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 Post subject: Roundshot VR Drive 2
PostPosted: Sun May 22, 2011 3:27 pm 
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Last edited by gddxb on Tue Apr 17, 2012 2:43 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun May 22, 2011 4:05 pm 
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I tested it - it´s a very fine piece of device! Fast, comfortable to handle and reliable. But expensive. Didn´t try more than a 200mm - but the motors seem to be strong enough for more.
Using a heavy camera with a batterygrip attached can rise some instability - the rails are a bit light in my understanding. Moving fast and stopping also fast is a big problem with heavy devices on it - a camera with batterygrip is a lot of weight not only to speed up but also to stop down - especially when the mass is a certain amount away from the center axis due to the grip . . .

best, Klaus

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PostPosted: Mon May 23, 2011 3:53 pm 
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gddxb wrote:
but I'm assuming that even so, it must be a couple of leagues above the Gigapan, no?

Definitely!

gddxb wrote:
The "speed" mode where the head doesn't stop-start sounds very interesting, and would solve that start/stop issue presumably (as long as you could use a high-enough shutter speed of course).

In my eyes it´s a marketing-gag. Depending on the lens you need at least 1/500sec. - better faster. It´s like shooting a very fast moving car or so with a fixed camera.

gddxb wrote:
Anything else in the 4K euro ballpark that you think competes with it?

Yes - Dr. Clauss "Rodeon" series. I doubt the VR2 really can take 20KG as moving load. Maybe horizontal - but vertical??
More relevant is the Newtonmeter - it describes the torque. Josef´s head makes 4Nm vertical and 1 Nm horizontal - that´s heavy stuff.

For VERY heavy stuff you should give a look to the Rodeon Station: http://www.dr-clauss.de/VRstation_DE.htm

best, Klaus

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PostPosted: Thu Jun 02, 2011 7:51 pm 
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Klaus,

I am concerned by your lack in faith in the VR Drive 2's ability to support heavier weights.

I have long considered the device to support my 300mm f/2.0, which weights just over 7 kilograms.

If you aren't sure of it moving 20kg, what do you think of its ability to move 8-9kg?

If you don't think it would work, what product would you recommend? I looked at some of the Klauss Rodeon models that you mentioned, but I wasn't sure which would be ideal. I assume you were referring to the VR Station ST.

I have also read a bit about Josef's head; with 4Nm vertical and 1Nm horizontal, is it a lot stronger than the VR Drive 2? Do you know if it will support Papywizard xml files?

What would you recommend?

I'm glad I read your post before I went ahead and bought the Roundshot.

Thank you so much,
Devin


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 02, 2011 8:25 pm 
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Brines wrote:
What would you recommend?

I'm glad I read your post before I went ahead and bought the Roundshot.

Hi David!

What does Seitz tell about the max. load? I tried to find an info - nothing. I guess the VR station of Dr. Clauss might be the most suitable for 9Kg load. Don´t know exactly Josef´s numbers relating this - but i know that 4Nm definitely is strong. I´ll forward you question to him - he´s watching the forum only frequently because of lots of work . . . :cool:

best, Klaus

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Jun 04, 2011 1:30 am 
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Thanks for the information guys.

Do either of you know the Newtonmeter for the Roundshot VR Drive 2? Is it something the makers would know if I asked them?

I feel reasonably sure that the VR Drive 2 can at least handle a sizable portion of that 20kg with ease.

Devin


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Jun 04, 2011 5:53 pm 
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I'll get back to you with the information.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Jun 04, 2011 6:45 pm 
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Brines wrote:
Thanks for the information guys.

Do either of you know the Newtonmeter for the Roundshot VR Drive 2? Is it something the makers would know if I asked them?

I feel reasonably sure that the VR Drive 2 can at least handle a sizable portion of that 20kg with ease.

Devin

20kg means static weight - unmoved. To move a load of 20kg you need a certain torque: Newton-Meter=Nm. It´s about 4Nm with Dr. Clauss Rodeon and about 10Nm with Dr. Clauss ultra-heavy rig for multiple cameras including light for reproduction of big paintings and so.
So for usual tasks including heavy cameras and lenses 4Nm is definitely suitable. If you need 10Nm it´s getting VERY expensive and VERY heavy - i guess it´s in the range of 10000.-€ and more.

20kg load would roughly mean a 35mm ARRI movie-camera with a real big lens and about 120m Film in it´s magazine - when i recall it correctly from my days as a cameraman. Really hard stuff . . :cool:

best, Klaus

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Jun 04, 2011 6:59 pm 
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klausesser wrote:
20kg load would roughly mean a 35mm ARRI movie-camera with a real big lens and about 120m Film in it´s magazine - when i recall it correctly from my days as a cameraman. Really hard stuff . . :cool:

Or the canon 1200/5.6 with 1D series body. With a little to spare for a TC. Simlarly the old nikkor 1200-1700/5.6-8 if you swing that way


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Jun 04, 2011 7:16 pm 
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wjh31 wrote:
Or the canon 1200/5.6 with 1D series body. With a little to spare for a TC. Simlarly the old nikkor 1200-1700/5.6-8 if you swing that way

Good Lord! Ok - if you can spend 60000.-€ for a lens the Rodeon can´t be really a problem . . :lol:

best, Klaus

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Jun 04, 2011 7:49 pm 
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klausesser wrote:
Good Lord! Ok - if you can spend 60000.-€ for a lens the Rodeon can´t be really a problem . . :lol:

best, Klaus

Not necessarily comparable. Compare the depreciation of the pair. If you sold in 5 years time i doubt the rodeon would be worth alot compared to its original cost. Whereas you might make a profit on the lens. Consider the canon orignally retailed for 90kUS and the last one sold for 120US. Some might say youd be silly not to buy one. If you can dig up the money...


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Jun 05, 2011 2:17 am 
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wjh31 wrote:
Some might say youd be silly not to buy one. If you can dig up the money...

I definitely wouldn´t buy one. What could it be good for related to panos? Buying something just for possessing it - THAT would be silly i guess :cool:

So: what are we talking about here?

best, Klaus

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Jun 05, 2011 9:37 am 
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Hello Gerald,

Yesterday i received my new Seitz Roundshot VR Drive II (with x and y motor). I tried it with my 1D Mark IV and 70-200 2.8 Mark II lens, no problem at all. The new Drive II feels very stable, much more stable as the first version of the VR Drive. I also own a 300 2.8 lens, i will try that lens later and let you know if the drive can handle this lens. The new interface with touch screen works very well, much options and very user friendly.

I do not own the Gigapan Epic Pro, but did test it twice, i did not find it very well build, i was used to the build quality of the Seitz VR Drive generation 1. I wanted to buy a Gigapan Epic Pro in september 2010, but then Seitz introduced the VR Drive II and I order one of them at the Photokina 2010.

I am new to this forum, with the new drive I also bought Auto Kolor Pano software, in the past I used PT Guy Pro.

Greetings,

Ivo


Last edited by Studio VR on Sun Jun 05, 2011 9:52 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Jun 05, 2011 2:39 pm 
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Welcome Ivo,

its going to be interesting to have you here. I am looking forward to hear about your experience with your new head

Henrik


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Jun 05, 2011 5:21 pm 
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Ivo--thanks a lot for your account of the product. I'm eager about it as well. I can't wait to see some of your work with it.

Devin


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Jun 05, 2011 6:59 pm 
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Thanks for the welcome guys. This week its very busy at the company, i don't have much time to play with the new drive, i have to find the nodal points of the lenses again. So i will use the old VR Drive version I this week, i hope i will get some time to play with the new one. I will keep you informed. The speed mode of the new drive is faster as the speed mode of the old one. You can do nice things with the speed mode. See the attached file, this was done with the old drive in 8 seconds (7 shots with Canon 1D Mark IV and 15 mm Fish eye).

Greetings,

Ivo




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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Jun 05, 2011 7:49 pm 
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Ivo, how is quality in speed mode. The vr2 claims to do 360 in 6 seconds. At the 1/500 exposure time they recoment that's still 1/8th of a degree over the exposure time which seems like a reasonable distance at current pixel densities even on a fisheye


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Jun 05, 2011 8:27 pm 
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The Quality in speed mode is reasonable overall. By using faster shutter times you go up with your iso and you have to adjust your aperture to get the shutter times needed. If the light conditions are good, then the image quality is also good.

For the VR drive 2:
6 second rotation time = 1/1500 shutter speed or faster
10 second rotation time = 1/900 shutter speed or faster
20 second rotation time = 1/450 shutter speed or faster

For the VR drive 1:
8 second rotation time = 1/1000 shutter speed or faster
12 second rotation time = 1/667 shutter speed or faster
40 second rotation time = 1/200 shutter speed or faster

But sometimes you have to choose: make the shot even if you know the image quality will not be perfect or do not take the shot at all. I then always choose for the first option.
The speed mode helps you to take pictures you otherwise could not take, the lesser image quality is part of that.
At this time i didn't try the 6 second speedmode of the vr drive II, i hope to try it this week.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Jun 06, 2011 5:28 pm 
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During Palmela 2011, Urs Krebs from Seitz was there showing the head. It's really easy to use, fast, etc. Swiss quality.
Good news ? There are working on making a direct support of Papywizard XML in the head to get a guarantied stitch :)


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Jun 06, 2011 10:02 pm 
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gddxb wrote:
I'd be very interested in your thoughts on the speed mode - assuming you could shoot at 1/4000th of a second, what do you think would be the longest focal length lens you could use on with it*?

Based only on maths: at 20s per full rotation, a 1/4000th of a second will cover about 16 arcseconds. IF we allow two pixels worth of movement, i.e 8 arcseconds per pixel, then a 150mm lens could be used on a 5dMk2 or about 100mm on a 7D. During this you would be capturing about 2fps


Last edited by wjh31 on Mon Jun 06, 2011 10:06 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Jun 07, 2011 2:44 am 
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Does anyone know if speed mode will support the papywizard xml files?


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Jun 07, 2011 6:10 am 
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Yes,you can manually control the times for the speed mode.

For the x-motor: 6 to 9999 seconds
For the y-motor: 8 to 9999 seconds


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Jun 07, 2011 6:46 am 
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The times are for a full 360 rotation.

If you set the time to 12 seconds and you set the field of view to 120 it will take 4 seconds to rotate the 120 degrees


Last edited by Studio VR on Tue Jun 07, 2011 7:51 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Jun 07, 2011 7:47 am 
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Every mode will support xml normally.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Jun 08, 2011 6:25 am 
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This all sounds amazing. And thanks so much Alexandre.


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