroSD

As we were running tests with the DevKits cameras, we took the opportunity to try the full Sandisk MicroSD range out. We are pleased to tell you that you will be able to use up to 128Gb MicroSDs! (Class 10). That should give you enough room to make tons of videos, photos and very long timelapses..

That's it for this time, but be sure you'll get news on a much more regular basis from now on. :)

Till next time!

The GIROPTIC Team"

source: https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/gi ... ts/1182165

Georg

User avatar
gkaefer
Member
 
Posts: 3549
Likes: 0 post
Liked in: 15 posts
Joined: Tue Jun 09, 2009 1:01 pm
Location: Salzburg
Info

Re: 360cam

by gkaefer » Fri Apr 03, 2015 1:30 pm

and 4 days ago the Giroptic Team commented this above updated with following:

"Hello everyone,

We'll try to answer as many questions as possible:

- About the quality: as written, and specified, those are the first images of our development kits. Not only are indeed the camera facing issues (optical blurs, colors differences, no full stitching calibration etc) but there are basically no tuning at all on the image side (white balance, sharpness, color balance..), and that's the work we are starting right now. The same way you wouldn't compare a Oculus Rift DK1 or DK2 to a final product, there is no point in comparing the image you see at this point to what you expect them to be on the final camera. Of course we won't have x3 the resolution, but that will indeed be better, and that's why will be uploading images now that we have working cameras on a regular basis, so we can show you the evolution, even considering the known hardware optical flaws.
We made the choice to share early images with you because it's part of the development process. And when it's about development of a camera, it's starts with electronic parts all over the place, then bad images, then hopefully a final product and happy everyone. :)
So if you're happy with what you see, we're pleased to hear it! And you know it will get even better as we get closer to the final batch. If you're not, well at least understand where we're at, and wait for the final one to be able settle on this. ;)
Talking about the "facing the sun" issue, well, our main demo video (the roller coaster one), shot with an early prototype, is precisely doing that, and doing a fairly good job at it while not being as good as the final expected final one. So you shouldn't worry about this one too much! We've been in 360° for almost 7 years now, no doubt we've already been working on some issues other camera makers never had to face.

- No GPS on DK. It's again because of the assembly process we picked for this camera. The GPS ship is located on top of the camera and it will have to be part of the molding process. Of course we have prototypes with working GPS, but it would have required again several weeks to implement that on DK cameras. That's why we uploaded file samples with all datas (GPS, gyroscope, accelerometer..) so developers can work on their app and know how to use/test those datas before receiving their final camera.

- The cameras can indeed be used while connected to a USB power source. So you can use external batteries or constant power to extend your shots.

- As for the micro SD, we haven't tried the 200G one, but we'll definitely tell you if we do. :)

- Regular backers / customers will be able to access development ressources later this year, as the camera will be available to anyone. You can already register to access it later here: http://360.tv/developer-form/

So everyone, don't freak out! We are shipping DKs (and yes, "THIS - IS - LEGIT") and are working hard on the coolest camera the world as ever seen. And the greatest thing of all, you'll be the first to get it! :)

Cheers,

The GIROPTIC Team
"

no avatar
Destiny
Moderator
 
Topic author
Posts: 7886
Likes: 6 posts
Liked in: 228 posts
Joined: Mon Apr 26, 2010 11:55 pm
Info

Re: 360cam

by Destiny » Fri Apr 03, 2015 1:48 pm

I wonder if they are referring to their demo output quality on their website...

"So everyone, don't freak out! We are shipping DKs (and yes, "THIS - IS - LEGIT") and are working hard on the coolest camera the world as ever seen. And the greatest thing of all, you'll be the first to get it! "

If yes, I would hate to have seen their previous demos.. I still fail to understand how they can claim HD statues... When to me it does not meet the specifications standards associated with HD..

I look forward to reading the reviews and seeing what owners of this gadget produce... Even though I am very sceptical about this new gadget, I would still like to road test one...

Destiny...

User avatar
Christian Stüben
Member
 
Posts: 378
Likes: 3 posts
Liked in: 9 posts
Joined: Tue Jul 03, 2012 5:08 am
Location: Wuppertal, Germany
Info

Re: 360cam

by Christian Stüben » Fri Apr 03, 2015 3:00 pm

I have had a look at the demo 360° video...

Resolution better than the theta m15, but same problems at the separations between the lenses.

A big plus is the waterresistance of the 360cam, if it would have been available more early, i wouldn´t have started building an underwater housing for my m15 ;-(

greetings form germany
Chris

no avatar
HansKeesom
Member
 
Posts: 2210
Likes: 1 post
Liked in: 2 posts
Joined: Mon Jul 19, 2010 8:53 pm
Info

Re: 360cam

by HansKeesom » Sun Apr 05, 2015 4:29 pm

The problems between the lenses are never gonna be solved by any camera, there will just be situations where you do not notice it that much.
The only option for perfect 3d-video would be to make a 3d computer model of reality based on what the different camera's see and from that recreate a video that has a perfect nadir.

User avatar
gkaefer
Member
 
Posts: 3549
Likes: 0 post
Liked in: 15 posts
Joined: Tue Jun 09, 2009 1:01 pm
Location: Salzburg
Info

Re: 360cam

by gkaefer » Sun Apr 19, 2015 1:52 pm

dev kits are out now ;-)
first Review: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p6oYaFw ... e=youtu.be
360 Video made with this dev kit: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MtRU8WP ... 1709959191
funny dialect & voice ;-)

and playlist of all dev kit Videos: https://twitter.com/hashtag/CantWaitToP ... e&src=hash
direct YouTube playlist: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=P ... 8LLKooUruS

no avatar
HansKeesom
Member
 
Posts: 2210
Likes: 1 post
Liked in: 2 posts
Joined: Mon Jul 19, 2010 8:53 pm
Info

Re: 360cam

by HansKeesom » Sun Apr 19, 2015 9:33 pm

so it gets hot and delivers lousy quality stitching and video. No nadir also.....pffff haven't they learned anything?
My bet is on an update of the Ricoh theta which has an optical advantage to start with as it has less to none parallax error.

no avatar
Destiny
Moderator
 
Topic author
Posts: 7886
Likes: 6 posts
Liked in: 228 posts
Joined: Mon Apr 26, 2010 11:55 pm
Info

Re: 360cam

by Destiny » Sun Apr 19, 2015 9:54 pm

Well, nothing surprised me in viewing the demos. Terrible audio.. Would I pay the money they are asking for it, NO! But so many people have been willing to just jump in and pay long before its been fully developed. I guess if people are happy to pay that kind of money for this gadget then its up to them. ... But I wouldn't..

Destiny..

User avatar
gkaefer
Member
 
Posts: 3549
Likes: 0 post
Liked in: 15 posts
Joined: Tue Jun 09, 2009 1:01 pm
Location: Salzburg
Info

Re: 360cam

by gkaefer » Sun Apr 19, 2015 11:12 pm

The Sound issue was addressed with last Kickstarter update. they did something wrong with the codec used. with next Firmware update this will be fixed.
The Image Quality we really dont Need to discuss. they do struggle with Quality issues caused by misalignment of the lenses. Will be fixed with the final Batch for the public.
The seams - they do state - will also be addressed (fixed?) before final product be available.

To be fair. they to stitch the 3 videostreams live and the stitched Video will be saved on sd Card.

yes it would be better to Keep the device cooler than the reported 45-50 degree Celsius.
but hey, my UMI ZERO mobile phone will also get the 49 degree mark while fast charging with 2A .... ;-((

... and most Kickstarters "did get" the 360cam for 329$ or below.... so far away from the now available "preorder-price" 499$.

I'm confident the device will be usable for fun purposes finally.
I never had in mind to use this commercially (replacing a Canon 5DsR ;-) ... had Hands on the 5DsR last friday...)

no avatar
Destiny
Moderator
 
Topic author
Posts: 7886
Likes: 6 posts
Liked in: 228 posts
Joined: Mon Apr 26, 2010 11:55 pm
Info

Re: 360cam

by Destiny » Sun Apr 19, 2015 11:47 pm

Thats close to $700 Aus with tax for Australia and might even be more.. Way over priced.. Might as well by the Ricoh Theta with far better technology and optics.. But there again, I wouldn't buy one of those either. I am waiting on a real solution which I am sure will come.. There is a lot of money being poorer into developing new VR technologies..
http://uploadvr.com/eevo-announces-1m-i ... lix-of-vr/ In time we will see great advancements in the technology.. I read something a few weeks ago where Google was designing a 360 fun cam.. They have the resources and tech knowledge to do it too..

Destiny...

no avatar
HansKeesom
Member
 
Posts: 2210
Likes: 1 post
Liked in: 2 posts
Joined: Mon Jul 19, 2010 8:53 pm
Info

Re: 360cam

by HansKeesom » Thu Apr 30, 2015 12:03 pm

To be honest, I don't believe in the whole 360 video, the medium is too chaotic, too much a dumping of lot's of imagery without any structure. It's gonna fail and some people will loose lot's of money.

no avatar
Destiny
Moderator
 
Topic author
Posts: 7886
Likes: 6 posts
Liked in: 228 posts
Joined: Mon Apr 26, 2010 11:55 pm
Info

Re: 360cam

by Destiny » Thu Apr 30, 2015 12:07 pm

I disagree that the media will fail.. I would agree that the quality is so yuck at the moment... and the hardware is so over priced.. To setup a rig using GoPros is a real risk.. The setup cost is far too high.. A single GoPro is way over priced..

Destiny..

HansKeesom wrote:To be honest, I don't believe in the whole 360 video, the medium is too chaotic, too much a dumping of lot's of imagery without any structure. It's gonna fail and some people will loose lot's of money.

User avatar
klausesser
Member
 
Posts: 8836
Likes: 5 posts
Liked in: 64 posts
Joined: Mon May 22, 2006 12:18 am
Location: Duesseldorf, Germany
Info

Re: 360cam

by klausesser » Thu Apr 30, 2015 2:09 pm

HansKeesom wrote:To be honest, I don't believe in the whole 360 video, the medium is too chaotic, too much a dumping of lot's of imagery without any structure. It's gonna fail and some people will loose lot's of money.



What i hear from clients: they hate it. It´s extremely uncomfortable for the customer, its of rather mediocre quality,
simply: they can´t see any sense under commercial aspects as a medium for presenting content to the public.
The pulic is intensely irritated by this technology.

I guess the developers often make the mistake seeing these things too one-minded from THEIR point of view - and not from the point of view of the final recipients.

Conclusion: actually there´s a VERY small market, almost impossible to earn the money back you invested in the hard-/software.

Clients who are willing to pay appropriate prices demand much higher quality and better usability.
What we see everywhere i doubt is profitable . . .

The standard of quality which well made interactive panorama-photography provide is the mark.
To match this mark is a very long way to go, i mean!

Klaus

no avatar
HansKeesom
Member
 
Posts: 2210
Likes: 1 post
Liked in: 2 posts
Joined: Mon Jul 19, 2010 8:53 pm
Info

Re: 360cam

by HansKeesom » Tue May 05, 2015 7:47 am

Hi Klaus,

It's great that we have the same opinion here.

User avatar
gkaefer
Member
 
Posts: 3549
Likes: 0 post
Liked in: 15 posts
Joined: Tue Jun 09, 2009 1:01 pm
Location: Salzburg
Info

Re: 360cam

by gkaefer » Tue May 05, 2015 8:31 pm

I can understand all arguments against that sort of devices....
not really cheap, no average mobile phone Image Quality etc.
I backed this device as mentioned before because of lower Price.

please have allways in mind that the 360cam does stitch 30x3 HD Images with 185deegree fov per second inside the cam and it saves a final Video on sd Card. live. no postproduction needed, no kolor Software no ptgui no panotour.
just upload from cam to social Networks, using iPhone, iPad or any Android tablet.
not the 4k Monitors next to our Xeon Workstations are the audience for those media, ist the Holiday & Weekend gopro Junkies....

so maybe we will see similar devices from kolor/gopro in future, most likely with better quality...
giroptics does it now. in 3 years we will look at These Videos like we now look on hour mobile phone Images from 2008...

Georg

no avatar
HansKeesom
Member
 
Posts: 2210
Likes: 1 post
Liked in: 2 posts
Joined: Mon Jul 19, 2010 8:53 pm
Info

Re: 360cam

by HansKeesom » Sat May 09, 2015 4:39 pm

I am sure it it technically a amazing thing they are doing. However the result is ####.

But even when they one day scale things up to 8k horizontally, 360 video has a flaw itself, due to the fact that things might be happening behind me and I might miss it. I can't stop the video all the time to look around. Frankly, I miss the cameraman.

The only usefull use of 360 video is if afterwards someone selects the direction where one has to look to see the action, so cuts a rectangle that can be displayed on a normal screen. That also means you want to be able to zoom afterwards and means the recordings needs to be superhigh resolution.......practically it will be easier to use a cameraman to start with....

no avatar
Destiny
Moderator
 
Topic author
Posts: 7886
Likes: 6 posts
Liked in: 228 posts
Joined: Mon Apr 26, 2010 11:55 pm
Info

Re: 360cam

by Destiny » Sun May 10, 2015 12:29 am

If the GoPro rig was not so expensive it would be the best option even though it still not perfect.. The focus on the ground object is good, at least you have image on the Nadir rather than a big black hole, the image quality overall is good too, but what lets it down is the stitching, which suggest something is not right with rigs since I have yet to see a perfect results.. The blend of images is a software issue.. Considering the cost of all this hardware and software, I would expect a lot better.

Here using the Kolor demo video resources, I tried to use the De-haze but its not so good.. Perhaps the De-haze for Photoshop is better with more control..

http://www.destinyvirtualtours.com/PTPV ... lloon.html

Also interesting to note, unless I change the TIF to sRGB before putting the pano into PTP, the colour will change when adding it to PTP, more noticeable at the red balloon.. Not everyone has Photoshop or other software to edit the colour space...

Destiny..

no avatar
Destiny
Moderator
 
Topic author
Posts: 7886
Likes: 6 posts
Liked in: 228 posts
Joined: Mon Apr 26, 2010 11:55 pm
Info

Re: 360cam

by Destiny » Sun May 10, 2015 2:34 am

A little trick Alexandre Jenny told me a long time ago to check the NPP was to use your middle mouse and flick between slices in APG Edit. I have found this to be really helpful to gain an indicator of the NPP settings.. If I use that same process after pressing Edit in APV, which opens APG, the movement of images is huge.. Suggesting that the NPP is way out.. I think its due to the fact that it can never be right since no two camera lenses can occupy the same space.. Therefore, the stitching quality using the current rigs available can never be perfect no mater what you do..

Destiny...

no avatar
Destiny
Moderator
 
Topic author
Posts: 7886
Likes: 6 posts
Liked in: 228 posts
Joined: Mon Apr 26, 2010 11:55 pm
Info

Re: 360cam

by Destiny » Mon May 11, 2015 10:02 am

To be honest, I really love the 360 Video media.. Its very different very new with so many possibilities.. What I do not like is the setup cost, and the quality.. I feel that the 6 GoPro cameras is not the answer.. Far too expensive no matter which rig is used.. 360 Video is really only acceptable for social media until the quality improves so not really ready for high-end production due to the quality not being there yet, but the cost to set it up suggest it is for high-end production. Any basic social media user would not not be willing to spend heaps of money.. Its evident that this is begging to become a popular media, giving rise to units like the 360cam with questionable outputs quality..

Not sure how to showcase a 360 video here... This is the Kolor 360 Bike demo.. Its more than just a picture... Its the full picture.. Our world is 3D or 360.. So why not showcase it as it is seen by us all.... I feel the future of 360 video is huge. This is only the beginning..

[KolorEyes]http://www.destinyvirtualtours.com/360Bke/Bike.mp4[/KolorEyes]

Destiny...


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 3 guests