Best technique for small spaces with a 5DMKiii  

In the panorama field, hardware is also part of the success. You can discuss here about it: camera, computer, pano head, anything
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mediavets
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by mediavets » Thu Apr 04, 2013 11:49 am

oreo5000 wrote:Would you guys reccomend PTgui over APG?

On a Kolor forum...I don't think so! :rolleyes:

You'd probably get a differnt answer if you asked the same question on the Panoguide forum where most members are PTGui users.

The difference between the two has been characterised as follows.

Autopano Pro and Giga are panorama stitching programs for photographers; PTGui is a panorama stitching program for engineers.

So choose whatever floats your boat...
Andrew Stephens
Many different Nodal Ninja and Agnos pano heads. Merlin/Panogear mount with Papywizard on Nokia Internet tablets.
Nikon D5100 and D40, Sigma 8mm f3.5 FE, Nikon 10.5mm FE, 35mm, 50mm, 18-55mm, 70-210mm. Promote control.

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by oreo5000 » Thu Apr 04, 2013 11:58 am

Ok, thanks I'm with you.
In APG do I simply throw all images in at once or should I be manually adding the zenith?
Is it better to feed APG the untouched RAW files over processed Tiffs/Jpegs?
Thanks

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by aaronpriest » Thu Apr 04, 2013 12:05 pm

mediavets wrote:Autopano Pro and Giga are panorama stitching programs for photographers; PTGui is a panorama stitching program for engineers.

LOL! I'd have to agree I guess, I'm far more engineering minded. Hehe!

PTGui gives me better results with full spheres and ultrawide lenses (non-fisheye, full frame). AGP gives me better results with high resolution gigapans and color consistency. I use them both for different panoramas.

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by klausesser » Thu Apr 04, 2013 12:13 pm

mediavets wrote:Autopano Pro and Giga are panorama stitching programs for photographers; PTGui is a panorama stitching program for engineers.

I stated this about 6 years ago. But PTGui has changed a lot and meanwhile is as intuitive as AP.
But it`s more transparent in use and it´s definitely better documented . . . :cool:
Nevertheless i still prefer APG.

When you do commercial work i mean you need both apps.

I would compare it with PC and MacIntosh: i´m used to use Macs for almost 30 years now and i prefer them still.
But i added a PC beacause there are some few aspects in my way of working which a PC is preferable for me.

So i use BOTH "worlds" in parallel.

best, Klaus
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by klausesser » Thu Apr 04, 2013 12:15 pm

oreo5000 wrote:In APG do I simply throw all images in at once or should I be manually adding the zenith?

No. The Zenith is in the sphere. What you must shoot and add or retouch it seperately is the Nadir.

best, Klaus
Simplicity is the keynote of all true elegance. Coco Chanel

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by oreo5000 » Thu Apr 04, 2013 12:31 pm

Sorry Klaus I'm not sure I follow.

Correct me if I'm wrong but the Nadir is the below, i.e. the floor, and the zentith is above, i.e. the ceiling.

I'm shooting 6 vertical frames with the camera looking down 12 deg. and a seperate frame for the Zenith.

So I end up with 7 files

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by klausesser » Thu Apr 04, 2013 12:45 pm

oreo5000 wrote:Sorry Klaus I'm not sure I follow.

Correct me if I'm wrong but the Nadir is the below, i.e. the floor, and the zentith is above, i.e. the ceiling.

I'm shooting 6 vertical frames with the camera looking down 12 deg. and a seperate frame for the Zenith.

So I end up with 7 files

Right!

best, Klaus

PS: i don´t call the Zenith-shot an "extra" shot because it´s done the one shooting with the other 6.
Whereas the Nadir is an "extra" shot because you must reorganize the head/camera in an extra way.

So i see it as an "extra" shot compared to the Zenith, where you just tilt the camera on the head
without any re-adjusting the whole setup.
Last edited by klausesser on Thu Apr 04, 2013 12:50 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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by oreo5000 » Thu Apr 04, 2013 12:50 pm

So my question was.. ;)
Do I simply drop all 7 files into APG at once?

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by klausesser » Thu Apr 04, 2013 12:55 pm

oreo5000 wrote:So my question was.. ;)
Do I simply drop all 7 files into APG at once?

As i said: yes!

:cool:

best, Klaus

as an example - i used 6+Z wà­th a 5D2 and 2,8/15mm fisheye here: http://360impressions.de/Wohnung/

Nadir wasn´t shot extra but was retouched. No client cares about an absolutely perfect or not Nadir as long as it is not too obviously recognizable as an error.
Only pixelpeeper like to do that - but they´re not clients . . :cool:
Last edited by klausesser on Thu Apr 04, 2013 1:01 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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by oreo5000 » Thu Apr 04, 2013 2:06 pm

Thanks Klaus,
That looks great, can't spot any problems there. I still seem to be getting a bit of a vertical break even though I have the nodal point pretty much spot on. Any ideas what I can try to resolve this?

Another strange thing is that when I stitch the images with APG and then place the outputted file into Pano2VR the resulting 360 looks a little warped and I cannot look up or down. If I stitch it with PTgui and drop that outputted file into Pano2VR then I dont have any issues and I can look up and down and the only problem I see is small Nadir hole.
Any ideas?

Thanks again, really appreciate everyones quick responses

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by klausesser » Thu Apr 04, 2013 2:35 pm

oreo5000 wrote:Any ideas what I can try to resolve this?

Yes: "try harder" . . ;):cool:

best, Klaus
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by HansKeesom » Thu Apr 04, 2013 5:26 pm

oreo5000 wrote:Thanks, I'll stick with that then.

Would you guys reccomend PTgui over APG?

Depends. I think PTGUI sometimes wins when it comes to mage-quality, but when you have to process multiple panoramas (like 5-10) APG really shines. Also easy of use right out of the box I like APG much more. I have a license for both programms but somehow APG makes it easier for me to keep track of what is happening.
Regards, Hans Keesom
I stitch and render for other photographers. Price: 25 euro or less, no cure no pay. If you want to concentrate on your business let me do the stitching for you. Free TB of Dropbox space when you have more then 250 euro business a year.

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by HansKeesom » Thu Apr 04, 2013 5:27 pm

oreo5000 wrote:Thanks Klaus,
That looks great, can't spot any problems there. I still seem to be getting a bit of a vertical break even though I have the nodal point pretty much spot on. Any ideas what I can try to resolve this?

Another strange thing is that when I stitch the images with APG and then place the outputted file into Pano2VR the resulting 360 looks a little warped and I cannot look up or down. If I stitch it with PTgui and drop that outputted file into Pano2VR then I dont have any issues and I can look up and down and the only problem I see is small Nadir hole.
Any ideas?

Thanks again, really appreciate everyones quick responses

Allow me to stitch them and I will tell you what I find.
Regards, Hans Keesom
I stitch and render for other photographers. Price: 25 euro or less, no cure no pay. If you want to concentrate on your business let me do the stitching for you. Free TB of Dropbox space when you have more then 250 euro business a year.

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by HansKeesom » Thu Apr 04, 2013 5:35 pm

oreo5000 wrote:Just noticed also that -12 deg results in part of my NN5 arm being visible in the lower right of the frame. Will this cause a problem at all?

No as it will be projected to a part of the resulting panorama where other parts of other photos will also projected on. In a kind of democratic process it is then concluded that the black part is only visible on one photo therefore can be removed. And if this is not done automaticly you can mark the black part with a red marker. If then still it won't go it means there was not alternative imageinformation for that part
Regards, Hans Keesom
I stitch and render for other photographers. Price: 25 euro or less, no cure no pay. If you want to concentrate on your business let me do the stitching for you. Free TB of Dropbox space when you have more then 250 euro business a year.

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by oreo5000 » Thu Apr 04, 2013 5:38 pm

Thanks, doesnt seem to be an issue so I dont think I'll need to mask

Do you guys know what these pano's were created with? or is it something custom
http://www.eyerevolution.co.uk/?gclid=CIGP56SusbYCFYfJtAod8kgAPA

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by klausesser » Thu Apr 04, 2013 7:24 pm

oreo5000 wrote:Thanks, doesnt seem to be an issue so I dont think I'll need to mask

Do you guys know what these pano's were created with? or is it something custom
http://www.eyerevolution.co.uk/?gclid=CIGP56SusbYCFYfJtAod8kgAPA

KRPano.

best, Klaus
Simplicity is the keynote of all true elegance. Coco Chanel

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by oreo5000 » Fri Apr 05, 2013 9:52 am


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by klausesser » Fri Apr 05, 2013 11:39 am

oreo5000 wrote:Cheers Klaus,
And this one? KRPano also? http://www.eyerevolution.co.uk/virtual_tours/car-360-panorama/

I don´t think so.

best, Klaus
Simplicity is the keynote of all true elegance. Coco Chanel

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by HansKeesom » Sat Apr 06, 2013 7:27 pm

HansKeesom wrote:....... I will do a test coming weekend with a shooting pattern that is an extension of what we use for fisheye lenses. Theory is that by extending the method we use for fisheye lenses, it will deliver good results also for 35, 50 and maybe even 85 mm for a sphere. The weekend begins coming friday!
.....

Test done with a 50 mm lens on a canon 40 D (1.5 factor! Should be easer with a 5D). Had to take 242 photos for full 360 * 180. Detection went very, very easy . Editing in APG to get rid of tripod took about 5-10 minutes using markers. Very nice nadir as result without photoshopping. I will try to do 85 MM tests ASAP and show results here. Hope to do it final test in small room with texture/graphics on the floor to prove nadir is really working. So far looking good.
Regards, Hans Keesom
I stitch and render for other photographers. Price: 25 euro or less, no cure no pay. If you want to concentrate on your business let me do the stitching for you. Free TB of Dropbox space when you have more then 250 euro business a year.

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by klausesser » Sat Apr 06, 2013 8:15 pm

HansKeesom wrote:Editing in APG to get rid of tripod took about 5-10 minutes using markers.

How long does it take to do the additional Nadir-shoot? 5min i guess. So we have about 10-15min.
Doesn´t take longer with retouching.

What when you need to shoot a second, identical sphere? What when you need to use a motorized head?
What about the xml then?

best, Klaus

PS: btw. - would you mind showing the result?
Last edited by klausesser on Sat Apr 06, 2013 8:16 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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by HansKeesom » Sat Apr 06, 2013 9:09 pm

klausesser wrote:
HansKeesom wrote:Editing in APG to get rid of tripod took about 5-10 minutes using markers.

How long does it take to do the additional Nadir-shoot? 5min i guess. So we have about 10-15min.
Doesn´t take longer with retouching.

What when you need to shoot a second, identical sphere? What when you need to use a motorized head?
What about the xml then?

best, Klaus

PS: btw. - would you mind showing the result?

When there is a pattern on the floor like a logo, can you do that with retouching? Seem to me you copy something into the nadir that is not exactly what was actually there.

a second identical sphere? why, how what?
xml? Why? I have my pattern written down on paper and APG had no problem detecting it, even though there was a white wall.

Making the nadir shots took 3 minutes. So total work problably closer to 10 minutes.

You don't NEED to use a motorised head! You CHOOSE to use a motorised head or not. If I would, I would go for the moonslide, which is the only motorized head I know that can make nadir shots http://www.marc-kairies.de/english/mk-panomachine-moonslide/index.html examples have perfect nadir.

Test was done indoors in a rather messy living room. Rather not show that. As I said, I want to do a test in a more convincing situation. hope to show that, though I am not sure if anyone will be convinced by that either.
At the same time, I don't think I can nor care about convincing people. When it works for me and the people I work with, that is good enough
Last edited by HansKeesom on Sat Apr 06, 2013 10:09 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Regards, Hans Keesom
I stitch and render for other photographers. Price: 25 euro or less, no cure no pay. If you want to concentrate on your business let me do the stitching for you. Free TB of Dropbox space when you have more then 250 euro business a year.

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by aaronpriest » Sat Apr 06, 2013 10:46 pm

This weekend I'm stitching a virtual tour of a house that I shot yesterday for a prominent home builder. I shot my nadirs slightly off-axis with the Panoneed manually after moving the tripod. I'm stitching with PTGui Pro and using its viewpoint correction feature to mask in the nadir. I tried cloning in Photoshop but with these precise floor patterns, color variations, and glare from various light sources, it just was not possible. I load in all the files from the .xml and apply it to get my regular sphere, set a few vertical line control points to make sure things are precisely level, and then load the nadir shots and set a few manual control points to align it, then mask out the tripod areas. Works very quickly and efficiently. I'm not sure how to do the same with APG, but I look forward to any tutorials. I've used PTGui for a very long time and I'm used to its many quirks, I can't say the same with APG yet.

Here's a good tutorial on PTGui Pro's viewpoint correction: http://www.johnhpanos.com/ptgvpt.htm

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by HansKeesom » Sat Apr 06, 2013 11:08 pm

Hi Aaron,

You are welcome to send me the photos of one panorama so I can see what I can make of it and what tips I have for you.
Regards, Hans Keesom
I stitch and render for other photographers. Price: 25 euro or less, no cure no pay. If you want to concentrate on your business let me do the stitching for you. Free TB of Dropbox space when you have more then 250 euro business a year.

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by aaronpriest » Sun Apr 07, 2013 12:20 am

These are commercial ones for a client, and I can't (or shouldn't) publicize them until they have reviewed the final product. I can find a similar project to send your way in a couple days when I'm done with this one though if you'd like. I'm dumping all 234 photos or so (9 brackets) into PTGui and letting it handle the exposure fusion because it's doing it so well and it saves time doing it all in one step over an extra step blending the brackets first. They render in just a couple minutes on this machine. But it's very hands-on in PTGui creating a few vertical lines for leveling, masking out the tripod, manually aligning the off-axis nadir with the viewpoint correction feature, etc. My time in Photoshop is minimal though afterward, basically just removing some cosmetic blemishes like dust on the floor. I cleaned my sensor and lenses before the shoot (I always do on a major one), so no dust spots to deal with. And the house was professionally cleaned the day before too; so very, very little Photoshop work on this project. :D

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by HansKeesom » Sun Apr 07, 2013 12:48 am

aaronpriest wrote:These are commercial ones for a client, and I can't (or shouldn't) publicize them until they have reviewed the final product. I can find a similar project to send your way in a couple days when I'm done with this one though if you'd like. I'm dumping all 234 photos or so (9 brackets) into PTGui and letting it handle the exposure fusion because it's doing it so well and it saves time doing it all in one step over an extra step blending the brackets first. They render in just a couple minutes on this machine. But it's very hands-on in PTGui creating a few vertical lines for leveling, masking out the tripod, manually aligning the off-axis nadir with the viewpoint correction feature, etc. My time in Photoshop is minimal though afterward, basically just removing some cosmetic blemishes like dust on the floor. I cleaned my sensor and lenses before the shoot (I always do on a major one), so no dust spots to deal with. And the house was professionally cleaned the day before too; so very, very little Photoshop work on this project. :D

no need to publish them, send me a link to me on hans@hanskeesom.com or send me an email adres so I can share you some space on dropbox.
Regards, Hans Keesom
I stitch and render for other photographers. Price: 25 euro or less, no cure no pay. If you want to concentrate on your business let me do the stitching for you. Free TB of Dropbox space when you have more then 250 euro business a year.

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