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PostPosted: Thu Mar 13, 2014 8:57 am 
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Its seem Nikon has just launched its own mirrorless camera.. By all accounts they are supposed to be sharp.. I have never tested one so I wouldn't know.. This new Nikon might be a good camera, but in my eyes it sure is ugly.. The design to me looks like something my Granny used.. Its not cheap either.. You can buy the D90 with Fisheye for about the same or less...

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1 ... Nikon-1-V3

Samsung seems to have a better idea of design, keeping it looking more like a modern DSLR....
http://pdnpulse.pdnonline.com/2014/01/c ... era-2.html

So, is it a case that mirrorless cameras will take over the market or are mirrors here to stay...

Destiny...


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 13, 2014 9:11 am 
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Don't see why they should be any worse than SLRs.

The main advantage of the traditional SLR was that you could see what you were shooting, no matter what combination of lens/ zoom you were using.

Now that the image from the sensor is available electronically, it can be displayed either in the viewfinder or a separate screen so you get the same benefits without the need for an expensive mirror setup.

I bought a Fuji S9500 because it had just such an arrangement and can see no clear benefit from having a mirror at all.

Manual focusing is probably easier with a ground glass screen but modern LCD screens are getting better all the time and modern autofocus is all that is required for most purposes.

I am surprised that Nikon, Canon, etc took so long to bin the mirror.


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 31, 2014 12:10 am 
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I own several mirrorless cams and find them to be superior to DSLR for panos. I own a Sony NEX-7 and Fuji X-E2. Benefits of these cameras are:

- same / similar APS-C sensors that are in most crop DSLR's
- live view screens are better than most DLSR's with good refresh rate. The sony is tiltable which is useful
- both have electronic view finders that allow focus and composition easily on bright days with DoF preview and exposure preview always on
- focusing aids help make manual focus easier

There are some annoyances with limited bracketing options and some compromises in terms of auto focus performance for general usge but I've ditched DSLR altogether as I find the benefits outweigh the negatives.

My Sony can use any of my canon lenses with the metabones adapter and my fuji I have a few excellent Fuji lenses with awesome optical performance.

Now you can get a Sony A7R and have same / slightly better image quality to a D800E with canon lenses. Mirrorless are the way of the future.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/9253227@N ... 054975523/


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 31, 2014 12:33 am 
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Hi... Thats really interesting.. Thank you for this information..

Love those photos very much. Are they yours..

Destiny...


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 31, 2014 9:17 am 
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Nikon 1 and Canon EOS M are deliberately made inferior to their DSLR's, for not to kill their cashcows.
Don't expect them to come up with really good mirrorless cameras anytime soon.

Luckily there are others that do. Sony, Fuji, Panasonic, Olympus etc.
Sony Alpha 7R is a gamechanger. Fullframe mirrorless, 36mpixel, head to head with Nikon 800E.
The mirror seems more and more like a relic from the analog period.

leifs


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 31, 2014 4:20 pm 
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leifs wrote:
The mirror seems more and more like a relic from the analog period.


The problem (in my eyes): the viewfinder. I like rangefinder cameras - owned a Leica M3 for quite a time and loved it and still have two Fuji 6x9cm RF cameras which are simply GREAT! :cool:

The only advanage i see in the mirrorless constructions: you have more choice on lenses. You can use extremely fine
Leica-M lenses, Zeiss RF lenses or others of very high quality . . from which some are much better than usual DSLR lenses -
but also come for a price and provide no automatics of course. All compensations must be done manually.

But that´s how real photography is btw. . . =D :cool:

I can´t see any other advantage. Ok - weight and noise maybe . . .

I never would like to miss an optical viewfinder with a good screen. Those electrical viewfinders in the mirrorless cameras -
i didn´t see a real good one. I know real good electronic viewfinders from RED´s and Arri´s top cameras - but their viewfinders
cost more than the mirrorless camera WITH the lens . . :cool:

Which makes sense in my eyes is a viewerless body for UltraWide lenses with an attached optical viewfinder on top.
With ultrawides you don´t need to focus.

BUT: non-retrofocus UlraWideAngles with back-lenses very close to the sensor most likely produce heavy fringing because of
strongly diagonal rays coming from the lens so close to the sensor.

I realized that very intensely when i used a Hasselblad SWC (Zeiss Biogon 38mm, non-retro) and a Phase One digital back:
excellent lens (definitely one of the world´s best UltraWides), excellent back (no question), together about 20000.-€.

The results were far away from what i expected.

Because of the fringing is non-linear it´s hard to compensate without losses.

So: whether mirrorless cameras will or will not take over the universe - who cares?
When you are good - you can use *any* device for making good pictures. =D

Klaus


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 31, 2014 4:37 pm 
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klausesser wrote:
So: whether mirrorless cameras will or will not take over the universe - who cares?
When you are good - you can use *any* device for making good pictures. =D

Klaus


I agree. And for the time beeing I am enjoying the small size and weight of a mirrorless camera with a handful of beautiful and small primes :-)

In my opinion the last generation EVF's (Sony, Fuji, Olympus etc) are as good as any DSLR viewfinder. I have seen some since I got my first SLR 40 years ago.

leifs


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 01, 2014 11:44 am 
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I literally can't stand to use an optical view finder anymore. The Fuji X-E2 EVF is very good, the new fuji X-T1 is even better. In 2 generations time, the EVF I think should exceed even the most diehard OVF fans expectations (whether they admit it or not is another issue haha).

Also Klaus, with regards to lens design, there are issues as you say with short flange distance lens design, but if you use a mirrorless cam with lens adapter and have the same lens registration distance as the lens mounted natively on a native mount body, there will be no more sever issues. Each to their own, I would never try and dictate my position as being correct and your skills are widely respected. I think when the next generation mirrorless bodies arrive, maybe Sony A7R MK II, you should reconsider!

Regards Ian


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 01, 2014 1:49 pm 
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beetwo77 wrote:
In 2 generations time, the EVF I think should exceed even the most diehard OVF fans expectations (whether they admit it or not is another issue haha).


Yes. I agree.

beetwo77 wrote:
Also Klaus, with regards to lens design, there are issues as you say with short flange distance lens design, but if you use a mirrorless cam with lens adapter and have the same lens registration distance as the lens mounted natively on a native mount body, there will be no more sever issues. Each to their own, I would never try and dictate my position as being correct and your skills are widely respected. I think when the next generation mirrorless bodies arrive, maybe Sony A7R MK II, you should reconsider!


Right. I also read the signs on the ;) :cool: walls . .

But i don´t have any problem with using DSLRs. Neither regarding weight nor size. Ii guess it will take quite some time until the mirrorless systems have achieved such wide integration in every technical and usability-aspects which makes them *really* comparable to DSLRs.

If i would start today shooting panoramas i would consider to go for the 36MPx mirrorless Sony. But changing from what i have already just for getting a lighter and smaller camera? No. Definitely not.

I like heavy and sturdy stuff. It doesn´t shake so easily . . . . =D

Klaus


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