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PostPosted: Tue Jan 24, 2012 5:37 pm 
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tived wrote:
got that lens - to me its more of a gimic but i do sphears
lots of CA from memory

Hi Henrik!

I´m doing the most of my indoor pano work using this lens. I bought it because two very famous and successful photographers advised me to do.
It´s a great lens. The new one isn´t remarkably better. And using 8mm FE on fullframe you give up a lot of resolution!
So i don´t see any sense in a 8-15mm FE zoom. Around me many photographers are chasing after the last in stock 15mm FE!

But it might be a matter of taste also of course :cool: CAs are very low @f:8 or 11 and can be completely eliminated in Lightroom.
The lens really is very sharp! Ideal for a 21MPx fullframe.

see an example here: http://www.schloss-drachenburg.de/content/virtueller_rundgang/virtueller_rundgang.html

best, Klaus

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Last edited by klausesser on Tue Jan 24, 2012 6:07 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 24, 2012 10:07 pm 
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Hi... Using a VR Drive, if I wanted to capture a very high rez full sphere pano, meaning I could zoom in at great depth, would I be needing to use a zoom lens for this..?? if so, which one for my D90...??

Destiny..

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Primary School Teacher - Hobby Virtual Tours and 3D/360 Object/Product Photographer - Our aim is to create a 3D/360 Virtual Tour Shop/Store with links to 3D/360 degree products. My gear, VR Drive II - D90 - Nikon 10.5 fisheye - Nikon D800 with Nikon-Nikkor 14-24 - NOVOFLEX Magic Balance - Acratech GP Ball-head - Nodal Ninja 4 + RD-16 Rotor - Manfrotto 190CXPRO4 Carbon Fiber Tripod :) :)


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 24, 2012 10:31 pm 
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Destiny wrote:
Hi... Using a VR Drive, if I wanted to capture a very high rez full sphere pano, meaning I could zoom in at great depth, would I be needing to use a zoom lens for this..??

No - definitely not. You can do fine with a good prime lens.

Destiny wrote:
if so, which one for my D90...??

For DX i suggest 85mm (which equals 136mm on FF) or 50mm (which equals 80mm on FF)

Think about the amount of data - in special when you use HDR. That means a very capable computer!

When i use the 85mm on fullframe i get about 728 shots with 3-step- bracketing of 21MPx each . . .
The equirectangular image is about 13Gigabyte as .psb (you can´t use JPG or even TIFF with about 83000px width.
You can get it down to about 5-9 GB.

To get the same resolution on DX i guess you´d have to shoot more than 2000 pictures (can´t calculate at the moment).

The big advantage of prime-lenses here is that they´re wider open and usually perform better at 2 steps down than a zoom
(unless you pay VERY much money for the zoom).

best, Klaus

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Last edited by klausesser on Tue Jan 24, 2012 10:34 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 24, 2012 10:48 pm 
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Destiny wrote:
Hi... Using a VR Drive, if I wanted to capture a very high rez full sphere pano, meaning I could zoom in at great depth, would I be needing to use a zoom lens for this..?? if so, which one for my D90...??

Destiny..

You don't need a zoom in fact I think you'd be better off with a prime as Klaus said.

I suggest you start with the 50mm you already have and then if necessary work up from there.

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Many different Nodal Ninja and Agnos pano heads. Merlin/Panogear mount with Papywizard on Nokia Internet tablets.
Nikon D5100 and D40, Sigma 8mm f3.5 FE, Nikon 10.5mm FE, 35mm, 50mm, 18-55mm, 70-210mm. Promote control.


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 24, 2012 10:53 pm 
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Hi Andrew, it so nice to hear from you :).. The reason why I was asking about depth of zoom was to make a VR for the Police Forensic team.. They asked how detailed could I zoom into a small area... Or is it all down to the image size perhaps... The bigger the image, the more the pixels the greater the zoom factor.. Is this correct.. ??

Destiny..

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Primary School Teacher - Hobby Virtual Tours and 3D/360 Object/Product Photographer - Our aim is to create a 3D/360 Virtual Tour Shop/Store with links to 3D/360 degree products. My gear, VR Drive II - D90 - Nikon 10.5 fisheye - Nikon D800 with Nikon-Nikkor 14-24 - NOVOFLEX Magic Balance - Acratech GP Ball-head - Nodal Ninja 4 + RD-16 Rotor - Manfrotto 190CXPRO4 Carbon Fiber Tripod :) :)


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 24, 2012 11:20 pm 
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Destiny wrote:
Hi Andrew, it so nice to hear from you :).. The reason why I was asking about depth of zoom was to make a VR for the Police Forensic team.. They asked how detailed could I zoom into a small area... Or is it all down to the image size perhaps... The bigger the image, the more the pixels the greater the zoom factor.. Is this correct.. ??

Destiny..

Besides: using the 50mm on DX means about 223 shots (x3 with bracketing). Indoors you no way can use speed-mode (anyway speed-mode can´t work with bracketing - how shoud that work :cool:).
With these amounts of releases a motorized head providing xml is essential.
Definitely essential is mirror-locking because you face exp. times which demands that.

And: yes - the bigger the image, the longer the focal-length, the more the pixels the greater the zoom factor. But shooting such a big image means getting in trouble with the DOF very fast - especially indoors - due to the focal-length relative to the shooting-distances. So you either use a small aperture and hyperfocal values or shoot several - absolutely identical - spheres after each other with different focus-ranges. Theses you can combine to a focus range with great DOF by using Helicon Focus for example.

Welcome to a very challenging business . . ;):cool:

best, Klaus

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Last edited by klausesser on Tue Jan 24, 2012 11:21 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Wed Jan 25, 2012 1:19 am 
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emm Yes, it appears I have entered a business with more and more challenges to overcome.. I guess if I work hard enough on it I will understand more and more.. I bow to your superior knowledge on DOF and hyperfocal values.. I have used software that can deal with helicon focusing when I became interested in micro photography of bugs and flowers etc.. http://www.heliconsoft.com/heliconfocus.html

This software is ok if the bug doesn’t move.. Since the hyperfocal distance is the sharpest point, it was necessary to move the focal point to capture the hyperfocal point distance within all the areaa of the flower or bug to keep it as sharp as possible from all focal points.. Sometimes up to twenty or more photos to use for focus stacking.. This software allowed me to create sharp focused image.. Like Henrik say.. I am to use all tools at my disposal to do the job.. Sounds good to me..

Klaus, you obviously possess great knowledge and skills in this area which are always good to know and learn from, I can see that in your latest pano.. http://s341703522.online.de/Drachen/

I look forward to the day when I can buy a 300mm... Perhaps try it out on my VR Drive.. BTW, I will not be considering speed mode with my camera, since there is no mirror stabiliser.. I will not even be getting HDR since my camera will not do it.. Therefore, just Quality mode for now..

Destiny..

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Primary School Teacher - Hobby Virtual Tours and 3D/360 Object/Product Photographer - Our aim is to create a 3D/360 Virtual Tour Shop/Store with links to 3D/360 degree products. My gear, VR Drive II - D90 - Nikon 10.5 fisheye - Nikon D800 with Nikon-Nikkor 14-24 - NOVOFLEX Magic Balance - Acratech GP Ball-head - Nodal Ninja 4 + RD-16 Rotor - Manfrotto 190CXPRO4 Carbon Fiber Tripod :) :)


Last edited by Destiny on Wed Jan 25, 2012 2:34 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Wed Jan 25, 2012 2:42 am 
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Hi Klaus

what lens did you use for this http://s341703522.online.de/Drachen/ ?

Destiny, I am only interested in the VR II for use with lens's of 300mm f/2.8 and greater, otherwise a manual head can handle everything less from 200mm and below with a NN R16 rotar in landscape

adding multi bracketing for HDR adds to the complexity as there you may use very slow shutter speed with the risk of camera shake, add multi-focusing to this as well and you are really looking for a very complex operation where many things can go wrong, here a motor-head could do well, but if you are out in the enviroment (Aussie Outback) then it is not always steady friendly ;-) as in the chance for your rig to vibrate is great.

To me there is no point in getting the VR without the HDR and Speed option, the light here in Oz is far too harsh - you are stuck between a rock and a very hard place here - there is no compromise its all the way or the highway!!!

Also if one is considering the really long lens's such as 600 and 800mm maybe the Clauss is a better option with its dual arms and craddle holding the gear in as oppose to just a single arm with a lot of weight on one side only!!!!
I could be wrong, maybe Klaus can test it on Josef's head if there is any slack using really heavy rigs?

Henrik


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 25, 2012 6:03 am 
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oh hum Henrik.. I realise what you are saying.. and I agree 100%, but I cannot buy an fx camera on the list of HDR compatible.. To me the VR Drive is more important.. The thing is.. I get very confused sometimes when I am capturing images using the NN4 when I comes to bracketing.. and when my wireless remote died last time I had to capture by pressing the button down since you cannot do bracketing using the inferred remote, as a consequence the stitching errors were huge.. I also missed some shots all together... I was getting a bit of pressure from the owner of shop to get it done quick... So am buying the VR Drive mostly for indoors and some outdoors.. I really do not have the lenses to do outdoors/outback.. I want to go in and press the remote button and it goes.. I would also not be using Speed mode.. My camera does not have mirror stabiliser so not a good idea, I really do not think its going to be useful with HDR anyway.. I feel that in time when i can afford the fx camera I will upgrade the to the HDR software .. I feel HDR will be very useful but I do not do the landscapes like you do... I feel LDR will be fine for what I want to do at the moment.. Speed mode would be great for moving objects but not good for bracketing.. My thought anyway...

I have other things I want to try.. My 3D within a pano I feel will have great value.. I need to spend some money on setting that up.. I will put a test demo up for you to see soon.. I really feel that just panning round a scene is not good enough.. I want to be able to goto an object within the scene and walk round and zoom in on it in great detail.. I have all the technical issues solved.. I know how to do it and I have writing java script too.. If I can do the MoB (Museum of Brisbane) as a showcase then I will be set.. I will do art galleries and other museum using the same technique.. You know me and my crazy interactive stuff. It has to pay off one day... I was known for my crazy innovativeness during my Dip Multimedia course.. I won DUX scoring 99.9%. To-date, no one has beaten that.. ;)

... and, I hope you have plan B sorted like me... 20mil on the PowerBall.. LOL...

Destiny....

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Primary School Teacher - Hobby Virtual Tours and 3D/360 Object/Product Photographer - Our aim is to create a 3D/360 Virtual Tour Shop/Store with links to 3D/360 degree products. My gear, VR Drive II - D90 - Nikon 10.5 fisheye - Nikon D800 with Nikon-Nikkor 14-24 - NOVOFLEX Magic Balance - Acratech GP Ball-head - Nodal Ninja 4 + RD-16 Rotor - Manfrotto 190CXPRO4 Carbon Fiber Tripod :) :)


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 25, 2012 7:27 am 
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Recently I have noticed a few more motorised pano head.. I just wonder how many of these unit the market can take.. I guess this one is more suited for video since it can support a large weight... http://www.fx-motion.com/vr-one-robotic-head

Destiny..

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Primary School Teacher - Hobby Virtual Tours and 3D/360 Object/Product Photographer - Our aim is to create a 3D/360 Virtual Tour Shop/Store with links to 3D/360 degree products. My gear, VR Drive II - D90 - Nikon 10.5 fisheye - Nikon D800 with Nikon-Nikkor 14-24 - NOVOFLEX Magic Balance - Acratech GP Ball-head - Nodal Ninja 4 + RD-16 Rotor - Manfrotto 190CXPRO4 Carbon Fiber Tripod :) :)


Last edited by Destiny on Wed Jan 25, 2012 7:27 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Wed Jan 25, 2012 11:03 am 
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well, you are a little disadvantaged by using Nikon, the bracketing and trickering is a bit fiddly, this probably where the ProMote comes into play and will be a greater asset to you now. But for now I would get a long cable release(CR) and when you have the shutter on Continous all you have to do on your CR is to hold the shutter in and it will fire all the shots in your series of brackets, at least that is what we are doing on the D3s and friends D7100. On the Canon I just set to 2 sec timer and wait, then its done I know I can move on. However the promote is definately on my own wish list.

As for your Fx-motion, is not for the out doors unless you are also will to carry a large battery-pack :-)

Doing the HDR Panos does require that you keep your eyes on the ball at all time, at Xmas I missed a shot because someone - ok my partner - came up and started to talk to me during this large pano of the sunset at the Stirling Ranges, it was beautiful, except I have a missing image in it :-( ...went back a weeek later and it was overcasted every day....booo not happy
:-) I have plan B every week ;-)
The 3D if done properly will be a nice feature, just remember what ever you have a go at, do it well and when you can manage and control it, then you can move on to the next big thing - if you have too many loose ends you will end up with nothing at the end. I am not saying that you do not know what you are doing, just that it will get more and more complicated. But hey this is what we live for.... so go girl! and Happy Aussie Day for tomorrow! :-)

Henrik


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 25, 2012 12:13 pm 
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Promote is great.. I can take heaps of bracketed shots with it even with my D90.. amazing.. and it can also do time-laps photography and ...also focus bracketing too.. I used this feature for insects and flowers.. I also bought a green chroma backdrop.. No good to be honest for taking photos against, it reflects into things and causes issues.. Blue always seemed better to me.. less issues.. They use the pure blue 255 and pure green 255. The green is good with Promote since you can put any background image on..

On my camera I cannot set to timer and bracketed.. same as the infrared.. it won't do it.. I could use a cable but I like the remote.. I will get the new GIgtube II when its available..

You see the thing is.. I am not capturing HDR.. I am doing LDR.. very different.. You cannot do HDR with my camera without extra software. Its a bit of a misconception.. I guess you can call it HDR but its never the same.. You need a camera that can do at least 5, 8 better; shots with Maximum EV range with AEB of 8+, with an option of steps of 1-+. This will achieve great HDR results.. But my D90 will not do this.. I need an full-frame Nikon.. I am not saying it cannot do it at all .. What I am saying is, it will be limited and so will the results.. It is more suited to LDR.. Well, thats the way I see it.. With LDR you only need 3 bracketed images..

eemm... missting images.. doesn't that just pee you off.. I have had some great results, but its ends up with a black patch.. Missing image!! Cannot wait for my VR Drive..

I am sooo determined about our interactive 3D.. It will work I am sure.. I have it almost all sussed and worked out.. It will not be tacky.. I have tested some tacky stuff in a pano's just to see if it works.. Some people make too big an issue over the graphic itself rather than the merit of the how the graphic actually works which was the aim of it.. My aim is to have either windows that opens inside the pano with the 3D walk-round or a new url to a new page with a text description and perhaps other images. I guess I can do both.. I will be using techniques used by the movie industry which will result in very smooth image panning.. Reflection from glass will be my main issue when it comes to display cabinets. This is also where the wide angle will come into my thoughts, probably the 12-24... Sharp and wide.. and suited for use with my D90. If I can pull it off, it will be my niche in this very competitive market..

I live by the motto.. "Nothing happens unless I make it happen".. So, I will make it happen.. :)

Yes Henrik... You too have a great Australia day.. Baby has been waving Aussie flags around all day... :lol::lol:.. We live in the best country in the world.. ;)

Destiny...

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Primary School Teacher - Hobby Virtual Tours and 3D/360 Object/Product Photographer - Our aim is to create a 3D/360 Virtual Tour Shop/Store with links to 3D/360 degree products. My gear, VR Drive II - D90 - Nikon 10.5 fisheye - Nikon D800 with Nikon-Nikkor 14-24 - NOVOFLEX Magic Balance - Acratech GP Ball-head - Nodal Ninja 4 + RD-16 Rotor - Manfrotto 190CXPRO4 Carbon Fiber Tripod :) :)


Last edited by Destiny on Wed Jan 25, 2012 12:21 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Wed Jan 25, 2012 1:20 pm 
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u need to be at least 15 feet away from your blue/green screen

H


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 25, 2012 2:08 pm 
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tived wrote:
Hi Klaus
what lens did you use for this http://s341703522.online.de/Drachen/ ?

Hey Henrik!

I paste my answer from the other thread:

--------

I did my shot using Josef´s head with xml files. In a first experiment i used different focusing on the foreground - but the foreground was too close for a 300mm: between 3m and 10m.
So i used a fixed focus - i wanted to have an unsharp foreground.

Basically i would make a shot like yours - which i like much! - with changing focus slightly (!) from foreground to the hyperfocal distance. Changing focus too much results in too big scaling-differences for the stitcher and you´d need to do focus-stacking.

I never use AF or another automatic. Fixed WB, fixed exposure - and always RAW.

Josef´s head is extremely sturdy and weights about 4Kilograms. So long exposure is not a problem at all even with 300mm or 600/800mm. Essential is a mirror-lock before each exposure. Josef added a motion-sensor which detects the slightest shaking. It´s switchable of course and we´re adjusting it´s sensitvity at the moment. So we can set a short "dead-time" and the sensor gives a "go" after any kind of shaking is gone. That saves fractions of a second - firing the camera about 700 times for a mosaic or a highres sphere this means a lot of time.

I stopped 2,3minutes for a 700MPx sphere using a 35mm lens on ff. That´s not "speed-mode" but definitely ensures sharp images even using 1/60sec instead of 1/1500sec . . .

best, Klaus

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PostPosted: Wed Jan 25, 2012 2:32 pm 
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Destiny wrote:
If I can do the MoB (Museum of Brisbane) as a showcase then I will be set.. I will do art galleries and other museum using the same technique..

This one means to cope with legal-problems! We did a very famous art-museum here. Made a fine tour for them - and then faced big legal issues because it would have cost the museum much money
to get the permissions for showing the art-objects on the web because of copyrights. So we had to care not to show art-objects - and that meant to leave away 80% of the tour . . :-(

http://www.360impressions.de/Tourk21.html

You NEED to have a written contract with EACH artist whose work is shown resp. an organisation which handles those things for the artists. That might cost much money.

You´re definitely not allowed to show artist´s work on the web without permission.

Art-galleries have the right to publish photographs of the artwork they show for the time the show runs. But after that they don´t have the right no longer. So: if they make a site on which they show the art-work they exhibited they have to pay to the artist rep. their organisation.

For that reason it´s complicated to sell 360° panos to museums and art-galleries.

If the artist is dead longer than 70 years it´s esier. So a museum of ancient art makes lesser problems . . .

In the times of WWW copyrights get more and more complicated. To ignore them can be very expensive . . .

best, Klaus

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PostPosted: Wed Jan 25, 2012 2:52 pm 
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Destiny wrote:
Recently I have noticed a few more motorised pano head.. I just wonder how many of these unit the market can take.. I guess this one is more suited for video since it can support a large weight... http://www.fx-motion.com/vr-one-robotic-head

Destiny..

As i originally come from the movie-business (in an earlier life :cool: i was a cameraman): this is a head for video-cameras on dollies, cranes and so on in the studio. I guess one could use it for panorama-photography also. But i know the gadget´s prices in this business - and i would guess a price around 10000.-$ and more for this device . . . basing on my experiences.

There are three to four motorized heads on the market: Dr. Clauss, Seitz, Gigapan - and Josef´s head when it´s launched.

The problem: designing and building a GOOD head means lots of skills and also means lots of cost. Once it´s finished the problem of cost-effective production in small numbers remains.

best, Klaus

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PostPosted: Wed Jan 25, 2012 3:50 pm 
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tived wrote:
u need to be at least 15 feet away from your blue/green screen

H

No - not at all :cool:

The essential thing: good software. The software has an option called "spill remove". "Spill" means the reflecting color from the green-/blue-/red-screen which can be seen on the object. It can be compensated completely.

Second essential is an even light on the background and also the need of having clear contours at the object.

I suggest to use dedicated chroma-key applications. In PremierePro, AfterEffect, FinalCut, Shake, Combustion and many other editors chroma-keyers are built in.

As stand-alone apps i sugest PrimatteKeyer or Ultimatte ( afaik Ultimatte´s AdvantEdge is not supported any more due to their hardware-keyers).
http://www.redgiantsoftware.com/products/all/primatte-keyer/
http://www.mediacollege.com/glossary/c/chroma-key.html

best, Klaus

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Last edited by klausesser on Wed Jan 25, 2012 3:53 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Wed Jan 25, 2012 4:12 pm 
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Destiny wrote:
I live by the motto.. "Nothing happens unless I make it happen".. So, I will make it happen.. :)

Good motto!

But don´t forget: photography under a commercial/professional aspect needs a (!) very good (!) professional photographical education.

Digital photography makes the whole thing look very easy. As long as you do it as a hobby it is easy indeed - that´s why many people overestimate themselves as soon as they own equipment.
But when you start to earn your living with photography you need to know perfectly every detail of what you´re talking about.

Don´t feel offended please: that is not the case here - everybody can realize that by reading what you write.

i srongly sugest to dig deeper into the details before going to present yourself to potential clients as a commercial/professional photographer.

"You never get a second chance to make a first impression". That´s true!

Again: please don´t feel offended - i´m just realistic.

best, Klaus

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 26, 2012 12:03 am 
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tived wrote:
u need to be at least 15 feet away from your blue/green screen

H

Hi!

I made an example which shows that a close distance between foreground and background work very well
using Primatte Keyer:

Images (foregrd. and backgrd.) provided by Primatte Composing made by me.

best, Klaus





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Last edited by klausesser on Thu Jan 26, 2012 12:05 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 26, 2012 3:10 am 
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Ya, I just assumed that NKRomote had Spill Remove when I bought it.. for what it cost I think its expensive.... You can remove the green spill in Photoshop but oh man.. Its not as if you can just micro it... If its just one image then ok, you can fix it up, but if it a sequence, or lots of images then ouch.. Its a matter of using Clip Masks and Slip Layers.. and a lot of painting skills in using the Hue brush.. When we where doing green chroma at TAFE we had to do it this way since it was part of the course requirement... There is nothing like software that can fix the spill, more so on reflective items... I will have to look at getting PrimatteKeyer, its seems to be a lot more professional.. The blue did not seem to spill so much but blue has different issue..

...and Klaus.. I am not offended.. I just don't get your continued pessimism in what I am trying to do.. If it wasn't for people with vision and the enthusiasm or willingness to try, we as humans would never progress. I realise there will be obstacles to overcome, but I am up to the challenge.. I guess when people like Kolor decide to develop panoramic software, they too had a vision and now people like you and me are able to reap the rewards of their efforts.. I guess it must be a humanistic thing to do, since many of our greatest inventors throughout the ages have been mocked or put down before they have even give it a try.. Rumours have it... and its only a rumour mind you; suggest that the world is not flat after all.. How dare they go and have a look... They might fall off the edge!! The difference between me and you.. I will be the one that tries to find the edge of the world.. ;) .. and no offence intended..!

I totally agree there will be issues with contemporary works of art.. My view is that the artist need to be a bit more open mined since this is an opportunity to showcase there work so the public are aware of where to go to view it, and perhaps buy it.. But the way it works with having to get permission, which is ok, but its the payment of the showcasing of the artwork that I don't get.. Surely they would benefit more if more people knew about their work.. This is why most artist artist are poor, also this is also why many art gallerias around the world struggle with funding.. The Museum of Brisbane was on TV the other day concerned by the lack of patrons to their Museum. I agree with you that there are copyright issues, however, I will try to stick with ancient artworks etc which will have fewer issues.. There are lots of little museums around where I can try this with no issues.. I have two lined up with permission from the local councils.. One is an old railway steam engine museum and the other is a 2000 year old building in Sydney.. These days photography is getting to be a hard task, since in Australia we cannot even go to the local swimming pool and take photos, or many of the public beaches, or many public areas where children are present. Even when we have a school play to perform, if one parent complains all parent must stop taking photos.. We have to get parents to fill in a dozen forms before we can even show their on our web site for receiving an award.. NO parent is allowed to take photos at our swimming carnivals.. The world has gone silly.. No memories to look back on..

You know, as the story goes, it was Xerox engineers who were the ones that came up with the very first image Windows/Mac featured graphics on a computer.. Their directors suggested that there was no value in it at all, so they were told to drop the idea and move on.......

Destiny...

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Primary School Teacher - Hobby Virtual Tours and 3D/360 Object/Product Photographer - Our aim is to create a 3D/360 Virtual Tour Shop/Store with links to 3D/360 degree products. My gear, VR Drive II - D90 - Nikon 10.5 fisheye - Nikon D800 with Nikon-Nikkor 14-24 - NOVOFLEX Magic Balance - Acratech GP Ball-head - Nodal Ninja 4 + RD-16 Rotor - Manfrotto 190CXPRO4 Carbon Fiber Tripod :) :)


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 26, 2012 3:12 am 
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Nice example.. Thanks for showing this..

Destiny...

klausesser wrote:
tived wrote:
u need to be at least 15 feet away from your blue/green screen

H

Hi!

I made an example which shows that a close distance between foreground and background work very well
using Primatte Keyer:

Images (foregrd. and backgrd.) provided by Primatte Composing made by me.

best, Klaus

_________________
Primary School Teacher - Hobby Virtual Tours and 3D/360 Object/Product Photographer - Our aim is to create a 3D/360 Virtual Tour Shop/Store with links to 3D/360 degree products. My gear, VR Drive II - D90 - Nikon 10.5 fisheye - Nikon D800 with Nikon-Nikkor 14-24 - NOVOFLEX Magic Balance - Acratech GP Ball-head - Nodal Ninja 4 + RD-16 Rotor - Manfrotto 190CXPRO4 Carbon Fiber Tripod :) :)


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 26, 2012 4:41 am 
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Destiny wrote:
Ya, I just assumed that NKRomote had Spill Remove when I bought it.. for what it cost I think its expensive.... You can remove the green spill in Photoshop but oh man.. Its not as if you can just micro it... If its just one image then ok, you can fix it up, but if it a sequence, or lots of images then ouch.. Its a matter of using Clip Masks and Slip Layers.. and a lot of painting skills in using the Hue brush.. When we where doing green chroma at TAFE we had to do it this way since it was part of the course requirement... There is nothing like software that can fix the spill, more so on reflective items... I will have to look at getting PrimatteKeyer, its seems to be a lot more professional.. The blue did not seem to spill so much but blue has different issue..

It´s a bit tricky: on one hand you need a well-lit background for keying - on the other hand doing that you get a lot of spill . . :D
My experiences show that keying phototographs you need a different lighting as with video - but you need images of high resolution for getting real good alphas. So i use small blue-/greenscreens which are just a bit bigger than the object´s contours close to the object. This way you get lesser spill.
Often i just have a piece of cartoon-greenscreen held by an assistant´s hand right behind a person for getting a god mask for the person´s hair.
For video you usually need wider screens because of moving objects - on the other hand spill isn´t so visible as it is in photographs.

Destiny wrote:
...and Klaus.. I am not offended.. I just don't get your continued pessimism in what I am trying to do.. If it wasn't for people with vision and the enthusiasm or willingness to try, we as humans would never progress.

No, Destiny - i´m not pessimistic at all! But i´m used to tell my assistants and other people who want to enter the business the facts. This is a business which doesn´t base on dreams - but on skills. On knowledge. You have to be absolutely sure to be able to handle the situation when you enter a location - whatever it is. Otherwise you´re lost. It´s that simple. Clients "smell" when you´re uneasy - it makes THEM uneasy.

My mother (she had her own TV-show in the ´60s) always says "if you don´t reach for the stars - you´ll not even get to the moon" . . :cool: And she´s damn right!

But even to get to the moon you need to be very professional . . . not to speak from reaching the stars :cool:

There are zillions of people who try to make a living with panos - and the only chance you have to be ahead of your competitors is the quality of your work. Your knowledge and your skills must be high to deal with situations - even unexpected ones. You need to impress people with quality and spirit rather than with equipment - that´s what i meant.

Destiny wrote:
I realise there will be obstacles to overcome, but I am up to the challenge.. I guess when people like Kolor decide to develop panoramic software, they too had a vision and now people like you and me are able to reap the rewards of their efforts.. I guess it must be a humanistic thing to do, since many of our greatest inventors throughout the ages have been mocked or put down before they have even give it a try.. Rumours have it... and its only a rumour mind you; suggest that the world is not flat after all.. How dare they go and have a look... They might fall off the edge!! The difference between me and you.. I will be the one that tries to find the edge of the world.. ;) .. and no offence intended..!

I totally agree there will be issues with contemporary works of art.. My view is that the artist need to be a bit more open mined since this is an opportunity to showcase there work so the public are aware of where to go to view it, and perhaps buy it.. But the way it works with having to get permission, which is ok, but its the payment of the showcasing of the artwork that I don't get.. Surely they would benefit more if more people knew about their work.. This is why most artist artist are poor, also this is also why many art gallerias around the world struggle with funding.. The Museum of Brisbane was on TV the other day concerned by the lack of patrons to their Museum. I agree with you that there are copyright issues, however, I will try to stick with ancient artworks etc which will have fewer issues.. There are lots of little museums around where I can try this with no issues.. I have two lined up with permission from the local councils.. One is an old railway steam engine museum and the other is a 2000 year old building in Sydney.. These days photography is getting to be a hard task, since in Australia we cannot even go to the local swimming pool and take photos, or many of the public beaches, or many public areas where children are present. Even when we have a school play to perform, if one parent complains all parent must stop taking photos.. We have to get parents to fill in a dozen forms before we can even show their on our web site for receiving an award.. NO parent is allowed to take photos at our swimming carnivals.. The world has gone silly.. No memories to look back on..

You know, as the story goes, it was Xerox engineers who were the ones that came up with the very first image Windows/Mac featured graphics on a computer.. Their directors suggested that there was no value in it at all, so they were told to drop the idea and move on.......

Destiny...

This whole legal stuff with photographs and also with music really has become a mess. It´s getting more and more complicated and disgusting. Today you not even can do a school-class party with more than 20 people and having music without paying a fee to an institution which is named "GEMA" here . . and i guess it´s the same thing all over the world these days.

We also argued that the artists must be interested to have their work shown in excellent panoramas from famous museums and galleries.
These institutions which handles legal-things for them don´t get it. And as long as the artist have contracts with them you have to pay for every time the art-work is shown in a pano or photo.

For that reason galleries and museums act very reluctant when it comes to VR.

It´s all a reaction to worldwide piracy on music and on images, i guess.

best to you, Klaus

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 26, 2012 5:54 am 
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Now thats nicer klaus.. ;) More positive with objective statements rather than being personal.. ;).. I guess I am just so spoilt from getting so much positive and optimistic feedback from family and friends...

I have chatted to some artist who actually do not agree with the situation.. They believe its only cutting their own throat. The lack of pictorial advertising means the less chance of anyone coming to check their artwork out, all because they are grabbing at pennies rather than $$$. A pano tour does not showcase the artwork as it would by actually standing in front of it.. Its just a virtual tour, a passing journey through the gallery.. A medium to attract an audience. its just a reflection of the artwork to show others; it's there for show or to buy. At the Bunderburg art gallery, an artist was going to sue the gallery for NOT showcasing his artwork in their flyer or program.. It was a case of they could not find him to get his permission..

WIth the the panoramic medium, probably one out of many hundreds actually make any money out of it... But, its those many hundreds of people that make it possible to develop software and hardware at an affordable price to those few that actually make money out of it.. eemm.. I guess that means you should be nice to me since its by virue of me buying all this stuff that reduces your costs :lol::lol::lol::lol:

Destiny...

PS... What really annoys me is the fact that many artist actually get Art funding from the State and Federal Government to make the artwork. I believe there should be a bit of public ownership to their artwork since it's Tax Payers money they are getting, and in some cases, it's wasted with things like 'White On White background' for which the artist got $10.000Aus in pubic funding from the Arts Council to paint it.....

_________________
Primary School Teacher - Hobby Virtual Tours and 3D/360 Object/Product Photographer - Our aim is to create a 3D/360 Virtual Tour Shop/Store with links to 3D/360 degree products. My gear, VR Drive II - D90 - Nikon 10.5 fisheye - Nikon D800 with Nikon-Nikkor 14-24 - NOVOFLEX Magic Balance - Acratech GP Ball-head - Nodal Ninja 4 + RD-16 Rotor - Manfrotto 190CXPRO4 Carbon Fiber Tripod :) :)


Last edited by Destiny on Thu Jan 26, 2012 6:08 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 26, 2012 1:46 pm 
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Destiny wrote:
Now thats nicer klaus.. ;) More positive with objective statements rather than being personal.. ;).. I guess I am just so spoilt from getting so much positive and optimistic feedback from family and friends...

The problem is: too often objective statements are taken personal . . :cool:

Optimistic feedbacks from family and friends are vital. But not objective . . :P;)

best, Klaus

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 26, 2012 9:36 pm 
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:lol::lol::lol:............................................:|..............................:(....................................:P!

Destiny

klausesser wrote:
Destiny wrote:
Now thats nicer klaus.. ;) More positive with objective statements rather than being personal.. ;).. I guess I am just so spoilt from getting so much positive and optimistic feedback from family and friends...

The problem is: too often objective statements are taken personal . . :cool:

Optimistic feedbacks from family and friends are vital. But not objective . . :P;)

best, Klaus

_________________
Primary School Teacher - Hobby Virtual Tours and 3D/360 Object/Product Photographer - Our aim is to create a 3D/360 Virtual Tour Shop/Store with links to 3D/360 degree products. My gear, VR Drive II - D90 - Nikon 10.5 fisheye - Nikon D800 with Nikon-Nikkor 14-24 - NOVOFLEX Magic Balance - Acratech GP Ball-head - Nodal Ninja 4 + RD-16 Rotor - Manfrotto 190CXPRO4 Carbon Fiber Tripod :) :)


Last edited by Destiny on Thu Jan 26, 2012 9:37 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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