Bushman Kalahari  

In the panorama field, hardware is also part of the success. You can discuss here about it: camera, computer, pano head, anything
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Bushman Kalahari

by thepcman » Wed Jun 18, 2014 6:18 pm

I did not want to post here but I am now a little over a week with a Bushman Kalahari that simply is not working for me.
1. It will not level not matter what I do
2. I cannot get a perfect stitch out of it.
3. My $99.00 Panosarus works better than it.

It could be a defective one and I understand that things can be defective, what I cannot understand is, why after spending over $400.00 US with a company as huge as Kolor, no one is responding to my emails.

I cannot give Kolor money and get no service.

Anyone here using the Bushman Kalahari?

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Re: Bushman Kalahari

by mediavets » Wed Jun 18, 2014 6:48 pm

thepcman wrote:I did not want to post here but I am now a little over a week with a Bushman Kalahari that simply is not working for me.
1. It will not level not matter what I do

What do you mean by 'it will not level'?

2. I cannot get a perfect stitch out of it.

What camera and lens are you using?
What shooting pattern are using using?

Do you want to make an image set available for download so we can take a look to see what may be the problem?

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Re: Bushman Kalahari

by thepcman » Wed Jun 18, 2014 7:13 pm

1. The pano head come with a bubble level on the bottom bar as with most pano heads.
I tried my hardest to get that buble in the center and it takes forever to get it there.

When I do get it there, and after I make one click left or right, the bubble is off center again.
I took it off the tripod, tried my old pano head and withing moments I was able to center the bubble level on that one and rotate the panao head and the bubble remains in the middle. It would make sense that if the other pano head level, taking it off and placing the bushman on it would also be level but nothing works to keep this Bushman level.

2. I am using a
Canon 5D Mark III
Sigman 8MM
Vanguard Tripod with bald head

My method and equipment are fine.
I was able to use my old rotator to do my shoot, I just needed something nicer and something with a smaller nadir footprint.
I did get nicer and smaller nadir footprint but I also wanted it to work like or better than what I had.

I tried shooting clockwise as I always do
I shot according to the allowed clicks on the rotator.

I have been doing this for a while, I just wanted to upgrade my pano head.

There is a defect in the product.
The issues I am having is not so much with the fact that I spent that much money and could not use the product but more so that no one is responding to my emails.

I will get a Nodal Ninja, I will not try this again and I will not buy it from here.
I just need my money back.

Thank you

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Re: Bushman Kalahari

by mediavets » Wed Jun 18, 2014 8:11 pm

I don't think there is anything defective with the Bushman pano head.

It is only necessary to get it approximately level for the first shot - thereafter ignore the bubble level.

No sensitive bubble level will remain exactly in the same place as you rotate a pano head (except it seems on your Panosaurus head). The bubble levels on Nodal Ninja heads certainly don't, and I have a NN5L, a NN4 and a U-R10. I also have some Agno's pano heads and some older Kaidan pano heads and they all behave likewise.

It is not essential to have the bubble level completely centred even for the first shot when shooting spherical panos because it is so easy to level a panorama in the APP/APG Panorama Editor.

.....................

I have a Manfrotto 055XProB tripod with a 555B leveling centre column which makes it quick and easy to get the panop head leveled up.

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Re: Bushman Kalahari

by thepcman » Wed Jun 18, 2014 8:20 pm

You are still missing the point.

1. I have been doing this for a while now.
2. Within the same day (Time period). I mounted the Bushman and could not get proper stitch results then I mounted the Panosarus and get perfect stitch.
3. The nodal point was properly setup but still having stitching errors.
4. Are you saying it's not possible for the rotator to be defective?
5. Look, I want this to work, that's why I spent hours trying to get it to work and hoping it would. I liked it because it's small and it actually matched my other gears, even my camera bag so I am not trying to bad-mouth the product, I am just ashamed of the service behind the product and I think it's defective.
6. Why would I want to take time to level a pano in the pano editor, I am use to shooting level panorama.


Last but not least.
I have had no response to my email even after 5 days and I only have 15 day return window.

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Re: Bushman Kalahari

by mediavets » Wed Jun 18, 2014 8:39 pm

thepcman wrote:You are still missing the point.

1. I have been doing this for a while now.
2. Within the same day (Time period). I mounted the Bushman and could not get proper stitch results then I mounted the Panosarus and get perfect stitch.
3. The nodal point was properly setup but still having stitching errors.

I don't think I am missing the point.

Your primary complaint seemed to be that the bubble level didn't remain precisely centred as you rotate the pano head.

I pointed out that a) it doesn't on every pano head I've ever used and b) it doesn't matter and c) it doesn't cause stitching problems.

Certainly you see the same behaviour with NN3, NN4 and NN5 heads - I can't talk about the Ultimate M series as I don't have one.

Level your pano head approximately for the first shot and whatever you do do not adjust it between shots.

4. Are you saying it's not possible for the rotator to be defective?

It is possible, but unlikely.

What evidence other than the bubble level not remaining perfectly centered do you have to suggest it is defective?

The most likely reason for stitching problems is shooting pattern and NPP issues.

using a Sigma 8mm fisheye on a canon 5D I would shoot 3 around, and I would suggest with a positive pitch of about 6-7.5 degrees. That will cover the zenith and leave a reasonbly small badir hole which you can handle as you wish.

Of course you may prefer to shoot a +90 zenith and a zero pitch main row of 3?

What is your shooting pattern using the Bushman?

5. Look, I want this to work, that's why I spent hours trying to get it to work and hoping it would. I liked it because it's small and it actually matched my other gears, even my camera bag so I am not trying to bad-mouth the product, I am just ashamed of the service behind the product and I think it's defective.

If you wish to make an image set - shot using the Bushman head - available for download I'd be happy to take look and see if I can spot any reason why you should be having stitching problems.

6. Why would I want to take time to level a pano in the pano editor, I am use to shooting level panorama.

Because it's probably quicker to fine tune levelling the Panorama Editor, I am assuming you use APP or APG for stitching?


Last but not least.
I have had no response to my email even after 5 days and I only have 15 day return window.[/quote]

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Re: Bushman Kalahari

by klausesser » Wed Jun 18, 2014 8:41 pm

thepcman wrote:Last but not least.
I have had no response to my email even after 5 days and I only have 15 day return window.



That´s not acceptable. I fully agree. Remember the drama regarding the Panoshoot-device . .

I have a feel Kolor sometimes doesn´t take - as Andrew also, as it seems in your case - customer´s problems seriously enough even to reflect upon there MIGHT BE indeed a real issue with the gadget.

good luck, Klaus

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Re: Bushman Kalahari

by mediavets » Wed Jun 18, 2014 8:47 pm

klausesser wrote:
thepcman wrote:Last but not least.
I have had no response to my email even after 5 days and I only have 15 day return window.



That´s not acceptable. I fully agree. Remember the drama regarding the Panoshoot-device . .

I have a feel Kolor sometimes doesn´t take - as Andrew also, as it seems in your case - customer´s problems seriously enough even to reflect upon there MIGHT BE indeed a real issue with the gadget.

good luck, Klaus

As you know Klaus I don't work for Kolor.

Yes, I agree it is unacceptable for Kolor not to respond to a customer's complaint about a product, if submitted via the appropriate 'channels'.

I am not defending Kolor, merely trying to help with the issue.

And I have acknowledged that the pano head may be faulty; but the bubble level not remaining precisely centred as you rotate a pano head does NOT of itself mean the pano head is faulty. And that's the only evidence offered so far to support a claim that the head is fauulty.

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Re: Bushman Kalahari

by klausesser » Wed Jun 18, 2014 9:04 pm

mediavets wrote:I pointed out that a) it doesn't on every pano head I've ever used and b) it doesn't matter and c) it doesn't cause stitching problems.


I suggest to leave it to the user in which way he does the levelling. As long as you levelled correctly the bubble NEEDS to stay centered.
Otherwise leveling wouldn´t make much sense at all. Given you levelled really correctly - if the bubble then does not keep centered
there is a malfunction - usually due to not carefully enough mounting the bubble.

Mounting the bubble real precisely is quite a thing! I saw it at Leitz and Dr. Clauss - and at Panoneed, when Josef
very carefully intalled the bubble on the head and "synchronized" it to the electronic bubble on the controller.
This combination works perfectly - the bubble stays centered while the head spins.

On the other hand - to be honest: today i rarely level my heads. Itcan be led easily level in the stitcher.
But when somebody does many panos in a series and needs to get them stitched very quickly (so called "automatically" ;) )
the SHOOT needs to be levelled correctly!

In the end: IF there is a bubble . . it needs to work as expected.

Klaus

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Re: Bushman Kalahari

by thepcman » Wed Jun 18, 2014 9:30 pm

Cannot believe he's saying that the level doesn't have to remain in the middle.
When I sate that is does not remain in the middle I mean, it runs way to one side, that is not supposed to happen.

Actually, the bubble is messed up because I place this
http://www.jobu-design.com/Dubble-Bubble-Level_p_58.html
On the Bushman when I know my tripod is level and it sits dead center and when I turn the Bushman, it remains center while the level on the Bushman is way in one corner. SO I am lead to think, the bushman does not give proper leveling results so when in a narrow shooting location, you will not get level stitching unless you use software correction. How is that productivity and why pay $300.00 extra on a pano head to get that result?

How do I not have a point if the level is there for the accuracy of the equipment and the level is not working properly.

I had packed it up waiting for a reply so I can ship it back but after this conversation I decided to whip it back out for another shot and now I see that the level is actually defective, what's the use of a level that does not level correctly?

mediavets seem to miss the part where I state that the tripod is leveled, I placed the old Panosarus on it, it levels, I placed the Bushman on it, it does not level, or at least the level on the bushman does not show level, please explain that.

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Re: Bushman Kalahari

by klausesser » Wed Jun 18, 2014 9:45 pm

thepcman wrote:Cannot believe he saying that the level doesn't have to remain in the middle.


I can understand you feel misunderstood. But as a matter of fact levelling indeed can be done perfectly in the editor by using the vertical lime tool.

BUT - when your bubble does not work as it´s supposed to do there definitely is a malfunction. Period.

At least Kolor should be so kind to say something, offer correction, compensation or whatever . . what companies usually do.
Or at least apologize.

Doing nothing at all in my eyes isn´t acceptable.

Klaus

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Re: Bushman Kalahari

by mediavets » Wed Jun 18, 2014 10:13 pm

thepcman wrote:Cannot believe he's saying that the level doesn't have to remain in the middle.
When I sate that is does not remain in the middle I mean, it runs way to one side, that is not supposed to happen.

Does the head appear to be loose/sloppy in it's rotation action?

mediavets seem to miss the part where I state that the tripod is leveled, I placed the old Panosarus on it, it levels, I placed the Bushman on it, it does not level, or at least the level on the bushman does not show level, please explain that.

It's pointless using multiple levels and trying to get them all level at the same time.

These small bubble levels are just not that precise; I believe the Panosaurus 2.0 has a larger bubble level that the Bushman?

Use one level and then shoot the pano.

Do we get to see a sample image set to trial stitch?

Do we get to learn what shooting pattern you use?

Do we get an explanation of why you would choose to use a Sigma 8mm fisheye on a fullframe sensor and 'waste' so many pixels?

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Re: Bushman Kalahari

by klausesser » Wed Jun 18, 2014 10:45 pm

mediavets wrote:Does the head appear to be loose/sloppy in it's rotation action?


Why would it? It´s enough when the bubble is badly inserted. Which is a not really uncommon fault. But nevertheless it´s a fault.

mediavets wrote:It's pointless using multiple levels and trying to get them all level at the same time.


No. Not at all. Given the tripod´s plate is in order - which it must be because the other head dosn´t show the issue - once levelling
the tripod needs to have the head levelled too.

Using my Monfrotto SPH i usually had the tripod levelled (the head´s bubble was broken and i used the tripod´s bubble) - the head was levelled also by being fixed to the tripod center-column.

mediavets wrote:These things are just not that accurate.


More or less - yes. But HOW MUCH less is acceptable?

mediavets wrote:Do we get an explanation of why you would choose to use a Sigma 8mm fisheye on a fullframe sensor and 'waste' so many pixels?


Not related to the issue - why wouldn´t he have his preferences? Do we need to understand his choice? No.

Of course using a circular 8mm fisheye instead of a fullframe 15mm fisheye means lots of wasted resolution and therefore a remarkable loss of quality. Especially because you save only 3 shots - max. 6 seconds . . . .

But as said: another point. Not related to a badly working bubble and also not related to Kolor´s missing reaction for 5 days now.

:cool:

Klaus

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Re: Bushman Kalahari

by mediavets » Wed Jun 18, 2014 10:58 pm

klausesser wrote:
mediavets wrote:Does the head appear to be loose/sloppy in it's rotation action?


Why would it? It´s enough when the bubble is badly inserted. Which is a not really uncommon fault. But nevertheless it´s a fault.

mediavets wrote:It's pointless using multiple levels and trying to get them all level at the same time.


No. Not at all. Given the tripod´s plate is in order - which it must be because the other head dosn´t show the issue - once levelling the tripod needs to have the head levelled too.

Using my Manfrotto SPH i usually had the tripod levelled (the head´s bubble was broken and i used the tripod´s bubble) - the head was levelled also by being fixed to the tripod center-column.


Quite, you used one level - what I suggested was that it's futile hoping that multiple small bubble levels - say one on the tripod, one on the pano head and one attached to the hotshoe on the camera - will all appear centred simultaneously; that way madness lies.

My understanding is that these small bubble levels are just not that precise nor set with that degree of precision in tripods and pano heads and so on.

Just standing your tripod on a carpet is probably going to result in the bubble level going away from centre as the pano head rotates anyway as the centre of mass of panohead/camera/lens shifts on top of the tripod.

Use one level, centre approximately for first shot and then ignore it.

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Re: Bushman Kalahari

by klausesser » Wed Jun 18, 2014 11:23 pm

mediavets wrote:Quite, you used one level - what I suggested was that it's futile hoping that multiple small bubble levels - say one on the tripod, one on the pano head and one attached to the hotshoe on the camera - will all appear centred simultaneously; that way madness lies.


Why do you think the TO uses THAT much levellers? I didn´t understand him this way at all. I understood he levells his tripod, put the head on it and expects the head being levelled also. An understandable expectation given his other head´s bubble shows being levelled or at least allows being levelled as one expects a bubble level should do. That´s how i would definitey expect how it needs to be.

mediavets wrote:Just standing your tripod on a carpet is probably going to result in the bubble level going away from centre as the pano head rotates anyway as the centre of mass of panohead/camera/lens shifts on top of the tripod.

Use one level, centre approximately for first shot and then ignore it.


You´re building constructions and speculations around a simple fact, Andrew.

I do not project the TO being that dumb mixing carpets and hard grounds or whatever when levelling his tripod and NOT taking
the differnces of the surfaces into account. Do you?

Please do not presume dealing with nuts just because somebody has a problem, will you. The problem might be real . . . =D :cool:

After all, Andrew: not a single one of your words explains Kolor´s missing reaction for 5 days now.
What do you think: what´s the reason?

best, Klaus

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Re: Bushman Kalahari

by mediavets » Wed Jun 18, 2014 11:27 pm

klausesser wrote:After all, Andrew: not a single one of your words explains Kolor´s missing reaction for 5 days now.
What do you think: what´s the reason?

best, Klaus


I don't work for Kolor, so I cannot speak for Kolor.

I don't know how the customer has up to now sought to communicate with Kolor.

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Re: Bushman Kalahari

by klausesser » Wed Jun 18, 2014 11:33 pm

mediavets wrote:I don't know how the customer has up to now sought to communicate with Kolor.


Just read what he wrote! :cool:

Klaus

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Re: Bushman Kalahari

by mediavets » Wed Jun 18, 2014 11:36 pm

klausesser wrote:
mediavets wrote:Quite, you used one level - what I suggested was that it's futile hoping that multiple small bubble levels - say one on the tripod, one on the pano head and one attached to the hotshoe on the camera - will all appear centred simultaneously; that way madness lies.

Why do you think the TO uses THAT much levellers? I didn´t understand him this way at all.

he mentioned a dual axis hotshoe bubble level in a previous post, as well as mentioning bubble levels on tripod and pano head.

I understood he levels his tripod, put the head on it and expects the head being leveled also. An understandable expectation given his other head´s bubble shows being leveled or at least allows being leveled as one expects a bubble level should do. That´s how i would definitely expect how it needs to be.

best, Klaus

Of course neither level may be accurate.

I wouldn't necessarily expect both to appear centred simultaneously, nor does it matter.

And I would not expect the level to remain precisely centred as I rotated the pano head - it doesn't on any of my various pano heads from reputable and popular makers. Some say it won't in their documentation.

Use one, centre approximately for the first shot and be done with it.

As you know it's easy to spot if a stitched pano is not quite level and very easy to level it in the APP/APG Panorama Editor.
Last edited by mediavets on Wed Jun 18, 2014 11:54 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: Bushman Kalahari

by mediavets » Wed Jun 18, 2014 11:41 pm

klausesser wrote:
mediavets wrote:I don't know how the customer has up to now sought to communicate with Kolor.


Just read what he wrote! :cool:

Klaus


He used email, he says.

To which email address?

Did he also use the Contact form for Pre-sales and Orders questions?:

http://www.kolor.com/contact.html

He didn't use the forum until today.

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Re: Bushman Kalahari

by mediavets » Thu Jun 19, 2014 12:11 am

thepcman wrote:Cannot believe he's saying that the level doesn't have to remain in the middle.
When I sate that is does not remain in the middle I mean, it runs way to one side, that is not supposed to happen.

Actually, the bubble is messed up because I place this
http://www.jobu-design.com/Dubble-Bubble-Level_p_58.html
On the Bushman when I know my tripod is level and it sits dead center and when I turn the Bushman, it remains center while the level on the Bushman is way in one corner. SO I am lead to think, the bushman does not give proper leveling results so when in a narrow shooting location, you will not get level stitching unless you use software correction. How is that productivity and why pay $300.00 extra on a pano head to get that result?

How do I not have a point if the level is there for the accuracy of the equipment and the level is not working properly.

I had packed it up waiting for a reply so I can ship it back but after this conversation I decided to whip it back out for another shot and now I see that the level is actually defective, what's the use of a level that does not level correctly?

mediavets seem to miss the part where I state that the tripod is leveled, I placed the old Panosarus on it, it levels, I placed the Bushman on it, it does not level, or at least the level on the bushman does not show level, please explain that.


Check out this video:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4RSgntU ... page#t=499

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Re: Bushman Kalahari

by thepcman » Thu Jun 19, 2014 1:09 am

I used this twice http://www.kolor.com/contact.html
and I also responded to the email used to send me my invoice the third time.

Let's put this to rest.
=============

1. The Bushman has a defective level in-spite of what camera, what lens or what shooting style I used.
2. It's three emails and and 5 days later with a 15 day limit to return or refund and I have not heard from Kolor even after this active forum.
3. If one of the feature on the Bushman was
It works great but the level is not accurate, would you have bought it for €249.17 plus shipping and handling plus a brokerage fee to get it in the USA?
4. As for your link to YouTube, I have watch more videos over and over again on this product more than you can imagine but thank you.
5. The project in the video is not for what I do, I doubt he is shooting to have a full 360 with floor and ceiling which bottom a top is mostly where you get your stitching errors.

How would you feel buying a product for $99.00 and it works great withing a few minute and is able to reach the seller withing hours every time you want to reach them.
Then you buy a similar supposedly better and nicer product for 4 times the price and it took you hours to try and get it to work properly (without success) and more then 5 days to hear from the seller (Without success).

Answer just what I asked above.

That's my final point
Thank you

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Re: Bushman Kalahari

by mediavets » Thu Jun 19, 2014 5:49 am

thepcman wrote:4. As for your link to YouTube, I have watch more videos over and over again on this product more than you can imagine but thank you.

The link to the video is to a particular section where the reviewer also finds that the Bushman bubble level goes off centre as he rotates the head....that seemed relevant. But an electronic level revealed that despite the bubble level it seems the head remained level as rotated.

5. The project in the video is not for what I do, I doubt he is shooting to have a full 360 with floor and ceiling which bottom a top is mostly where you get your stitching errors.

You still haven't told us what shooting pattern you use, nor whether this is the same shooting pattern you use with the Panosaurus, nor offered a sample 'problem' image set.

If the movement of the bubble in the level as you rotate the head is the sole cause of the stitching errors you experience then the head may indeed be faulty; others seem only to have good things to say about their Bushman heads.

How would you feel buying a product for $99.00 and it works great withing a few minute and is able to reach the seller within hours every time you want to reach them.
Then you buy a similar supposedly better and nicer product for 4 times the price and it took you hours to try and get it to work properly (without success) and more then 5 days to hear from the seller (Without success).

Answer just what I asked above.

I'd be happy in the first case and not very happy in the second case.

I hope Kolor will respond to your posts on the forum.

Did you also try contacting Bushman directly?:

http://bushman-panoramic.com/contact.php

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Re: Bushman Kalahari

by Destiny » Thu Jun 19, 2014 6:58 am

Most bubbles are not totally accurate.. However, yours seems to be way out...

If you remove your camera and just rotate the Bushman head, does the bubble remain centered.. If not, then you might have a dud.. Also, if you grab the end of the bottom rail and wobble it, is there any stack in it..

As Andrew says,... contact the manufacture.. If no response from them in two days, and none from Kolor, then send it back and buy a Nodal Ninja NN4.. Bill Bailey would never allow you to have this issue without fixing it.. He has world class support ++..

I suggest if you do send it back, don't until you have a reference number..

Destiny..

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Re: Bushman Kalahari

by thepcman » Thu Jun 19, 2014 8:01 am

Well it get's even better

Destiny - Thanks for your input.
1. It take forever for me to center it and no, it does not remain centered even with the camera off when I spin it.
2. It does not wobble if I tighten the know.
3. I cannot send it back because I have not had a ref# from anyone
4. I know I have a dud

I tried to send an email to techsuppor@bushman-panoramic.fr which is the email I get when I click on the tech support link on their contact page. The email bounces right back to me twice. I did send one to information@bushman-panoramic.fr so now I wait.

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Destiny
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Re: Bushman Kalahari

by Destiny » Thu Jun 19, 2014 8:11 am

Well, if the bubble moves way off centre with no camera mounted then its not good, sounds like a dud.... Did you try pressing it down in case it hasn't been set correctly... It only needs to be a small amount out of its mount for it to be way out of centre...

The thing is.. I would not worry about your 15 days grace since you have reported as an issue here.. You can make reference to this post.. Its not Kolor's fault you have a dud since they did not make it.. but they should really provide some comments or even suggest contacting Bushman... If nothing can be done your end, then it should just be a mater of returning it...

Its seems to me that the Kolor's own software has world class support but the Hardware shop is not so well supported..

Destiny...


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