Hope this is not GoPros future 360 video rig...  

In the panorama field, hardware is also part of the success. You can discuss here about it: camera, computer, pano head, anything
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Hope this is not GoPros future 360 video rig...

by gkaefer » Sat May 30, 2015 8:07 am

http://makezine.com/2015/05/28/google-s ... amera-rig/

who will use such a device?
who will afford it?
does it make sense touse such many gopros in portraitmode to create a non spherical(?) 360 Video?
example drift Video: positive the seamless stitching of the smoke, but still Problems with blue skys? So was it stitched with autopano, because this Problem was well known here ;-)

Georg

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Re: Hope this is not GoPros future 360 video rig...

by Destiny » Sat May 30, 2015 8:45 am

I have been chatting to others all over the world about this unit since Thursday..

16 X $730 = $11680 with no Zenith or Nadir.. Only high end use. Might be good for concerts but then you have Copyright issues.. People will have to buy the 360 Video to view it...

I too really hope that this is not what GoPro thinks is the future of 360 video.. To me its just a huge gimmick.. a very very expensive gimmick.. Just another improvised solution and a very clumpy one at that.. Might as well go with the LadyBug at 6k$.. with Zenith and Nadir but thats not the perfect solution either.. With 16 cameras will need on top of that price 16 memory cards.. How time consuming to download all those cards.. Also, you would run the risk of one or more cameras failing and that would blow the entire production.. Too high a risk..

I have a few friends from around the world chatting about the GoPro 360 rigs who bought them going into it with huge enthusiasm and hope that they could make a go at 360 video production. They all say its tuned out to be a big mistake.. There are just too many issues from cost, quality of video and time in post-production.. No one wants to pay the money for the media that is needed for the time involved to capture the video with poor results.

I really believe that the 360 video is a real media of the future. But not as it is at the moment.. For the media to take off in any real way, it needs to be easy to use and able to post up for use as social media, good quality, and affordable. At the moment most options fail in this.. The new Giro360 is dipping into this area but still too expensive and poor quality. But it wins with ease of use.. Going by the money they raised is proof that there is a real demand for this kind of hardware... I too would love a good solution but no way at the moment..

Now that Kolor have merged with GoPro, they seemed to have dropped the iStar and Ricoh Theta M15 from their Store... I guess that is due to the fact we will never see any other 360 camera option on the Kolor Shop other than a GoPro.. I am also guessing therefore that the only support for 360 video will only be for the GoPro.. :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

Destiny..

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Re: Hope this is not GoPros future 360 video rig...

by klausesser » Sun May 31, 2015 4:30 pm

gkaefer wrote:does it make sense touse such many gopros in portraitmode to create a non spherical(?) 360 Video?


Of course it makes sense. You get high quality - which NEVER is cheap to achieve. ;) :cool:
360° in ONE row does need neither a Nadir nor a Zenith - nobody cares for them in a 360° video.

Definitely such devices are NOT aimed at hobbyists . . =D

Klaus

PS:

Image qualit acualy is the biggest issue in the field of pruducing 360° video.
6 camera are not sufficient. This rig is very well appropriate as far as i can see in the demo.

So ONE big step foreward! One more advantage: when better cameras occure - and they will - it´s
easy to swap them in the rig.

Being modular is THE way to go! In terms of commercial producing the price-tag is surprisingly
low with this rig.
Last edited by klausesser on Sun May 31, 2015 4:48 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Hope this is not GoPros future 360 video rig...

by mediavets » Sun May 31, 2015 4:43 pm

klausesser wrote:
gkaefer wrote:does it make sense touse such many gopros in portraitmode to create a non spherical(?) 360 Video?


Of course it makes sense. You get high quality - which NEVER is cheap to achieve. ;) :cool:
360° in ONE row does need neither a Nadir nor a Zenith - nobody cares for them in a 360° video.

Definitely such devices are NOT aimed at hobbyists . . =D

Klaus

Apparently Google plans a lower cost 6-camera rig later on.

Even then I find it hard to envisage 360 video becoming a mass market phenomenon - in terms of creation - in the near future.

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Re: Hope this is not GoPros future 360 video rig...

by klausesser » Sun May 31, 2015 5:06 pm

mediavets wrote:Apparently Google plans a lower cost 6-camera rig later on.


I´m definitely NOT impressed . . =D :cool:

mediavets wrote:Even then I find it hard to envisage 360 video becoming a mass market phenomenon - in terms of creation - in the near future.


Depends on how you define the "near future". Surely it will not be tomorrow or next week . .

But folks are lining up already! As soon as devices like Okulus, Cardboards or others spread widely and diplays become 3D without glasses the market for 360 video will explode- and the market for 360-stereo will take a big leap forward.

That´s what i hear in meetings as well as by discussing with other producers ans clients. Remember the beginning of interactive panoramas? Around 1998 ? =D =D

When i produced my first interactive 360x180° panoramas in 1998 using QuicktimeVR-Studio and providing around 250kb files to the clients . . . their IT-people became hysteric . . . =D "WHAT? Are you crazy?? 250kb? Via the web?? Impossible - NOBODY is interested, all networks will collapse!!" . . . =D :cool: And so on.

Well - where are we now? Correct: gigapixels are flooding the web and are transported in seconds as smoothly-fluent interactive content.

The same way 360 video and 360 stereo will go.

Klaus

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Re: Hope this is not GoPros future 360 video rig...

by mediavets » Sun May 31, 2015 5:20 pm

klausesser wrote:
mediavets wrote:Even then I find it hard to envisage 360 video becoming a mass market phenomenon - in terms of creation - in the near future.


Depends on how you define the "near future". Surely it will not be tomorrow or next week . .

But folks are lining up already! As soon as devices like Okulus, Cardboards or others spread widely and diplays become 3D without glasses the market for 360 video will explode- and the market for 360-stereo will take a big leap forward.

That´s what i hear in meetings as well as by discussing with other producers ans clients. Remember the beginning of interactive panoramas? Around 1998 ? =D =D

When i produced my first interactive 360x180° panoramas in 1998 using QuicktimeVR-Studio and providing around 250kb files to the clients . . . their IT-people became hysteric . . . =D "WHAT? Are you crazy?? 250kb? Via the web?? Impossible - NOBODY is interested, all networks will collapse!!" . . . =D :cool: And so on.

Well - where are we now? Correct: gigapixels are flooding the web and are transported in seconds as smoothly-fluent interactive content.

The same way 360 video and 360 stereo will go.

Klaus

I wrote that I don't see it becoming a mass market phenomenon from a creation point of view.

Social media took off by having many creators of self generated (generally low quality) content.

What you are suggesting is a return to a broadcast model for 360 video where a few skilled professionals create high quality content at high cost and the masses merely view it.

That may appeal to advertisers but I can't see it replacing the user created video clips, selfies and other images and short textual content created on mobile phones that dominate social media today.

360x180 interactive panoramas and virtual tours have not become a mass market phenomenon from a creation point of view on social media either; nor even simple single row panos which it's quite easy to create on many smartphones.

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Re: Hope this is not GoPros future 360 video rig...

by klausesser » Sun May 31, 2015 6:08 pm

mediavets wrote:Even then I find it hard to envisage 360 video becoming a mass market phenomenon - in terms of creation - in the near future.


Depends on how you define the "near future". Surely it will not be tomorrow or next week . .

But folks are lining up already! As soon as devices like Okulus, Cardboards or others spread widely and diplays become 3D without glasses the market for 360 video will explode- and the market for 360-stereo will take a big leap forward.

That´s what i hear in meetings as well as by discussing with other producers ans clients. Remember the beginning of interactive panoramas? Around 1998 ? =D =D

When i produced my first interactive 360x180° panoramas in 1998 using QuicktimeVR-Studio and providing around 250kb files to the clients . . . their IT-people became hysteric . . . =D "WHAT? Are you crazy?? 250kb? Via the web?? Impossible - NOBODY is interested, all networks will collapse!!" . . . =D :cool: And so on.

Well - where are we now? Correct: gigapixels are flooding the web and are transported in seconds as smoothly-fluent interactive content.

The same way 360 video and 360 stereo will go.

mediavets wrote:I wrote that I don't see it becoming a mass market phenomenon from a creation point of view.


That´s quite obvious, Andrew. But most gadgets we use started on a rather expensive base prior to become
more public.
I very well remember the first DSLRs - 6MPx, costing about 50.000.-DM in 1996.

Today 18 - 36Mpx are mass-market!

mediavets wrote:Social media took off by having many creators of self generated (generally low quality) content.


Yes - and? What does it tell us? It tells that on the base of facebook and so it´s nice-to-have, but of mediocre quality. Necessarily.

As i said before (twice): this kind of rigs are not designed for hobby-users. That´s VERY obvious.

mediavets wrote:What you are suggesting is a return to a broadcast model for 360 video where a few skilled professionals create high quality content at high cost and the masses merely view it.


Correct. This way it will be for a time. And in parallel there will be manufacturers working on solutions which are much more affordable also for hobbyists - that´s exactly the way it was with DSLR-cameras - resp. ALL digital devices. I remember Steadycam - the original Steadicam (tm) was not even sold. You only could rent it - for horrendable costs per day. They held patents on it. Today a professional Steadycam still costs around 30.000.-€
But the demand for such devices led to the developement of stabilizers using brushless motors on 3 - 4 axis.
These gadgets cost around 1000 - 5000.-€ - and do a better job (with lightweight cameras like DSLRs) than the original Steadycam ever was able to do!

WITHOUT the upcoming of the extremely expensive original Steadicam (tm) this most likely wouldn´t have happen!

You see: FIRST there needs to be a demand for for a device. This demand can only get fullfilled by excellent examples of what is achivable with such devices.

When professionals produce high-quality content people develop a demand to also achieve these excellent results.

You CANNOT expect excellent results from cheap devices!! You CANOT argue that you want a rig which costs
500.-$ needs to achieve a quality which a rig of 10 times the price provides.

mediavets wrote:That may appeal to advertisers but I can't see it replacing the user created video clips, selfies and other images and short textual content created on mobile phones that dominate social media today.


THAT is NOT what gadgets like this rig are aimed to.

mediavets wrote:360x180 interactive panoramas and virtual tours have not become a mass market phenomenon from a creation point of view on social media either; nor even simple single row panos which it's quite easy to create on many smartphones.
[/quote][/quote]

Show me the smartphome which can do 360° video in EXCELLENT quality! Show me the averagely priced camera which can shoot 360° in EXCELLENT quality with ONE shot!

Please show me!! ;)

You see: it´s not ALLONE the "mass-market" which exists in the world.

Almost ALL gadgets of very good quality the most of us use emerged from the HighEnd market - they were NOT developed with ONLY having the mass-market in sight.

Klaus

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Re: Hope this is not GoPros future 360 video rig...

by mediavets » Sun May 31, 2015 7:13 pm

I never suggested that it was possible to produce excellent quality 360 video on smartphone.

What I was trying to suggest is that the broadcast model - TV, movies and so on - I'd rapidly losing ground to relatively low quality self generated content distributed (shared via) social media.

Just as smart phone cameras have cannibalised the conventional camera market, and along with simple so called action cameras have cannibalised the conventional camcorder market.

Media 'consumption' is also increasingly realised via smart phones and tablets too so 360 video of any sort will only attract a mass market audience if it can be delivered effectively on/to such platforms.

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Re: Hope this is not GoPros future 360 video rig...

by captain3d » Wed Jun 03, 2015 10:59 pm

But the whole point of the Google Jump system is that its software assembler does all the hard work of image reconstruction so nobody has to do the stitching. It also handles stereoscopic 360. So as long as you have the camera arrangement you don't need any stitching skills or software for post.

If this is true then it is a pretty amazing development for 3D 360 video.

phil

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Re: Hope this is not GoPros future 360 video rig...

by mediavets » Wed Jun 03, 2015 11:22 pm

But unless you have SDSL and few do, and even then how long will it take to upload videos from 16 GoPros?!

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Re: Hope this is not GoPros future 360 video rig...

by captain3d » Thu Jun 04, 2015 9:56 pm

Good point 16 cams x 10 mins of protunes 2k 60fps would be about 60GB. But that is just $$$ you still don't need any stitch skills which is significant for anyone with a $10k camera budget.

phil

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Re: Hope this is not GoPros future 360 video rig...

by Destiny » Sun Jun 07, 2015 6:31 am

jaunt-vr.jpg
GoPro were not the first to come up with a multi row camera lens option.. Jaunt have have one for a while.. Not sure where any of these are going...

Destiny..
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Re: Hope this is not GoPros future 360 video rig...

by captain3d » Tue Jun 09, 2015 7:37 pm

Gopro is not the designer in this case. The 16 cam spec is coming from Google

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Re: Hope this is not GoPros future 360 video rig...

by Destiny » Sat Jun 20, 2015 2:03 am

Jaunt seem to be the main Pro Hardware provider in the area of 360 video.. But... todate I have not seen end results.. Their website is very illusive.. Most features about them are via news stories.. If I was a Pro 360 Video Producer, I know which option I would heading in.....

Destiny...
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Re: Hope this is not GoPros future 360 video rig...

by klausesser » Sat Jun 20, 2015 11:07 am

Destiny wrote:
jaunt-vr.jpg
GoPro were not the first to come up with a multi row camera lens option.. Jaunt have have one for a while.. Not sure where any of these are going...

Destiny..


The big one seems a bit weird to me . .

The small screenshots shows an array of GoPros under the hood.

Klaus

The evolution of this kind of cameras like the GoPro is very fast. So building a completely felxible solution
with interchangable cameras in my eys is the most clever way to deal with it.
Of course you can take the ingredients of such cameras and build your own box, cube, sphere or whatever . .

But what when a year later better lenses/chips come out? Will you be able to upgrade your assemblage?

These times those rigs NEED to works with interchangable lens-/chip-units. And the most intelligent
way to realize it to me seems the kind of rig like Freedom 360 and 360 Heros.

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Re: Hope this is not GoPros future 360 video rig...

by mediavets » Sat Jun 20, 2015 12:08 pm

klausesser wrote:The evolution of this kind of cameras like the GoPro is very fast. So building a completely felxible solution
with interchangable cameras in my eys is the most clever way to deal with it.
Of course you can take the ingredients of such cameras and build your own box, cube, sphere or whatever . .

But what when a year later better lenses/chips come out? Will you be able to upgrade your assemblage?

These times those rigs NEED to works with interchangable lens-/chip-units. And the most intelligent
way to realize it to me seems the kind of rig like Freedom 360 and 360 Heros.

The longevity of the rigs - which are not cheap - also depends on the retention of form factor in new models of GoPro camera, and that may be unrealistic.

Perhaps one just has to accept that at this stage in the evolution of 360 video rapid obsolescence is something one has to assume when deciding whether or not to get involved.

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Re: Hope this is not GoPros future 360 video rig...

by klausesser » Sat Jun 20, 2015 12:51 pm

mediavets wrote:
klausesser wrote:The evolution of this kind of cameras like the GoPro is very fast. So building a completely felxible solution
with interchangable cameras in my eys is the most clever way to deal with it.
Of course you can take the ingredients of such cameras and build your own box, cube, sphere or whatever . .

But what when a year later better lenses/chips come out? Will you be able to upgrade your assemblage?

These times those rigs NEED to works with interchangable lens-/chip-units. And the most intelligent
way to realize it to me seems the kind of rig like Freedom 360 and 360 Heros.

The longevity of the rigs - which are not cheap - also depends on the retention of form factor in new models of GoPro camera, and that may be unrealistic.

Perhaps one just has to accept that at this stage in the evolution of 360 video rapid obsolescence is something one has to assume when deciding whether or not to get involved.


How many times until now GoPro completely changed the form-factor of it´s cameras?

Klaus

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Re: Hope this is not GoPros future 360 video rig...

by klausesser » Sat Jun 20, 2015 1:03 pm

mediavets wrote:Perhaps one just has to accept that at this stage in the evolution of 360 video rapid obsolescence is something one has to assume when deciding whether or not to get involved.


Andrew - true words spoken. But what´s the alternative? Doing nothing but wait for "the final thing"?

No - that´s not an alternative. You´ll NEVER get ANYTHING done with this in mind - there NEVER will be ANY
"final thing" . . thanks heaven! =D :cool:

So - IF you need to keep up track commercially producing interactive content at all you need to decide on which way to go. NOW.
If you do NOT need to keep up track producing . . . all this considerations are completely redundant!

It´s not about "what might happen when . . " - it´s about "what do i need to deal with - NOW".

Klaus

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Re: Hope this is not GoPros future 360 video rig...

by mediavets » Sat Jun 20, 2015 1:13 pm

klausesser wrote:How many times until now GoPro completely changed the form-factor of it´s cameras?

Klaus


My understanding - although I haven't exhaustively researched this issue - is that not all the Freedom 360 and 360 Heros rigs support all models of GoPro camera; some only support certain GoPro models I think?

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Re: Hope this is not GoPros future 360 video rig...

by klausesser » Sat Jun 20, 2015 1:40 pm

mediavets wrote:
klausesser wrote:How many times until now GoPro completely changed the form-factor of it´s cameras?

Klaus


My understanding - although I haven't exhaustively researched this issue - is that not all the Freedom 360 and 360 Heros rigs support all models of GoPro camera; some only support certain GoPro models I think?


Yes. That´s why they provide suggestions for the rigs regarding a certain type of camera. You cannot use ALL models in the rigs.

Which means: if you keep up buying the "right" type of GoPro you´ll most likely will be able to use the upcoming model of the camera in the same rig.

It´s obvious that "evolutionary" issues may happen - but that´s with each and every device we use. Think about accus, grips, filters or sunshades or whatever. New camera: different accus, new battery-grip,different cards or whatever.
Or think about SCSI . . i have a very fine and once very expensive scanner - it´s SCSI . . and i can´t use it on my machines actually, though it´s still a very fine device . . :/

Klaus

Regarding "the real thing" you might be pleased to see this one: http://www.informedsauce.com/huccio-bui ... t-vr-porn/

=D :cool:

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Re: Hope this is not GoPros future 360 video rig...

by mediavets » Sat Jun 20, 2015 2:22 pm

Off topic - could you not use your SCSI scanner with a low cost second hand windows PC?

Andrew


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