Best technique for small spaces with a 5DMKiii  

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oreo5000
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Best technique for small spaces with a 5DMKiii

by oreo5000 » Tue Mar 26, 2013 3:14 pm

Hi Guys,
I was just looking for some advice really regarding lens and technique when shooting in very small spaces.
I currently have a nodal ninja 3 and a 5Dmkiii, is my best option to get a fisheye or shoot more rows with a wide lens?
I will be shooting in small spaces such as car interiors.
Any advice would be much appreciated
thanks for your help

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klausesser
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by klausesser » Tue Mar 26, 2013 3:36 pm

oreo5000 wrote:Hi Guys,
I was just looking for some advice really regarding lens and technique when shooting in very small spaces.
I currently have a nodal ninja 3 and a 5Dmkiii, is my best option to get a fisheye or shoot more rows with a wide lens?
I will be shooting in small spaces such as car interiors.
Any advice would be much appreciated
thanks for your help

Hi!

I use a 15mm Canon fisheye lens on a 5D2. It provides 112MPx with 5+1 shots @20% overlap. I often shoot in VERY narrow
spaces. No problem if you set up your NPP precisely - especially in narrow spaces that is vital!
Canon stopped the 2,8/15mm fisheye - they have a 4/8-15mm fisheye-zoom instead. It´s a good lens - but not better than the
"old" one which you can get for around 5-600.-€ now when you look for it.

I use the camera tilted to -12° for the 5 horizontal shots and add a +90° shot for Zenith. The Nadir-hole is so small then
that most likely you can easily retouch it in Photoshop,

You also can use 6 + 1 shot with 25% overlap. I neverused more than that on my manual Manfrotto head and my motorized
Panoneed.
On the Panoneed it´s definitely obsolete to use more than 20% overlap - which means 5+1 shot for a 112Mpx sphere using the 15mm fisheye.

http://360impressions.de/ToillettenPano/

best, Klaus
Simplicity is the keynote of all true elegance. Coco Chanel

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by oreo5000 » Wed Mar 27, 2013 10:34 am

Thanks for the quick response Klaus,
I shall pick up a 2.8/15 on ebay!

Just to clarify, is -12 looking down, or up, slightly? +90 is just one frame straight above right?

Thanks again

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by mediavets » Wed Mar 27, 2013 11:02 am

oreo5000 wrote:Thanks for the quick response Klaus,
I shall pick up a 2.8/15 on ebay!

Just to clarify, is -12 looking down, or up, slightly? +90 is just one frame straight above right?

Thanks again

Consider 0/0 to be looking straight ahead, if you see what I mean.

Thus -12 is looking down slightly; and +90 is looking straight up.

OK?
Last edited by mediavets on Wed Mar 27, 2013 11:43 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Nikon D5100 and D40, Sigma 8mm f3.5 FE, Nikon 10.5mm FE, 35mm, 50mm, 18-55mm, 70-210mm. Promote control.

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by oreo5000 » Wed Mar 27, 2013 11:32 am

Perfect, thanks. So what is the best method for getting a clean Nadir? i.e. removing tripod legs

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by klausesser » Wed Mar 27, 2013 11:57 am

oreo5000 wrote:Perfect, thanks. So what is the best method for getting a clean Nadir? i.e. removing tripod legs

Two strategies:

1) using the camera @ -12° results in a very small Nadir-hole. This can be retouched very easily in Photoshop. That´s what i do most of the time.
2) shooting an extra Nadir-image. To do that you´d need to mount the camera dowlooking beneath the tripod
and dragging the tripod away so that the camera can shoot the place where the tripod was before.

That´s a bit of a huzzle if you don´t have a head, which allows to swing around the vertical arm so that the camera looks
"outside" the head straight down.

NodaNinja provides an adapter for doing so. Look on their site.

best, Klaus
Simplicity is the keynote of all true elegance. Coco Chanel

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by oreo5000 » Wed Mar 27, 2013 12:08 pm

Thanks Klaus,
I am sure the retouch will be fine, but just incase I have a complex pattern..
I'm not quite sure I follow how you would shoot straight down without the tripod in place, how is the camera then supported?
Thanks again

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by gkaefer » Wed Mar 27, 2013 2:03 pm

oreo5000 wrote:Thanks Klaus,
I am sure the retouch will be fine, but just incase I have a complex pattern..
I'm not quite sure I follow how you would shoot straight down without the tripod in place, how is the camera then supported?
Thanks again

I for example mount my merlin on a ballhead.
I place a Stone or whatever placeholder under my Center column of my tripod,
my cam is looking to horizon, than i turn the merlin via my ballhead 90" so lens is looking to bottom. I lift my Center column again so the lens is in same height back before turning my ballhead/merlin to bottom. than I move my tripod so the Center of my lens is above the Stone/placeholder... finally I take 1-2 shots with changing the tripodlegs place but keeping the lens above the Stone/placeholder.

Georg

PS: Bob Ross would have said now: God bless and happy painting ;-))
Last edited by gkaefer on Wed Mar 27, 2013 2:04 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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by klausesser » Wed Mar 27, 2013 2:26 pm

oreo5000 wrote:Thanks Klaus,
I am sure the retouch will be fine, but just incase I have a complex pattern..
I'm not quite sure I follow how you would shoot straight down without the tripod in place, how is the camera then supported?
Thanks again

for example: http://www.traumflieger.de/shop/product_info.php?products_id=865&XTCsid=fe92c920466f82024238cea5bd31e9f6
(the NodalNinja-site is very badly informative about that device).

You also can use a ball-head as Georg described. But that´s somewhat less comfortable and you need a sturdy tripod
or apply extra-weights to at least one of the legs due to the lever-acting with a 90° tilted camera/lens/head assembly.

best, Klaus
Simplicity is the keynote of all true elegance. Coco Chanel

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by gkaefer » Wed Mar 27, 2013 2:54 pm

... yes I use a sturdy (up to 2.2m rock solid, usable with wind up to 2.65m) tripod:
"Manfrotto - 161MK2B - Super Professional Tripod Mk2"
with 40mm Diameter legs...
http://www.manfrotto.com/super-professional-tripod-mk2

Georg
Last edited by gkaefer on Wed Mar 27, 2013 2:56 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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by oreo5000 » Wed Mar 27, 2013 4:02 pm

Thanks guys, appreciate the responses.

Klaus, thanks for the link, so am I correct in thinking that I just shoot 5 + 1 and then mark my centre point and flip the NN around with that adapter, move the tripod to one side, place the centre of the lens directly above the marked point, shoot and then do the same at the opposite side? or can you get away with just taking one frame?

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by klausesser » Wed Mar 27, 2013 7:03 pm

oreo5000 wrote:Thanks guys, appreciate the responses.

Klaus, thanks for the link, so am I correct in thinking that I just shoot 5 + 1 and then mark my centre point and flip the NN around with that adapter, move the tripod to one side, place the centre of the lens directly above the marked point, shoot and then do the same at the opposite side? or can you get away with just taking one frame?

You only need ONE frame when you have such a small Nadir-hole like the one you get whith a -12° tilt camera.

If you run into trouble with 20% overlap: use 25% and 6 + Z.

best, Klaus
Last edited by klausesser on Wed Mar 27, 2013 7:05 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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by mandiop » Tue Apr 02, 2013 4:53 am

nodal ninja 3 and a 5Dmkiii is good

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by HansKeesom » Tue Apr 02, 2013 8:53 am

oreo5000 wrote:Thanks Klaus,
I am sure the retouch will be fine, but just incase I have a complex pattern..
I'm not quite sure I follow how you would shoot straight down without the tripod in place, how is the camera then supported?
Thanks again

Look for the nodal ninja nadir adapter. It allows the vertical arm to rotate 180 degrees around a vertical axis. This means that when the camera looks straight down it is not looking down on the rotator but looking down on the floor. Then move the tripod such that the camera is looking down where the rotator(and center of tripod used to be.
.
Last edited by HansKeesom on Tue Apr 02, 2013 8:56 am, edited 1 time in total.
Regards, Hans Keesom
I stitch and render for other photographers. Price: 25 euro or less, no cure no pay. If you want to concentrate on your business let me do the stitching for you. Free TB of Dropbox space when you have more then 250 euro business a year.

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by oreo5000 » Tue Apr 02, 2013 4:45 pm

Thanks Hans, so basically you just mark your centre point and then move the tripod out of the way and rotate with the adapter so the lens points stright down?

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by HansKeesom » Tue Apr 02, 2013 5:46 pm

Yes lens points straight down. Rotate tripod around the lens in 90/120 degrees while keeping lens at the centre point to make multiple nadir shots/brackets.

Might be difficult to do the above in a 1 m2 toilet, but in a bathroom it works already.
Regards, Hans Keesom
I stitch and render for other photographers. Price: 25 euro or less, no cure no pay. If you want to concentrate on your business let me do the stitching for you. Free TB of Dropbox space when you have more then 250 euro business a year.

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by klausesser » Tue Apr 02, 2013 6:03 pm

HansKeesom wrote:Yes lens points straight down. Rotate tripod around the lens in 90/120 degrees while keeping lens at the centre point to make multiple nadir shots/brackets.

Might be difficult to do the above in a 1 m2 toilet, but in a bathroom it works already.

Not to forget: works only with short focal lenses up to 35mm. Beginning at 50mm and more it´s impossible.
So with hires spheres it can´t be done.

best, Klaus
Simplicity is the keynote of all true elegance. Coco Chanel

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by HansKeesom » Tue Apr 02, 2013 6:31 pm

Klaus, you make me smile.

I designed a shooting pattern that should solve this. Coming weekend I hope to have time to make it happen. Making the 'impossible' possible
Regards, Hans Keesom
I stitch and render for other photographers. Price: 25 euro or less, no cure no pay. If you want to concentrate on your business let me do the stitching for you. Free TB of Dropbox space when you have more then 250 euro business a year.

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by klausesser » Tue Apr 02, 2013 7:08 pm

HansKeesom wrote:Klaus, you make me smile.

I designed a shooting pattern that should solve this. Coming weekend I hope to have time to make it happen. Making the 'impossible' possible

I don´t think so, Hans! :cool:

Think it over twice: the moment you need to do more than ONE Nadir-shot - and that´s the case you use more than 35mm and depending on the overlap you want/need even earlier:
Which direction do you move the camera when the vertical arm is turned around 180° and the camera looks from "outside" the head? ;):cool:

Exactly: it moves the wrong way. So: i´m curious how you will solve the problem :P

As long as you need only ONE shot straight down it´s easy. When you need more it might be doable - but you´ll need much more time compared to editing the Nadir in PS.
And: what about you have a 2 or 3 gigapixel-sphere - nothing remarkable, every day´s work here - about 200-300 shots? In that case you would need a lot of Nadir-shots. How would you shoot them from the head?

Regarding the PRACTICAL side of it all my conclusion is clear . . . :)

best, Klaus
Simplicity is the keynote of all true elegance. Coco Chanel

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by HansKeesom » Tue Apr 02, 2013 8:12 pm

klausesser wrote:
HansKeesom wrote:Klaus, you make me smile.

I designed a shooting pattern that should solve this. Coming weekend I hope to have time to make it happen. Making the 'impossible' possible

I don´t think so, Hans! :cool:

Think it over twice: the moment you need to do more than ONE Nadir-shot - and that´s the case you use more than 35mm and depending on the overlap you want/need even earlier:
Which direction do you move the camera when the vertical arm is turned around 180° and the camera looks from "outside" the head? ;):cool:

Exactly: it moves the wrong way. So: i´m curious how you will solve the problem :P

As long as you need only ONE shot straight down it´s easy. When you need more it might be doable - but you´ll need much more time compared to editing the Nadir in PS.
And: what about you have a 2 or 3 gigapixel-sphere - nothing remarkable, every day´s work here - about 200-300 shots? In that case you would need a lot of Nadir-shots. How would you shoot them from the head?

Regarding the PRACTICAL side of it all my conclusion is clear . . . :)

best, Klaus

This is really funny..... I will wait to see how long it takes you to figure it out....
Regards, Hans Keesom
I stitch and render for other photographers. Price: 25 euro or less, no cure no pay. If you want to concentrate on your business let me do the stitching for you. Free TB of Dropbox space when you have more then 250 euro business a year.

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by gkaefer » Tue Apr 02, 2013 9:46 pm

HansKeesom wrote:
klausesser wrote:
HansKeesom wrote:Klaus, you make me smile.

I designed a shooting pattern that should solve this. Coming weekend I hope to have time to make it happen. Making the 'impossible' possible

I don´t think so, Hans! :cool:

Think it over twice: the moment you need to do more than ONE Nadir-shot - and that´s the case you use more than 35mm and depending on the overlap you want/need even earlier:
Which direction do you move the camera when the vertical arm is turned around 180° and the camera looks from "outside" the head? ;):cool:

Exactly: it moves the wrong way. So: i´m curious how you will solve the problem :P

As long as you need only ONE shot straight down it´s easy. When you need more it might be doable - but you´ll need much more time compared to editing the Nadir in PS.
And: what about you have a 2 or 3 gigapixel-sphere - nothing remarkable, every day´s work here - about 200-300 shots? In that case you would need a lot of Nadir-shots. How would you shoot them from the head?

Regarding the PRACTICAL side of it all my conclusion is clear . . . :)

best, Klaus

This is really funny..... I will wait to see how long it takes you to figure it out....

and where is the joke now, come out please... its April 2nd now so this cant be the solution...
Georg
Last edited by gkaefer on Tue Apr 02, 2013 9:47 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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by HansKeesom » Tue Apr 02, 2013 9:56 pm

It's much more fun when Klaus finds this "easter egg" himself. Second best is anyone else but me.
Regards, Hans Keesom
I stitch and render for other photographers. Price: 25 euro or less, no cure no pay. If you want to concentrate on your business let me do the stitching for you. Free TB of Dropbox space when you have more then 250 euro business a year.

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by klausesser » Tue Apr 02, 2013 10:52 pm

HansKeesom wrote:It's much more fun when Klaus finds this "easter egg" himself. Second best is anyone else but me.

Come on - you don´t have the answer.
Did you ever use 35mm, 50mm or 85mm for shooting a sphere?
How did you shoot the Nadirs then?

Best, Klaus
Simplicity is the keynote of all true elegance. Coco Chanel

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by oreo5000 » Wed Apr 03, 2013 12:02 pm

Hi Guys, I now have a nodal ninja 5, an EZ leveller II and the Canon 15mm 2.8 on my MKIII.
Can anyone give me a starting point for the rail/arm settings?
Thanks again

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by klausesser » Wed Apr 03, 2013 1:03 pm

oreo5000 wrote:Hi Guys, I now have a nodal ninja 5, an EZ leveller II and the Canon 15mm 2.8 on my MKIII.
Can anyone give me a starting point for the rail/arm settings?
Thanks again

I use this setting for the NPP. Start from it for finding yours. (i mean the rim of the ring with "Canon Fisheye . . " engraved on)
Don´t care for the numbers you can read on the rail!

best, Klaus


Last edited by klausesser on Wed Apr 03, 2013 1:08 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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