Autofocus and Gigapanos...  

In the panorama field, hardware is also part of the success. You can discuss here about it: camera, computer, pano head, anything
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enridp
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by enridp » Wed Jan 26, 2011 3:28 pm

digipano wrote:I think this was the tool they used called gigatiler, didn't they?
http://www.autopano.net/wiki-en/GigaTiler

gkaefer wrote:and on krpano side theres the tool kmaketiles. webpage says that cutting into slices and pasting the slices back to a pano is possible...
http://www.krpano.com/tools/index.php?lang=en
Georg

Thanks for those links! I will try them
Anyway hopefully it's not necessary any edit.

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by tived » Thu Jan 27, 2011 12:12 am

Hi AussieJohn,

Do you do panohead assemply workshops? :-) Cos I know jack about it! but it still sounds interesting and I haven't gotten any further since we last spoke

Henrik

WA 6061

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by digipano » Thu Jan 27, 2011 5:52 am

I tried gigatiler with an 18gb .psb file & found that it can only cut the file into tiles for photoshopping the tiles but cant join the tiles back.

Then I tried kmaketiles though the documentation says it can cut the tiles & join them back too, it can only take 8bit jpeg & tiff (no .psb support) which I remember both formats are limited to 2gb & 4gb respectively & their is a dimension limit of 64000 pix max dimension.

So no real solution for a gigapixel image cutting/editing & putting them back to single image exist, if someone knows any more tool please share here the info.

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by aussiejohn » Thu Jan 27, 2011 11:57 am

mediavets - thanks for the link. There are plenty of guys on robotics sites using cordless drill motors for robotic traction motors, I was not aware of anyone using cordless drill motors for a panorama application.

enridp - one thing I forgot to mention, there is a screw inside the chuck which holds the chuck onto the motor body. The screw is right hand threaded; therefore to remove the screw, turn the screwdriver to the right to loosen the screw. You may need to tap the chuck with a hammer to remove the chuck from the motor assembly.

Stepper motors may not be up to the task. They may not take any weight on the bearings. If you have access to a lathe, you may try coupling the stepper motor to the cordless drill gearbox or the worm drive assembly. As a bonus it will give you a finer stepping accuracy.

tived – Trying to find adequate enclosures and electronics in Australia is almost impossible; therefore, I have not progressed passed a proof of concept stage. If you could overcome the international freight costs into Australia, the cheapest option would be to purchase a merlin/orion mount.

There are a number of USA sites selling merlin/orion type mounts and the telescope for about $170.00US. Unfortunately the telescope itself adds to half of the freight costs. If the mount could be purchased without the telescope it will probably drop the cost of freight into Australia by 50%.

A lot of the USA sites will not ship to Australia because of Australian telescope agencies. A friend of mine uses boxvoyage http://www.boxvoyage.com/ to freight to Australia. Because boxvoyage is a USA address, most USA companies will ship to a USA address free of internal USA freight charges. Boxvoyage will then ship to Australia using the cheapest international freight charges.

I would suggest you look at the boxvoyage handling and freight costs into Australia. It may be that if the merlin/orion type mounts can be purchased from the USA without the telescope and enough local photographers were interested, then a bulk purchase may make the purchase economical.

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by aussiejohn » Thu Jan 27, 2011 12:56 pm

Cordless drill motor modification with drawings:

http://www.wa4dsy.net/robot/drill-motor-hack

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by enridp » Thu Jan 27, 2011 1:21 pm

Hi John!

aussiejohn wrote:enridp - one thing I forgot to mention, there is a screw inside the chuck which holds the chuck onto the motor body. The screw is right hand threaded; therefore to remove the screw, turn the screwdriver to the right to loosen the screw. You may need to tap the chuck with a hammer to remove the chuck from the motor assembly.

yes, I saw the link ^_^

aussiejohn wrote:Stepper motors may not be up to the task. They may not take any weight on the bearings. If you have access to a lathe, you may try coupling the stepper motor to the cordless drill gearbox or the worm drive assembly. As a bonus it will give you a finer stepping accuracy.

I think I didn't understand you... what are the problems with steppers? they are used in CNC machines and things like that. But maybe I'm missing something...
I don't want to use a servo because they are expensive and much of them have a limited angle of rotation (I need continuous rotation).

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by klausesser » Thu Jan 27, 2011 4:33 pm

enridp wrote:(I need continuous rotation).

Why???

best, Klaus
Simplicity is the keynote of all true elegance. Coco Chanel

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by aussiejohn » Thu Jan 27, 2011 5:08 pm

enridp – I have read a number of articles comparing stepper motors to geared motors. If you have all the parts at your disposal there is no reason that one design is superior to the other. Geared motors are normally used because of battery consumption and it is easier and cheaper to manufacture.

Stepper motor driven devices are usually belt drive not direct drive. Most stepper motors use a non-slip belt drive arrangement to drive the load shaft. I have encountered very few direct drive stepper motors assemblies. If you are using a light weight camera it may be ok to direct drive. On heavier loads, using a direct drive stepper motor may place too much load on the bearings. If you have the stepper motor number Google for the specifications.

If the stepper motor uses phosphor bronze bearings you will be able to place a reasonable load on the motor shaft. If the stepper motor uses ball bearings, the load has to be evenly balanced otherwise it places stresses on the ball racer assembly. The other thing to consider is that stepper motor windings are permanently energised when the stepper motor is stalled ie in the required stepper position. The magnetism keeps the stepper motor shaft from rotating. In the de-energised state the stepper motor spins freely. You will need to incorporate a brake to stop the stepper motor rotating when de-energised. I have seen a number of designs use a worm drive assembly to overcome the de-energised stepper motor spinning freely.

The other thing to consider is modelling servo motors. KAP - Kite Aerial Photography guys use them in their rigs to rotate their cameras. Take a look at: http://arch.ced.berkeley.edu/kap/discuss/ for servo drive ideas. You may want to incorporate some of the KAP designs in your rig.

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by enridp » Thu Jan 27, 2011 6:37 pm

aussiejohn wrote:enridp – I have read a number of articles comparing stepper motors to geared motors. If you have all the parts at your disposal there is no reason that one design is superior to the other. Geared motors are normally used because of battery consumption and it is easier and cheaper to manufacture.

Stepper motor driven devices are usually belt drive not direct drive. Most stepper motors use a non-slip belt drive arrangement to drive the load shaft. I have encountered very few direct drive stepper motors assemblies. If you are using a light weight camera it may be ok to direct drive. On heavier loads, using a direct drive stepper motor may place too much load on the bearings. If you have the stepper motor number Google for the specifications.

If the stepper motor uses phosphor bronze bearings you will be able to place a reasonable load on the motor shaft. If the stepper motor uses ball bearings, the load has to be evenly balanced otherwise it places stresses on the ball racer assembly. The other thing to consider is that stepper motor windings are permanently energised when the stepper motor is stalled ie in the required stepper position. The magnetism keeps the stepper motor shaft from rotating. In the de-energised state the stepper motor spins freely. You will need to incorporate a brake to stop the stepper motor rotating when de-energised. I have seen a number of designs use a worm drive assembly to overcome the de-energised stepper motor spinning freely.

The other thing to consider is modelling servo motors. KAP - Kite Aerial Photography guys use them in their rigs to rotate their cameras. Take a look at: http://arch.ced.berkeley.edu/kap/discuss/ for servo drive ideas. You may want to incorporate some of the KAP designs in your rig.

ah, yes, now I understad what you said, I was not planning to attach the load shaft directly to the motor shaft, I was planning to use a worm, because it can rise the torque and increase the angular resolution of the motor (and also adds a brake).

The bad news are that the motor that I've found inside an old printer is not a stepper motor like I thought :(
When I moved the worm I felt "steps", but now seeing the cables (only two) and the specifications, it seems a common DC motor :(
I found a picture in internet, this is the motor:
Image
http://2hg.eu/with_24-35v.htm

Do you think I can hack that motor to reuse the worm and gears with a stepper?
Because I don't know neither where to buy nor how to attach a worm gear :S


klausesser wrote:Why???

The "continuos rotation" is not for gigapixels, it's for spherical panoramas (1 row, with a fisheye).
In this thread I've explained it better:
http://www.autopano.net/forum/viewtopic.php?pid=75919#p75919

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by mediavets » Thu Jan 27, 2011 8:24 pm

enridp wrote:The "continuos rotation" is not for gigapixels, it's for spherical panoramas (1 row, with a fisheye).
In this thread I've explained it better:
http://www.autopano.net/forum/viewtopic.php?pid=75919#p75919

I can see little point in using a motorised robotic head for single row FE pano shoots unless the camera is mounted on a mast/pole and then the two axis Merlin would be 'overkill' if you are shooting a single row.

Now reading your posts in the other thread I guess this relates to your 2M pole 'walking' panos.

Is this instance I can see why may want a fast rotation single row robotic head.

This should be relatively simple to make I'd have thought.

Here are some (expensive) products that may offer some ideas:
http://www.gigapanbot.de/panobot-en.htm
http://www.autopano.net/forum/t8227-magnetic-autotrigger-rotator
http://www.panoguide.com/forums/commercial/7258/

And an alternative approach - a multicamera DIY Streetview setup:
http://www.diy-streetview.org/
Last edited by mediavets on Thu Jan 27, 2011 9:10 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Andrew Stephens
Many different Nodal Ninja and Agnos pano heads. Merlin/Panogear mount with Papywizard on Nokia Internet tablets.
Nikon D5100 and D40, Sigma 8mm f3.5 FE, Nikon 10.5mm FE, 35mm, 50mm, 18-55mm, 70-210mm. Promote control.

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by klausesser » Thu Jan 27, 2011 9:31 pm

Yes - and this one is also very nice . . but in now way highres . . :cool:
http://immersivemedia.com/products/index.html

best, Klaus
Last edited by klausesser on Thu Jan 27, 2011 9:48 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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by enridp » Thu Jan 27, 2011 11:57 pm

mediavets wrote:I can see little point in using a motorised robotic head for single row FE pano shoots unless the camera is mounted on a mast/pole and then the two axis Merlin would be 'overkill' if you are shooting a single row.

Now reading your posts in the other thread I guess this relates to your 2M pole 'walking' panos.

At really this post was about gigapixels, but if I can use Merlin for "normal" panoramas too, and for "walking panoramas" then I have a better relation cost vs benefit.
Also, a 2 axis can be really useful, because my Samyang doesn't cover 180º uin FOV, so with another axis I can shoot an extra zenith shoot.

mediavets wrote:Is this instance I can see why may want a fast rotation single row robotic head.

This should be relatively simple to make I'd have thought.

Here are some (expensive) products that may offer some ideas:
http://www.gigapanbot.de/panobot-en.htm

Yes! that's the speed that I want :D
I didn't know it, thanks.
I think is not so expensive, MK costs €1100, this €300, but it has only one motorized axis, the two axis version is gigapanbot.
He is using stepper motors, with planetary gears for Panobot, and with worm gears (I think because the position of the motors) for gigapanbot.



I made something similar to this. I can't believe they are selling it for $975 !!


This is the fastest panohead in the market I think. And I don't understand why all the other panohead are so slow.

mediavets wrote:And an alternative approach - a multicamera DIY Streetview setup:
http://www.diy-streetview.org/

Yes, Jan is making a really good work, and it was very inspiring to me.
But I can't buy 4 or 5 GoPro.

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by klausesser » Fri Jan 28, 2011 1:58 am

enridp wrote:And I don't understand why all the other panohead are so slow.

;):cool:

best, Klaus
Simplicity is the keynote of all true elegance. Coco Chanel

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by gkaefer » Fri Jan 28, 2011 11:21 am

klausesser wrote:
enridp wrote:And I don't understand why all the other panohead are so slow.

;):cool:

best, Klaus

the pano heads from Seitz have an "speed" mode which allows an 360 pano in 4 seconds...
http://www.roundshot.ch/xml_1/internet/de/application/d438/d927/f1033.cfm

Georg

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by klausesser » Fri Jan 28, 2011 1:54 pm

gkaefer wrote:
klausesser wrote:
enridp wrote:And I don't understand why all the other panohead are so slow.

;):cool:

best, Klaus

the pano heads from Seitz have an "speed" mode which allows an 360 pano in 4 seconds...
http://www.roundshot.ch/xml_1/internet/de/application/d438/d927/f1033.cfm

Georg

Right - they´re definitely preferable over Merlin . . . :cool:
So are the Rodeons.
Josef´s new head still is in progress . . . ;) looks fine yet. Working with PapyWizard and TC controller (of course).
I´m promised a prototype for testing in Febuary.

best, Klaus
Simplicity is the keynote of all true elegance. Coco Chanel

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by gkaefer » Fri Jan 28, 2011 2:25 pm

klausesser wrote:I´m promised a prototype for testing in Febuary.

is there any prediction about price range for Josefs head available?
Josef? or Greg?
http://www.autopano.net/forum/t11055-video-of-head-doing-it-s-thing

lg
Georg

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by hankkarl » Mon Jan 31, 2011 4:50 pm

mediavets wrote:
enridp wrote:I want a 300mm. But my doubt is about the other features, like AF, AF-S, VR, manufacturer, or any "important" detail, specially for gigapanos. I'm not a photographer and I'm afraid of making a bad choice.

Do you think you'll find anything cheaper than the AF-S DX NIKKOR 55-300mm f/4.5-5.6G ED VR:
http://imaging.nikon.com/products/imaging/lineup/lens/zoom/telephotozoom/af-s_nikkor55-300mmf_45-56g_ed_vr/index.htm

But the AF-S VR Zoom-Nikkor ED 70-300mm f/4.5-5.6G IF is said to be superior.

What lenses have you been considering?

......................

And have you yet worked out how many images it will take to cover a typical desired partial pano FOV when shooting with your D5000 and a 300mm lens?

That lens is a VR lens, so its not cheap.

A few years ago, the Sigma 70-300 was considered to be a good lens for the money--better than the Canon non-IS version. But there are several variants, so read the reviews carefully.

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