RAM and Photoshop, how much for a gigapano?  

In the panorama field, hardware is also part of the success. You can discuss here about it: camera, computer, pano head, anything
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manneke-d
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RAM and Photoshop, how much for a gigapano?

by manneke-d » Tue Jan 01, 2013 10:09 am

Hello all,


Let's start with a wish for a happy new year for all of you.


Now the question.
I am composing a new computer and I have some question regarding the amount of RAM in combination with Photoshop CS6.

My latest panorama (after a switch from an 8 to 18 MP camera) was 2.4 GPix with an 18.4 GB Photoshop file. That file was a bit to much for my current computer (E8500 C2D, 8 GB RAM). Doing things in PS was one thing, saving the file was another thing (don't want to talk about that).
So my new computer must have plenty of RAM...

But how much is enough? Is 32 GB enough to work smoothly in PS on 18 GB (or more) files? Or do I need to go to 64 GB?
If the 32 GB is enough than I can stick to my original plan of an i7-3770 with a socket 1155 motherboard.
Because of the 32 GB limitation on socket 1155 motherboards, if I need more RAM, I must make a switch to socket 2011. And that has some consequences for my budget.
I vaguely remember someone told me that you/Photoshop need/s two times more RAM than the size of the file you work with. If so, I definitely need more that 32 GB.


Thanks for the answers and advice.
manneke-d

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Christian Stüben
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by Christian Stüben » Tue Jan 01, 2013 11:57 am

Hi Manneke,
there is one thing that is better than more ram ... it is even more ram. So my advice is, wait one or two months more so that socket 2011 is on budget.

On the other side ... with my old 4 GB laptop i use photoshop to open images with a filesize up to 30 GB or more.
Yes, time consumption is insane, it takes half eternity to open the file, another half eternity to edit, and yet another half eternity to save the changes. But it can be done.
If your pc or laptop has the place for a second hard drive, get it and setup photoshop to use the second drive for its temp files. This will speed up noticeable.

And yes, i too wait the one or two months to get the 2011 socket :P

greetings from gemany
Chris
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always remember, the world is a flat disk.

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by gkaefer » Tue Jan 01, 2013 12:27 pm

I posted some days ago a setup of an new Computer 2011 socket, Xeon based.
http://www.kolor.com/forum/p109335-2012-12-27-13-19-21#p109335
the "addon" option of SSD I mentioned is more than that. so maybe rather reduce the 6discRAID5 to a RAID1 with 2 discs but do not miss the SSDs.
the setup is fit for next two years. a second Xeon can be added to add more 6cores/12threads and RAM can be upgraded up to 256GB with this setup and if you replace them to bigger ones than even up to 512GB. the current setup I describe is using 2GPU cards with option to 4. Currently starting with one may be sufficient. I dont know if autopano preview can hanlde SLI combined cards and finally profit from 8GB GDRRAM. so maybe start with 1 Nvicdia GTX card and invest instead in additional SSD power.

about memory and PS: no idea if there are limits (does the 300.000 x 300.000 pixel limit still exist in PS?)
autopano & memory calculation for RAM:
http://www.kolor.com/forum/p87033-2011-08-11-11-53-58#p87033

so if you wanna do gigapixels on a regular job basis you need to save time and to make better use of the resources, I would use 64GB with trend to more

PS: first posting :cool: welcome on forum! Actually you're not the first one posting in first post talking & asking about gigapixels. So I dont knwo how many gigas you did made, so sorry if you're an old stager ;) but most importand much more than having 64GB Ram Servers available is practise practise and much more practise. each single project will give you new sticks & bumpers you've to sturggle with. so getting familar with workflows is wise to do it with 18mm sphericals ....;)

Georg
Last edited by gkaefer on Tue Jan 01, 2013 12:42 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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by HansKeesom » Tue Jan 01, 2013 1:39 pm

gkaefer wrote:....
about memory and PS: no idea if there are limits (does the 300.000 x 300.000 pixel limit still exist in PS?)
autopano & memory calculation for RAM:
http://www.kolor.com/forum/p87033-2011-08-11-11-53-58#p87033

It made me smile on this first day of the first year after the end of the world, to see the formula we developed with some forummembers here still serves it purpose. I hope it can serve its purpose for long but also that it can be updated when there is a clear indication it can be improved.
Regards, Hans Keesom
I stitch and render for other photographers. Price: 25 euro or less, no cure no pay. If you want to concentrate on your business let me do the stitching for you. Free TB of Dropbox space when you have more then 250 euro business a year.

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by HansKeesom » Tue Jan 01, 2013 1:42 pm

gkaefer wrote:I posted some days ago a setup of an new Computer 2011 socket, Xeon based.
http://www.kolor.com/forum/p109335-2012-12-27-13-19-21#p109335
the "addon" option of SSD I mentioned is more than that. so maybe rather reduce the 6discRAID5 to a RAID1 with 2 discs but do not miss the SSDs.
the setup is fit for next two years. a second Xeon can be added to add more 6cores/12threads and RAM can be upgraded up to 256GB with this setup and if you replace them to bigger ones than even up to 512GB. the current setup I describe is using 2GPU cards with option to 4. Currently starting with one may be sufficient. I dont know if autopano preview can hanlde SLI combined cards and finally profit from 8GB GDRRAM. so maybe start with 1 Nvicdia GTX card and invest instead in additional SSD power.
......

I have two 85 euro GPU cards with each 4 GB of memory. They are working as crossfire but it looks to me there is no benifit from it when using APG. Fortunely it was only 85 euro...
Regards, Hans Keesom
I stitch and render for other photographers. Price: 25 euro or less, no cure no pay. If you want to concentrate on your business let me do the stitching for you. Free TB of Dropbox space when you have more then 250 euro business a year.

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by tived » Wed Jan 02, 2013 5:48 am

Georg,

the 2011 isn't overclockable like the 1366 Xeon's, the 2011 XEON, can only be overclocked 4% unless you buy special CPU's from Intel "Intel charges around $2 per 1MHz CPU increment at these performance levels, so gaining 124MHz on two CPUs is worth around $500 given current pricing." http://www.servethehome.com/supermicro-hyper-speed-server-overclocking-bios/ the 124Mhz is the 4% across all cores in a dual core system. going any higher and you will have to pay!!! Its just not possible ATM. (but your config in your post sure is a nice setup, did you end up getting it?)

To the OP, i have 48GB and the ability to overclock a dual XEON X5650 @ 2.66Ghz to 4.3Ghz or I can stick in another 48GB for a total 96GB and I can only squeeze 3.1Ghz with the type of ram I am using now with 96GB. Now I do occasionally work on 10-20GB file sizes, and this is heavy lifting. As you noted in your current config, that you could do things to the file in Photoshop, but when it came to saving it, things would have stood still or at least appeared to have done so. Why! Slow storage!!! ;-) You need to have a storage array fast enough to off load the data to disk/SSD, in this case you will need a nice fast array. With my current setup, which is a bit slow at the moment I can average 1GB/sec and peak at 4GB/sec thats with 2x 6 SSD's in RAID-0 which makes it RAID-00 of 12 disks (across two controllers), plus i have another 8 SSD RAID-0 for my OS/apps on a 3rd controller.

You can use Hans's calculator and try and work out how much you need, but most single CPU's boards are limited to 64GB of RAM

Happy New Year

Henrik


gkaefer wrote:I posted some days ago a setup of an new Computer 2011 socket, Xeon based.
http://www.kolor.com/forum/p109335-2012-12-27-13-19-21#p109335
the "addon" option of SSD I mentioned is more than that. so maybe rather reduce the 6discRAID5 to a RAID1 with 2 discs but do not miss the SSDs.
the setup is fit for next two years. a second Xeon can be added to add more 6cores/12threads and RAM can be upgraded up to 256GB with this setup and if you replace them to bigger ones than even up to 512GB. the current setup I describe is using 2GPU cards with option to 4. Currently starting with one may be sufficient. I dont know if autopano preview can hanlde SLI combined cards and finally profit from 8GB GDRRAM. so maybe start with 1 Nvicdia GTX card and invest instead in additional SSD power.

about memory and PS: no idea if there are limits (does the 300.000 x 300.000 pixel limit still exist in PS?)
autopano & memory calculation for RAM:
http://www.kolor.com/forum/p87033-2011-08-11-11-53-58#p87033

so if you wanna do gigapixels on a regular job basis you need to save time and to make better use of the resources, I would use 64GB with trend to more

PS: first posting :cool: welcome on forum! Actually you're not the first one posting in first post talking & asking about gigapixels. So I dont knwo how many gigas you did made, so sorry if you're an old stager ;) but most importand much more than having 64GB Ram Servers available is practise practise and much more practise. each single project will give you new sticks & bumpers you've to sturggle with. so getting familar with workflows is wise to do it with 18mm sphericals ....;)

Georg

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by HansKeesom » Wed Jan 02, 2013 10:53 am

Just throwing in my two cents : instead of buying a machine it might be an idea to hire on in the cloud. I did some research in the past and although the concept worked fine, I could not get a machine with more then 16 GB. Now I checked again and 64 GB is possible. And it seems like you only pay for the time you use it.

Try playing with the sliders on the right at this page
http://www.opsource.net/Services/Cloud-Hosting/Pricing

I guess to have 1 CPU is the best for APG as it does not use all CPU's all the time.
Regards, Hans Keesom
I stitch and render for other photographers. Price: 25 euro or less, no cure no pay. If you want to concentrate on your business let me do the stitching for you. Free TB of Dropbox space when you have more then 250 euro business a year.

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by tived » Wed Jan 02, 2013 11:40 am

It's an interesting idea, probably one that will take off down the track. I am just not sure it's for everyone, but neither as an oversize powerhouse :-) of a computer.
The cloud will become more attractive when we get faster Internet access, at least here in Australia, we are not moving that fast.

Henrik

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by HansKeesom » Wed Jan 02, 2013 11:49 am

Hi Henrik,

The more bandwidth, the less need for a strong machine at home...

The idea I have is to put my data on dropbox first or other online storage first and when that is finished to start up the cloudmachine and get all data quickly and automaticly from dropbox.
Other photographers I will be working for are also using dropbox to send me data, so they will be in the loop automaticly.

Of course gigapanorama can have a few GB's of data... At the moment I can upload 7 GB in 24 hours... how about your connection?
Regards, Hans Keesom
I stitch and render for other photographers. Price: 25 euro or less, no cure no pay. If you want to concentrate on your business let me do the stitching for you. Free TB of Dropbox space when you have more then 250 euro business a year.

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klausesser
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by klausesser » Wed Jan 02, 2013 1:04 pm

HansKeesom wrote:Just throwing in my two cents : instead of buying a machine it might be an idea to hire on in the cloud. I did some research in the past and although the concept worked fine, I could not get a machine with more then 16 GB. Now I checked again and 64 GB is possible. And it seems like you only pay for the time you use it.

Try playing with the sliders on the right at this page
http://www.opsource.net/Services/Cloud-Hosting/Pricing

I guess to have 1 CPU is the best for APG as it does not use all CPU's all the time.

I´m afraid to not understand that in detail. WHAT is it you would use via the cloud?

As i understand the point is to have as much RAM on the local machine and using graphic card power as possible for dealing with big panos.
How would that work faster or better via the cloud?

I have a 32000 cable - one or two GB don´t take too long . . . but i use it to transport the finished project to the client´s or to my server.
Sending data via the cloud during the process of stitching or time-consuming rendering i don´t understand!? How would that be preferable?

Guess i miss the point, do i? :cool:

best, Klaus
Simplicity is the keynote of all true elegance. Coco Chanel

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by gkaefer » Wed Jan 02, 2013 1:29 pm

klausesser wrote:
HansKeesom wrote:Just throwing in my two cents : instead of buying a machine it might be an idea to hire on in the cloud. I did some research in the past and although the concept worked fine, I could not get a machine with more then 16 GB. Now I checked again and 64 GB is possible. And it seems like you only pay for the time you use it.

Try playing with the sliders on the right at this page
http://www.opsource.net/Services/Cloud-Hosting/Pricing

I guess to have 1 CPU is the best for APG as it does not use all CPU's all the time.

I´m afraid to not understand that in detail. WHAT is it you would use via the cloud?

As i understand the point is to have as much RAM on the local machine and using graphic card power as possible for dealing with big panos.
How would that work faster or better via the cloud?

I have a 32000 cable - one or two GB don´t take too long . . . but i use it to transport the finished project to the client´s or to my server.
Sending data via the cloud during the process of stitching or time-consuming rendering i don´t understand!? How would that be preferable?

Guess i miss the point, do i? :cool:

best, Klaus

you can buy such setup for your office...
you can rent/lease it and its i your office too...
but you also can rent/lease such server/workstations and they are located at the ISP where you do rent/lease it from.
with teamviewer or any other OS dependand method cou can connect to "your" workstation and work with..

but in most cases these are based on vsphere or any other virtualization patform. So dont be sure if this is not a performance loss too...

;) eorg
Last edited by gkaefer on Wed Jan 02, 2013 1:31 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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by klausesser » Wed Jan 02, 2013 2:15 pm

gkaefer wrote:
klausesser wrote:
HansKeesom wrote:Just throwing in my two cents : instead of buying a machine it might be an idea to hire on in the cloud. I did some research in the past and although the concept worked fine, I could not get a machine with more then 16 GB. Now I checked again and 64 GB is possible. And it seems like you only pay for the time you use it.

Try playing with the sliders on the right at this page
http://www.opsource.net/Services/Cloud-Hosting/Pricing

I guess to have 1 CPU is the best for APG as it does not use all CPU's all the time.

I´m afraid to not understand that in detail. WHAT is it you would use via the cloud?

As i understand the point is to have as much RAM on the local machine and using graphic card power as possible for dealing with big panos.
How would that work faster or better via the cloud?

I have a 32000 cable - one or two GB don´t take too long . . . but i use it to transport the finished project to the client´s or to my server.
Sending data via the cloud during the process of stitching or time-consuming rendering i don´t understand!? How would that be preferable?

Guess i miss the point, do i? :cool:

best, Klaus

you can buy such setup for your office...
you can rent/lease it and its i your office too...
but you also can rent/lease such server/workstations and they are located at the ISP where you do rent/lease it from.
with teamviewer or any other OS dependand method cou can connect to "your" workstation and work with..

but in most cases these are based on vsphere or any other virtualization patform. So dont be sure if this is not a performance loss too...

;) eorg

Hey Georg!

What i meant is the speed of transporting the data when you use the cloud as a substitution for your local machine´s RAM.

Or wasn´t it meant this way?

bewst, KLaus
Simplicity is the keynote of all true elegance. Coco Chanel

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by tived » Wed Jan 02, 2013 2:40 pm

I might have gotten this wrong, but I reckon I could probably stitch and render it in the same time :-) probably because we have really slow ADSL

:-)

Henrik

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by HansKeesom » Wed Jan 02, 2013 4:17 pm

Hi Klaus,

the point is not having to buy a machine. Next to my 16 GB RAM i7 920 workstation I have at home I now also have a 64 GB RAM machine which can have 1 to 8 core if I want to. It didn't cost me anything so i can keep thousands of euro's on my bacnkaccount.

When the machine is not running I pay only a few euros a month for storage. When it is turned on I pay 1 to 2 euros an hour for it.

Hope this is more clear to you.

If you want to send me a heavy panorama to test the machine, be welcome. You can use the dropbox as descriped in my signature.




klausesser wrote:
HansKeesom wrote:Just throwing in my two cents : instead of buying a machine it might be an idea to hire on in the cloud. I did some research in the past and although the concept worked fine, I could not get a machine with more then 16 GB. Now I checked again and 64 GB is possible. And it seems like you only pay for the time you use it.

Try playing with the sliders on the right at this page
http://www.opsource.net/Services/Cloud-Hosting/Pricing

I guess to have 1 CPU is the best for APG as it does not use all CPU's all the time.

I´m afraid to not understand that in detail. WHAT is it you would use via the cloud?

As i understand the point is to have as much RAM on the local machine and using graphic card power as possible for dealing with big panos.
How would that work faster or better via the cloud?

I have a 32000 cable - one or two GB don´t take too long . . . but i use it to transport the finished project to the client´s or to my server.
Sending data via the cloud during the process of stitching or time-consuming rendering i don´t understand!? How would that be preferable?

Guess i miss the point, do i? :cool:

best, Klaus
Regards, Hans Keesom
I stitch and render for other photographers. Price: 25 euro or less, no cure no pay. If you want to concentrate on your business let me do the stitching for you. Free TB of Dropbox space when you have more then 250 euro business a year.

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by HansKeesom » Wed Jan 02, 2013 4:18 pm

tived wrote:I might have gotten this wrong, but I reckon I could probably stitch and render it in the same time :-) probably because we have really slow ADSL

:-)

Henrik

With the machine you have and the adsl you have, yes it would be quicker. Now imagine you would not yet have the machine.....
Regards, Hans Keesom
I stitch and render for other photographers. Price: 25 euro or less, no cure no pay. If you want to concentrate on your business let me do the stitching for you. Free TB of Dropbox space when you have more then 250 euro business a year.

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by HansKeesom » Wed Jan 02, 2013 4:45 pm

You can test thing for yourself asking a $200 credit or a 14 day free ride

http://www.opsource.net/Services/Cloud-Hosting/Free-Trial-200-Dollar-Cloud-Offer

prices can be seen at http://www.opsource.net/Services/Cloud-Hosting/Pricing

I made my calculation based on 1 day a month so 3%, just for the few times I need to work on a panorama that does not finish on my 16 GB machine.
Regards, Hans Keesom
I stitch and render for other photographers. Price: 25 euro or less, no cure no pay. If you want to concentrate on your business let me do the stitching for you. Free TB of Dropbox space when you have more then 250 euro business a year.

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by klausesser » Wed Jan 02, 2013 11:43 pm

HansKeesom wrote:Hope this is more clear to you.

No. Not at all. I understand what you write - but i don´t see the sense in it related to working on big panoramas.

(I think the preferable way is a machine with a sufficient amount of RAM, a good graphic card and very fast drives.
I have 32GB RAM in my MAcPro (2 Xeons) and 64GB RAM in my PC (one i7) . Splitting tasks among them and having them connected via GB-Ethernet makes
working very comfortable.)

Could you explain how it would work what you described in detail?

best, Klaus
Simplicity is the keynote of all true elegance. Coco Chanel

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by HansKeesom » Thu Jan 03, 2013 12:16 am

klausesser wrote:
HansKeesom wrote:Hope this is more clear to you.

No. Not at all. I understand what you write - but i don´t see the sense in it related to working on big panoramas.

(I think the preferable way is a machine with a sufficient amount of RAM, a good graphic card and very fast drives.
I have 32GB RAM in my MAcPro (2 Xeons) and 64GB RAM in my PC (one i7) . Splitting tasks among them and having them connected via GB-Ethernet makes
working very comfortable.)

Could you explain how it would work what you described in detail?

best, Klaus

The sense of it for big panoramas........

If I want to do big panoramas I would have to invest big money to get a computer that can process it. Now I don't have to do that anymore. I just hire a machine....which happens to be virtual and in the cloud, but that is detail.
Regards, Hans Keesom
I stitch and render for other photographers. Price: 25 euro or less, no cure no pay. If you want to concentrate on your business let me do the stitching for you. Free TB of Dropbox space when you have more then 250 euro business a year.

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by klausesser » Thu Jan 03, 2013 12:58 am

HansKeesom wrote:Hi Klaus,

There are two concepts you need to understand. The first is that of a virtual machine, the second is that of remote desktop control.

The concept of a virtual machine means you don't install the operatings system on a real machine but introduce a layer inbetween that can run virtual machine like a MS-Excell can have multiple documents open and running. The advantage is that you can easily move a virtual machine from one hardware machine to another, even on the fly, without stopping it. This offers great scalability.

I use a virtual machine.

HansKeesom wrote:You can have virtual machine running inside your mac or pc, providing you have enough ram and diskpace, but you can have them also run on the systems of a caas-provider. Caas stands for compute as a service. So instead of providing you a webserver, they no provide you with computing power. Actually you get your own private network and can build a number of virtual machine in that network.
Of course, when you are at home, at the office or anywhere on the internet, you want to be able to work on that computer. For this you make a VPN-connection to the network you created and with a RDP-client you can work on the computer as if you are sitting behind it, although actually you might be at the other side of the planet.

Hans - you always say "office". For office use it´s ok. Usually you don´t have gigabyte-files in one piece like images but many small textfiles or tables or whatever.

HansKeesom wrote:Now if you are working on panoramas on an almost daily basis, it is surely an good idea to have a good workstation at home that can handle most of the tasks that need to be done. But if you everynow and then need a bigger machine with more memory and more horsepower, a virtual machine might be the way to go.

That´s not really new to me at all, Hans. But you didn´t answer my question. How would you handle gigabyte-files of around 6GB via a web-connection?

What i want to know i what you mean IN DETAIL - you didn´t answer that one!
Do you mean to PROCESS the panos via the web? Which means that a heavy machine stand somewhere in a rack and does the stitching and rendering work with the imags you send and you edit the stitchig from your desktop at home? Do you mean somewhere is a guy who receives your data via the web and processes the panos for you on his machine?

WHAT do you mean PRECISELY?? It´s not at all clear to me what your hard facts are - where there might be advantages for somebody who doesn´t want to buy a fast machine.

Besides: i rent things i don´t need to use constantly very often on daily or weekly base instead of buying them - that´s definitely not new to me . . :D:cool:

best, Klaus
Simplicity is the keynote of all true elegance. Coco Chanel

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by HansKeesom » Thu Jan 03, 2013 10:00 am

How to handle 6 GB via the web? You can use wetransfer.com or dropbox.com. They are both limited to 2 GB but dropbox can be expanded. I use symform which gives me hundreds of GB omline. Using a ADSL line you might need up to 24 hour to get things online, use glasfiber it might be more like 24 minutes. I m testing things as we speak with a 21 GB project.

The machine is not in a rack, it is virtual and runs as one of many virtual machines on a collection of machines that likely are in a rack.

One can control a virtual machine from home/office/anywhere using RDP, remote desktop protocol. Mouse and keyboard actions are sent to the virtual machine which sents back video changes.

I was not trying to explain the concept of renting to you, I tried to explain the concept of renting computing power.
Last edited by HansKeesom on Thu Jan 03, 2013 11:18 am, edited 1 time in total.
Regards, Hans Keesom
I stitch and render for other photographers. Price: 25 euro or less, no cure no pay. If you want to concentrate on your business let me do the stitching for you. Free TB of Dropbox space when you have more then 250 euro business a year.

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by klausesser » Thu Jan 03, 2013 1:21 pm

HansKeesom wrote:I tried to explain the concept of renting computing power.

I understand that. What i don´t uderstand: do you mean to run the prcodess of stitching and rendering remotely on a machine which is located somewhere else in the world?
Because in that case you would have a constant stream of data - as you have on your local machine between Processor, RAM, HD, grapic card - via the web.

To try to pin that down:

1) you can run it all on a local machine. You need to upgrade your machine to a certain level. Right.
2) you can send all the images to somebody else who stitches and renders them. You have no control, can´t keep delicate things in secret (for Marlboro i needed to sign non-disclosure papers to assure them nobody but me can see the photographs of the product. Not - sometimes - even an asistant. In advertising that´s a usual procedure when you work for a campaign).
3) you can use one or more VMs on your machine to split up the processes - stitching on No1, editing on No2, rendering on No3. That´s ok - but it slows down you machine significantly and provides no advantage.
4) i understand you suggest to have a machine in the cloud which does for you the same like VMs would do on your local machines - IF i understand you correct!??
That would mean you act like you work on your machine at home - but physically you work via the web on a machine which stands somewhere else.
That´s what i understand you state.

I know this way - i photographed a campaign for IBM some time ago which dealt with that "distributed computing" (not sure that was the term). The point is: that works fine
when you handle lots of small files like in office use - but its´s a mess when you handle big files.

I still don´t know what you mean IN DETAIL!

Definitely the best way is to configure your local machine for the work you need to do. If you NEED to have a massive hardware it means you have jobs which require massive hardware.
If you don´t have jobs which require massive hardware you can do very fine with less massive hardware. Because time isn´t a such important factor when you do it as a hobby or deal with small panos.

Seems simple logic to me . . . ;):cool:

best, Klaus
Last edited by klausesser on Thu Jan 03, 2013 1:28 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Simplicity is the keynote of all true elegance. Coco Chanel

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HansKeesom
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by HansKeesom » Thu Jan 03, 2013 11:01 pm

Klaus,

I give up, someone else will have to try to explain what it is to run a virtual machine in the cloud by RDP...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cloud_computing

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Desktop_virtualization

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Remote_Desktop_Protocol



klausesser wrote:
HansKeesom wrote:I tried to explain the concept of renting computing power.

I understand that. What i don´t uderstand: do you mean to run the prcodess of stitching and rendering remotely on a machine which is located somewhere else in the world?
Because in that case you would have a constant stream of data - as you have on your local machine between Processor, RAM, HD, grapic card - via the web.

To try to pin that down:

1) you can run it all on a local machine. You need to upgrade your machine to a certain level. Right.
2) you can send all the images to somebody else who stitches and renders them. You have no control, can´t keep delicate things in secret (for Marlboro i needed to sign non-disclosure papers to assure them nobody but me can see the photographs of the product. Not - sometimes - even an asistant. In advertising that´s a usual procedure when you work for a campaign).
3) you can use one or more VMs on your machine to split up the processes - stitching on No1, editing on No2, rendering on No3. That´s ok - but it slows down you machine significantly and provides no advantage.
4) i understand you suggest to have a machine in the cloud which does for you the same like VMs would do on your local machines - IF i understand you correct!??
That would mean you act like you work on your machine at home - but physically you work via the web on a machine which stands somewhere else.
That´s what i understand you state.

I know this way - i photographed a campaign for IBM some time ago which dealt with that "distributed computing" (not sure that was the term). The point is: that works fine
when you handle lots of small files like in office use - but its´s a mess when you handle big files.

I still don´t know what you mean IN DETAIL!

Definitely the best way is to configure your local machine for the work you need to do. If you NEED to have a massive hardware it means you have jobs which require massive hardware.
If you don´t have jobs which require massive hardware you can do very fine with less massive hardware. Because time isn´t a such important factor when you do it as a hobby or deal with small panos.

Seems simple logic to me . . . ;):cool:

best, Klaus
Last edited by HansKeesom on Fri Jan 04, 2013 12:00 am, edited 1 time in total.
Regards, Hans Keesom
I stitch and render for other photographers. Price: 25 euro or less, no cure no pay. If you want to concentrate on your business let me do the stitching for you. Free TB of Dropbox space when you have more then 250 euro business a year.

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klausesser
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by klausesser » Fri Jan 04, 2013 12:05 am

HansKeesom wrote:Klaus,

I give up, someone else will have to try to explain what it is to run a virtual machine in the cloud by RDP...

Hans - i KNOW what it´s like running a virtual machine via a network. That´s why i know it´s absolutely not appropriate for the use with big stitches/renderings.

Georg answered my question by mail i originally asked you. He understands it having APG installed on a remote machine and working on it remotely as it was a local machine. Right?
That was what i thought you mean - but couldn´t imagine you mean that seriously with - example - 6 GB files.

So you might give up if you like - i would have preferred you answering my question in a way i asked you: in detail. You didn´t. Georg did instead.

best, Klaus
Last edited by klausesser on Fri Jan 04, 2013 12:07 am, edited 1 time in total.
Simplicity is the keynote of all true elegance. Coco Chanel

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HansKeesom
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by HansKeesom » Fri Jan 04, 2013 12:30 am

Dear Klaus,

Thank you for your opinion. it clearly differs from mine. Personally I like to make an distinction between opinion and knowledge, but that might be because of my athiest background.

It is my opionion your last sentence has a kind of unpleasant tone to it. May I kindly ask you not to use it towards me again.
Regards, Hans Keesom
I stitch and render for other photographers. Price: 25 euro or less, no cure no pay. If you want to concentrate on your business let me do the stitching for you. Free TB of Dropbox space when you have more then 250 euro business a year.

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klausesser
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Location: Duesseldorf, Germany

by klausesser » Fri Jan 04, 2013 1:20 am

HansKeesom wrote:Dear Klaus,

Thank you for your opinion. it clearly differs from mine. Personally I like to make an distinction between opinion and knowledge, but that might be because of my athiest background.

It is my opionion your last sentence has a kind of unpleasant tone to it. May I kindly ask you not to use it towards me again.

Hans - i wasn´t and din´t want to be unpleasant. Why should i. I stated a fact. Other facts i stated was having used distributet computing, several VMs and as a Mac user being in the cloud anyway.
I just wanted to know !-exactly-! what you mean! I guess we cleared that now - but in fact it was Georg who answered the question i asked you several times!
If you feel offended by this statement of mine: sorry.

best, Klaus
Simplicity is the keynote of all true elegance. Coco Chanel

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