Roundshot VR Drive 2  

In the panorama field, hardware is also part of the success. You can discuss here about it: camera, computer, pano head, anything
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Brines
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by Brines » Fri Jun 10, 2011 3:55 pm

Urs got back to me regarding the newtonmeter and the use of heavy lenses. Here is what he said:

"Hi Devin,

Thank you for your message and interest in our Roundshot VR Drive.

The torque according to the data sheet of the motor manufacturer is 28 mNm (=0.028 Newtonmeter).

The VR Drive can lift very heavy loads. One of our customers is going to do a test this weekend with a 8kg lens.

We will keep you posted on the results.

If the load is distributed more towards the outside then of course the required torque is higher.

We are currently implementing the .xml files. As for all our developments we cannot give a precise date of when this will be released.

Yes, all our customers will be able to update their software to enable the .xml output.

Many thanks,

Urs"

EDIT:

I'm a little bit shocked by how low the VR Drive 2's Newtonmeter is compared to that of Josef's head. I'm hoping somebody who knows more on the matter can shed some light on it.

Does anyone know what the Newtonmeter is for the different Rodeon VR Heads, or how much weight they might be able to handle? I'm not sure I understand the difference between them and the Rodeon VR Station.

Cheers guys,
Devin
Last edited by Brines on Fri Jun 10, 2011 4:26 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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by leifs » Fri Jun 10, 2011 5:37 pm

Maybe Josef is measuring torque after the gearing.
4 newtonmeter is a lot. The motor in a small car has a torque in the range 50-100 Nm.

Leif
Olympus OM-D E-M1, Leica 25mm f1.4, fisheye, zooms, primes
Seitz VRdrive2
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by Studio VR » Sat Jun 11, 2011 1:35 pm

Today i tested the new VR Drive II with my Canon 300 2.8 lens mounted on a 1D Mark IV. This combo weights more then 4 kilogram. The VR Drive II did handle this combo very well (both motors, the x & y motor rotated the combo very well, it looked very smooth). I mounted the y-motor at a 90Ëš angle on the VR Bracket (see page 18 of the VR drive II manual on the website of Seitz). I also mounted the y motor at it lowest position, to get the most stable mounting. You have to be carefull that the lens doesnot hits the VR bracket is you let the camera turn down to much. To get more space you should mount the y-motor at a higher position. But this test was just to see if the drive could the the load. And i can tell you it did take the load without any problem. I made a simple animation of it.

Would i use this combo to take a Giga Pixels, i don't know, i did not make a Gigapan at this time. But i think i would use another lens, like the new Canon 70-300. It much lighter and smaller and has a very good image quality.


Last edited by Studio VR on Sat Jun 11, 2011 1:38 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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by Brines » Sat Jun 11, 2011 4:29 pm

leifs wrote:Maybe Josef is measuring torque after the gearing.
4 newtonmeter is a lot. The motor in a small car has a torque in the range 50-100 Nm.

Leif

Thanks for the info, VR Studio!

Do you suppose the VR Drive 2's was measured before the gearing? Would that mean the VR Drive 2 would have a higher Newtonmeter after gearing? I'm not at all familiar with this.

Thanks,
Devin
Last edited by Brines on Sat Jun 11, 2011 4:30 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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by klausesser » Sat Jun 11, 2011 4:35 pm

leifs wrote:Maybe Josef is measuring torque after the gearing.
4 newtonmeter is a lot. The motor in a small car has a torque in the range 50-100 Nm.

Leif

Yesterday Josef gave me the second version of the head. He now has implemented into the controller an option to choose 1Nm and 4Nm. 1Nm is faster and 4Nm is a little slower but stronger (meant for vertical). I mounted the same lens as you did - Canon 2,8/300mm - and a 2,8/400mm from a friend. Camera was an 1DsMk3 and a 5D2. Guess it was about 6-8kg after all. No problem - the head definitely can take more and is still fast and accurate.

best, Klaus
Simplicity is the keynote of all true elegance. Coco Chanel

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by tived » Sat Jun 11, 2011 5:07 pm

Hi Klaus,

Any news on price and availability ?

Henrik

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by klausesser » Sat Jun 11, 2011 5:12 pm

tived wrote:Hi Klaus,

Any news on price and availability ?

Henrik

Availability i guess in about two months - people who manufacture the rails and mechanical parts are still calculating for small series. Price i leave to Josef :-) !

I´ll do some more videos over the weekend.

best, Klaus
Simplicity is the keynote of all true elegance. Coco Chanel

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by tived » Sat Jun 11, 2011 5:17 pm

Great thanks

Henrik

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by klausesser » Sat Jun 11, 2011 5:23 pm

i forewarded the thread to Josef- maybe he´ll tells some things.

best, Klaus
Simplicity is the keynote of all true elegance. Coco Chanel

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by leifs » Sat Jun 11, 2011 9:21 pm

the picture shows a torque wrench. to illustrate 4 newtonmeter:
put 4kg in a distance of 1m horisontally from the bolt
then you need 4 newtonmeter to rotate the bolt upwards.
this can also be achieved by using a smaller fast motor, e.g. 0.04Nm geared 100:1.
Thats what my VR I Drive do (I don't know the actual torque or gearing).
It's like a swiss clockwork :-)

Leif


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by josefgraessle » Mon Jun 13, 2011 11:20 am

The 4Nm are appr. 0.4kg on a lever of 1meter, as 1kg is 9,81N. The torque should be meassured after the gearbox, as this is what you really get. So the motor torque must be multiplied by the gearbox ratio and reduced by the loss of friction you have in the gearbox. The friction depends on the kind of gears and the lubrication. So really useful torque figures can be found only by meassuring.

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by leifs » Mon Jun 13, 2011 10:23 pm

josefgraessle wrote:The torque should be meassured after the gearbox, as this is what you really get.

Agree. I missed the gravitation. Sorry Newton !

Leif
Olympus OM-D E-M1, Leica 25mm f1.4, fisheye, zooms, primes
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by klausesser » Mon Jun 13, 2011 11:14 pm

leifs wrote:Sorry Newton !

(very deep voice coming from the sky): "Baahh - c´mon . . . don´t worry, be happy!" :cool:

best, Klaus ( i didn´t even know a Newton Meter exists! :lol:)
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by Studio VR » Sun Jun 19, 2011 9:15 pm

Today i had some spare time and played with the speed mode of the new vr drive 2 ( with x- and y motor). I took my 5d mark 2 and put a 50 mm lens on it. I put the vr drive in speed mode (6sec.). Also i made a full spherical giga pano. Then i started the drive. It took 55 seconds to complete the full pano, only problem my canon 5d mark 2 couldn't keep up with it. The buffer ran full in raw as in jpg mode........ To complete the pano you should have 104 images.

Ok, then i tried it with my 1d mark 4 (1.3 crop camera) with the 50 mm, to complete the pano you have to take 168 images. It took the vr drive 72 seconds to complete the pano. The 1d mark 4 also couldn't keep up with drive in raw mode. But in jpg mode it was not a problem at all.

So, conclusion, the speed mode is nice, but it asked a lot of your camera gear, also the conditions have to be very good, you must have good light conditions. In the above test the shutter time was 1/1600, iso 640, f 4. I took the test in my garden with sunny conditions.

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by olihar » Tue Jun 21, 2011 11:57 am

Studio VR wrote:Today i had some spare time and played with the speed mode of the new vr drive 2 ( with x- and y motor). I took my 5d mark 2 and put a 50 mm lens on it. I put the vr drive in speed mode (6sec.). Also i made a full spherical giga pano. Then i started the drive. It took 55 seconds to complete the full pano, only problem my canon 5d mark 2 couldn't keep up with it. The buffer ran full in raw as in jpg mode........ To complete the pano you should have 104 images.

Ok, then i tried it with my 1d mark 4 (1.3 crop camera) with the 50 mm, to complete the pano you have to take 168 images. It took the vr drive 72 seconds to complete the pano. The 1d mark 4 also couldn't keep up with drive in raw mode. But in jpg mode it was not a problem at all.

So, conclusion, the speed mode is nice, but it asked a lot of your camera gear, also the conditions have to be very good, you must have good light conditions. In the above test the shutter time was 1/1600, iso 640, f 4. I took the test in my garden with sunny conditions.

That is very very fast, What different speed settings are there, can you make it 1/2, 1/4.... slower?

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by Studio VR » Tue Jun 21, 2011 3:52 pm

Hello Olihar,

I set the speed to 6 seconds, this is the fastest time for the vr drive II. You can set any speed between 6 and 9999 seconds.
So its possible the reduce the speed with 1/2 or 1/4.

Greetings,

Ivo

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by Brines » Sun Jun 26, 2011 5:55 pm

Hey guys,

I'm looking to move 8kg of weight with this head, and my plan is, to create panoramas, shoot columns instead of rows--which would mean more up and down movement than left and right. For this, will it be problematic that the Y-motor on the head is so much weaker than the X-motor? Any advice would be so helpful.

Thank you,
Devin

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by mediavets » Sun Jul 24, 2011 6:39 am

gddxb wrote:I'm not fussed about the sky (so nor should you be) - that's not what I was concerned about here. It was more a case of just trying out the head and creating my first spherical pano.

http://dxbae.com/krptest2/%5bGroup%201%5d-IX0F7778_IX0F8248-471%20images.html

(please do not share this link outside this thread).

Firefox 4.x on Windows XP/32 is displaying errors:


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Many different Nodal Ninja and Agnos pano heads. Merlin/Panogear mount with Papywizard on Nokia Internet tablets.
Nikon D5100 and D40, Sigma 8mm f3.5 FE, Nikon 10.5mm FE, 35mm, 50mm, 18-55mm, 70-210mm. Promote control.

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by jl-kol » Mon Jul 25, 2011 3:31 pm

Greetings from Bath UK.
I recently bought a roundshot mk2 after disappointments with several other less well made makes.
On a Nikon D3x It handles fisheyes and other small lenses easily. It has no trouble moving the camera with a 180mm either but I am wrestling with the optimal settings for that lens - In speed mode I keep getting "unable to reach release time" messages, I'm sure I'll get there but any suggestions from the more numerate members would be welcome.
regards
JL

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by leifs » Wed Jul 27, 2011 12:20 am

It's OK in Opera 11.5 on Win7/64

I read through the instruction manual and noticed a lack of "visual mode", à¡ la Gigapan Epic.
For partial panos this is essential, so I asked Seitz about it and got this answere from Urs Krebs:

<<We will be providing a new software release for VR Drive in about 2 weeks with some bug fixes and small changes.
Then by end of summer the new HDR mode.
Followed by new features, including the VR Drive “visual mode” – probably by fall 2011.>>

Since most of my panos are partial (360 cylinders) I will wait until "probably by fall 2011" to consider a move to II. Maybe positions in a XML will be there too.
Olympus OM-D E-M1, Leica 25mm f1.4, fisheye, zooms, primes
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by klausesser » Fri Jul 29, 2011 11:53 am

Brines wrote:Does anyone know if speed mode will support the papywizard xml files?

I guess Seitz might know it best . . ;):cool:

best, Klaus
Simplicity is the keynote of all true elegance. Coco Chanel

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by klausesser » Fri Jul 29, 2011 12:06 pm

jl-kol wrote:In speed mode I keep getting "unable to reach release time" messages, I'm sure I'll get there but any suggestions from the more numerate members would be welcome.
regards
JL

Hi!

The head is a very fine piece of engineering and it does what you want . . . . IF your demands are in the range of physical logics. Using the speed mode you must be aware of the shutter speed you NEED to use the speed mode.
Completey forget times longer than 1/500 even when using wideangles or fisheyes. Regarding your 180mm: in speed mode i guess it´s impossible. Btw.: afaik the speed mode is only for one-row spherical using a fisheye!?

Think about what it means to use a 180mm while the camera is is moving very fast . . . It needs a shutter-speed about at least 1/1000 - 1/2000 i guess. You can make a test: take your camera with the 180mm and swing around fast on your heels while shooting a burst of pictures. You immediately will understand . . . :cool:

So when the head notices what lens you use i think it makes the speed mode unavailable - a very clever funtion . . ;)

best, Klaus
Last edited by klausesser on Fri Jul 29, 2011 12:08 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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by olihar » Fri Jul 29, 2011 5:31 pm

Isn't the fastest time to save RAW images to Memory card on the 5D Mark II around 1.6 seconds. Buffer will fill up pretty quick. Shooting JPG's will of course change that.

This is my findings with a Lexar 300x Card. And it seems having a fast one than that one will not help.
Last edited by olihar on Fri Jul 29, 2011 5:35 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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by mediavets » Sat Jul 30, 2011 9:02 am

gddxb wrote:I've uploaded a video to my Google+ account of it in action if anyone is interested in having a look -

https://plus.google.com/photos/113521658693133466438/albums/5635029414049172977/5635027700561748066

In quality mode. this panorama would be shot in under 35 minutes.

Regards,

Gerald.

I am not permitted access to that URL.
Andrew Stephens
Many different Nodal Ninja and Agnos pano heads. Merlin/Panogear mount with Papywizard on Nokia Internet tablets.
Nikon D5100 and D40, Sigma 8mm f3.5 FE, Nikon 10.5mm FE, 35mm, 50mm, 18-55mm, 70-210mm. Promote control.

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by klausesser » Sat Jul 30, 2011 4:35 pm

gddxb wrote:(just one clarification - speed mode works in multi-row and full spherical panoramas)

Hi!

Gerald!

Thanks! Didn´t know that - never looked at it deeper because such short exposuretimes usually are unrealistic.

best, Klaus
Simplicity is the keynote of all true elegance. Coco Chanel

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