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shooting with moving people

PostPosted: Thu May 19, 2011 11:25 am
by wjh31
When shooting scenes with moving people, i understand that avoiding floating head syndrome is best done by shooting quick and with a wide lens. At the moment I can only go as wide as 18mm on a canon crop body, and the melin head. For shooting around people how wide do you suggest going? I gather the 8mm samyang does well but is there something in between which would suffice without giving up too much resolution. Also would the new NN4 (or something else?) be suitable with the click-stops to shoot faster by moving quickly, manually rather than the sometimes slow merlin?

The context: Ive presented myself to my employer (a college) to help them build a virtual tour, and it would be nice to have rooms with students in for added atmosphere, and want to know the best compromise as to date ive mostly done spheres with a 50mm lens.

PostPosted: Thu May 19, 2011 11:39 am
by mediavets
Yes, a manual head such as the NN4 would be good - better than the Merlin for this application - along with a fisheye lens. You could also use a NN3 series head with most fisheye lenses and many of the smaller cropped sensor Canon bodies. You could use a NN Rx ring style head with the Sigma 8mm f3.5 too.

The Samyang (and other branded clones) fullframe (on a cropped sensor Canon) fisheye is the least expensive available but even that is reckoned to be not as suitable for scenes with moving people as the Sigma 8mm f3.5 on your body.

Be aware that the Samyang (and clones) are completely manual lenses with no electrical connections between lens and body.

PostPosted: Thu May 19, 2011 12:06 pm
by wjh31
http://www.sphericalimages.com/brighton-college-school-360-virtual-tour.htm is the sort of thing id like to aim towards. A superwide fisheye would make it a bit simpler and quicker to shoot. But im wondering if something slightly longer would be sufficient and offer a bit more resolution. E.g one of the 10-20ishmm rectilinar lenses? or maybe even just going a little wider to 15mm with the 15-85mm lens?

PostPosted: Thu May 19, 2011 12:14 pm
by mediavets
wjh31 wrote:http://www.sphericalimages.com/brighton-college-school-360-virtual-tour.htm is the sort of thing id like to aim towards. A superwide fisheye would make it a bit simpler and quicker to shoot. But im wondering if something slightly longer would be sufficient and offer a bit more resolution. E.g one of the 10-20ishmm rectilinar lenses? or maybe even just going a little wider to 15mm with the 15-85mm lens?

Yes, you would get a higher res. result, but:

1. APP/APG currently doesn't handle images sets shot with ultra wide rectlinear lenses - which often exhibit complex distortions - very well.

2. The number of images required to cover a 360x180 FOV increases massively and you will not have done anything to cope with the movement of people challenge; see:
http://www.vrwave.com/panoramic-lens-database/

3. You would be far more likely to run into the orphaned 'featureless' images problem.

Do you have an idea/goal in mind for the res. of equirectangular you would like to produce?

.........

If you have deep pockets then look out for the new Canon 8-15mm zoom fisheye lens. Due in the shops sometime soon:
http://www.learn.usa.canon.com/resources/articles/2011/2011_Zoom_Fisheye_Lens_article.shtml

http://www.popphoto.com/gear/2010/09/hands-canon-ef-8-15mm-f4l-usm-fisheye

The long established Tokina 10-17mm zoom fisheye is the only similar lens available as far as I know, much less expensive, but...

http://www.tokinalens.com/products/tokina/atx107afdx-a.html
........

If you have any plans/ambitions to move to a fullframe sensor body anytime soon then this should be borne in mind when choosing a fisheye lens. Some fisheye lenses designed for use on cropped sensor bodies can be 'shaved' (removing the lens hood) and be used on a fullframe sensor body.

http://www.360pano.de/en/tokina-sigma-nikon.html

http://michel.thoby.free.fr/SAMYANG/Early%20test%20report.html

PostPosted: Thu May 19, 2011 1:06 pm
by klausesser
mediavets wrote:1. APP/APG currently doesn't handle images sets shot with ultra wide rectlinear lenses - which often exhibit complex distortions - very well.

Depends - i used a 20mm Nikon on Canon 20D for about two years. It worked well. Using the same lens on fullframe (5D2 and 1DsIII) also no problem in APG.
But Obviously a fisheye is preferable in croweded surroundings.
I mean the 20mm is a good choice for 1,6 crop - it´s 24 shots for a sphere and you get a sufficient resolution. But it´s essential to have a GOOD lens - otherwise dealing with CAs or distortion can be very time-consumpting.

best, Klaus

PostPosted: Thu May 19, 2011 2:52 pm
by wjh31
Klauss. Do you have problems with keeping people intact at 20mm? Maybe i shall experiment and see if 18mm might be sufficient with care. Is CA really a problem if it's batch corrected with photoshop profiles first?

PostPosted: Thu May 19, 2011 3:41 pm
by mediavets
wjh31 wrote:http://www.sphericalimages.com/brighton-college-school-360-virtual-tour.htm is the sort of thing id like to aim towards.

You'd need a fisheye IMO to be able to shoots scenes like that, even if it appears that the people in these scenes were probably briefed to stay still in their 'poses' most of the time.

The photographer - Henry Stuart (who also shot that Royal Wedding procession on the Mall pano for the BBC) - seems he may use Nikon DXx series bodies with the Nikkor 10.5mm FE lens on a 360Precision Absolute pano head for these school panos. A slighty 'odd' combination of lens and body, but....

I'd love to know how much he charges for his work.

PostPosted: Thu May 19, 2011 6:01 pm
by klausesser
wjh31 wrote:Klauss. Do you have problems with keeping people intact at 20mm? Maybe i shall experiment and see if 18mm might be sufficient with care. Is CA really a problem if it's batch corrected with photoshop profiles first?

Usually i look through the finder and watch for best time to release.
Processing CAs might have an influence on other parts in the image. So in my eyes it´s definitely better not to have them.

best, Klaus

PostPosted: Fri May 20, 2011 12:11 pm
by GURL
"Peoples size" (their distance from the camera) and whether or not they are included in the "non-overlap rectangle" (full frame minus 25% along each of the sides) are the main points.

As a result:
- the wider the lens the shorter the distance between the camera and the peoples
- when watching the four sides of the frame in the viewfinder is difficult then recording several images in the same direction and selecting the right one afterwards is very helpful

Besides that, recording several images in the same direction is helpful to avoid "clones" (the same person in different places.) When everybody is moving in the same direction clones are quite easy to avoid, when many peoples are crossing the same place shooting several image looks like the best solution.

In my opinion using Autopano layers and including the panorama, the different layers and the source images in a resulting PSD file is the way to go when one want to record many peoples or even crowds. My preferred solution is to shoot first a series where as few peoples as possible are recorded which is to be used for the background and then to add peoples coming from additional views.

PostPosted: Fri May 20, 2011 11:02 pm
by wjh31
I think i probably need to find a shop and see if i can try a couple of lenses.