Suggestion on panohead  

In the panorama field, hardware is also part of the success. You can discuss here about it: camera, computer, pano head, anything
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Suggestion on panohead

by marco.lanciani » Fri Nov 26, 2010 1:06 pm

Need something to work remotely, both the camera and the panohead, better wirelessly and that does hdr, at least 5 or 7 shots by 2EVs.
The camera will be a D700+50mm, working hight between 4m and 8m in interioros.

Might be the Merlin up to the task.
Let's say for a moment costs are not a problem, I'm also thinking about the RodeonHD. Can it does the hdr I need, trigger the camera and start the head wirelessly?

My workflow would be to use lightroom/emblend to develop the RAWs and export the HDR results and PTGui as the stitcher.
Working with the Rodeon can I create a template of the first pano in PTGui and apply it with confidence to all the other panos? That is, is the Rodeon so precise?
What about the Merlin in this regard?

Thanks in advance,
Marco

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by mediavets » Fri Nov 26, 2010 3:25 pm

marco.lanciani wrote:Need something to work remotely, both the camera and the panohead, better wirelessly and that does hdr, at least 5 or 7 shots by 2EVs.
The camera will be a D700+50mm, working height between 4m and 8m in interiors.

Might be the Merlin up to the task?

Marco

Yes; I think Merlin could handle the task.

Use it with a Promote Control to provide the extended exposure bracketing you seek:
http://www.promotesystems.com/

............

You might also like to check out the upcoming Roundshot VR II - but it won't be available until some undisclosed date in 2011 with HDR support:
http://www.roundshot.ch/xml_1/internet/de/application/d438/d927/f1033.cfm

And perhaps the new two-axis version of the PanoMachine - although I'm not sure how you'd handle the extended range bracketing with that:
http://www.vr-head.com/english/mk-panomachine/index.html
Last edited by mediavets on Fri Nov 26, 2010 3:26 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Andrew Stephens
Many different Nodal Ninja and Agnos pano heads. Merlin/Panogear mount with Papywizard on Nokia Internet tablets.
Nikon D5100 and D40, Sigma 8mm f3.5 FE, Nikon 10.5mm FE, 35mm, 50mm, 18-55mm, 70-210mm. Promote control.

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by marco.lanciani » Sat Nov 27, 2010 1:24 am

Thanks Andrew,

the Roundshot VR II seems good but the cable that trigger the camera is on the base, which doesn't rotate, which is wrong in my opinion.
It might prevent some movement or just give a hard time in photoshop...
The PanoMachine has a big footprint... but HDR is mandatory...
It seems as the only candidates are the Merlin and The Rodeon.

Also, does anyone have experience on this:
working with the Rodeon can I create a template of the first pano in PTGui and apply it with confidence to all the other panos? That is, is the Rodeon so precise?
What about the Merlin in this regard?

Regards,
Marco

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by PanoMachine » Sat Nov 27, 2010 10:32 am

Hello:

I want to add only a picture of the footprint from our MK PanoMachine.
The MK PanoMachine housing is the small black box you can see - the blue screws are from the add on Novoflex bracket.

I think the footprint is not very big and you can add on our brand-new MK VR-Bracket - special made for us by Berlebach.

Best regards

Marc

www.vr-head.com



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by marco.lanciani » Sat Nov 27, 2010 12:49 pm

PanoMachine wrote:Hello:

I want to add only a picture of the footprint from our MK PanoMachine.
The MK PanoMachine housing is the small black box you can see - the blue screws are from the add on Novoflex bracket.

I think the footprint is not very big and you can add on our brand-new MK VR-Bracket - special made for us by Berlebach.

Best regards

Marc

www.vr-head.com

That's interesting. On the website I saw a rectangular controlbox (may be this is the why of my misunderstanding); your picture instead shows a square footprint.
- What does actually rotate? The base above or below the rectangular controlbox. I might guess the base below given the square footprint.

- Also I see a cable from the controlbox to the vertical arm: this should confirm that the whole base is moving to prevent any limitation on the around movement. Can you confirm?

- What about wireless control of the head and triggering, still wireless, of the camera? Is this possible?
- HDR is only possible using the Promote in terms of 5 or 7 shots by 2EVs, or is this within the reach of the MK controlbox?

- I also need repeatability and enough precision so to allow me to apply the template of the first pano in PTGui to stitch all the nexts panos. Do you think this possible?
As I wrote on the first post I'm planning to work with a D700+50mm in interiors between 4m and 8m.

Thanks in advance,
Marco

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by PanoMachine » Sat Nov 27, 2010 6:40 pm

Dear Marco:

The full box of the MK PanoMachine rotates - so you´ll get a small footprint. So I gladly confirm that the whole base is moving...

Yes, without cable the MK PanoMachine can be controlled by an IR touch-screen remote control, with a small IR remote control or triggered by radio control. So it´s possible...

You can use the integrated bracketing function of your camera, the MK PanoMachine releases your camera or if you want more steps you can use the Promote Control and our MK PanoMachine releases the Promote Control at each stop ... this workflow works very fine!

The resolution of the MK PanoMachine is up to 0,1° - so the precision is fine, also good for time-lapse photography. Your NIKON D 700 / 50mm lens will work fine with our device.

There are also some nice functions integrated to work on a pole ;-)

If you like you can call me - I can explain in detail: +49 04181 94 95 48

Best regards from Germany

Marc

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by marco.lanciani » Sat Nov 27, 2010 8:33 pm

Hi Mark,

Thanks for the info.
Also, do you think the MK can support an Hasselblad39Mpix+120mm?
Also can I cover the full sphere or there might be limitations due to dimensions of the camera itself?
What about wireless operation in this case?

Any chance to connect the Hasselblad to the Promote for extended hdr functions?
Are there alternatives to the Promote to do the hdr sequence on the Hasselblad?

What do you mean by "nice functions integrated to work on a pole"?
Best Regards,
Marco

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by PanoMachine » Sat Nov 27, 2010 9:48 pm

Hi Marco:

I only test the MK PanoMachine with the Hasselblad in summer without the new Vertical Drive- that works fine.
The new MK VR-Bracket can support the camera.

The size of our panorama angle is 227/227 mm (lenght & height 250 mm) - it´s very stable for heavy weight and installation of our motorized vertical drive.
The panorama clamp plate is 227 mm with scala (upper rail) - it´s with embedded rubber cord which prevents camera slipping. You can also use our quick change plate!

Can you give me the exact size and weight of camera / lens I can make a test with Vertical Drive. Thank you in advance!
However the new drive is strong...


We can release your Hasselbald, no problem!

I think the Promote Control is only good for a lot of Canon / Nikon cameras - please have a look to http://www.promotesystems.com/


If you have a HDR software working on a computer and triggers your Hasselblad wireless you can use semi automatic to move the MK PanoMachine to the next position. Sorry, I know a lot about Nikon and Canon cameras, but not about Hasselblad - we have some customers using a MK PanoMachine, it works fine...

What do you mean by "nice functions integrated to work on a pole"?

Semi automatic, video, high speed

Best regards

Marc
Last edited by PanoMachine on Sun Nov 28, 2010 10:51 am, edited 1 time in total.

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by gkaefer » Mon Nov 29, 2010 12:46 pm

Marc,

about the MK PanoMachine a question: is there any xml logfile of the created pano I could use for the Import Wizzard of APG?
(like xml created from papywizard&merlin combo... - I know about using the gigapan import wizzard instead)
Liebe Gruesse,
Georg
Last edited by gkaefer on Mon Nov 29, 2010 12:47 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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by PanoMachine » Mon Nov 29, 2010 1:44 pm

Hi Georg:

Die MK PanoMachine arbeitet autonom und verfügt über "keine*" Computerschnittstelle.

*Die vorhandene (USB) ist intern für Firmware Updates nutzbar.

Die Programmierung erfolgt am Gerà¤t oder über Fernbedienung.

Bei Fragen einfach anrufen: +49 4181 94 95 48

Herzliche GrüàŸe nach Salzburg

Marc

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by mediavets » Mon Nov 29, 2010 2:21 pm

PanoMachine wrote:Hi Georg:

Die MK PanoMachine arbeitet autonom und verfügt über "keine*" Computerschnittstelle.

*Die vorhandene (USB) ist intern für Firmware Updates nutzbar.

Die Programmierung erfolgt am Gerà¤t oder über Fernbedienung.

Bei Fragen einfach anrufen: +49 4181 94 95 48

Herzliche GrüàŸe nach Salzburg

Marc

And in English?
Andrew Stephens
Many different Nodal Ninja and Agnos pano heads. Merlin/Panogear mount with Papywizard on Nokia Internet tablets.
Nikon D5100 and D40, Sigma 8mm f3.5 FE, Nikon 10.5mm FE, 35mm, 50mm, 18-55mm, 70-210mm. Promote control.

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by klausesser » Mon Nov 29, 2010 2:33 pm

mediavets wrote:
PanoMachine wrote:Hi Georg:

Die MK PanoMachine arbeitet autonom und verfügt über "keine*" Computerschnittstelle.

*Die vorhandene (USB) ist intern für Firmware Updates nutzbar.

Die Programmierung erfolgt am Gerà¤t oder über Fernbedienung.

Bei Fragen einfach anrufen: +49 4181 94 95 48

Herzliche GrüàŸe nach Salzburg

Marc

And in English?

The essence: there´s no way to generate and output an xml on the Panomachine.

It´s a stand-alone device without a computer interface.
The existing USB interface is internal (?) for the use of firmware updates.
Programming/configuring is done onthe device or via a (?) remote control.

best, Klaus
Simplicity is the keynote of all true elegance. Coco Chanel

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by mediavets » Mon Nov 29, 2010 3:20 pm

klausesser wrote:The essence: there´s no way to generate and output an xml on the Panomachine.

It´s a stand-alone device without a computer interface.
The existing USB interface is internal (?) for the use of firmware updates.
Programming/configuring is done onthe device or via a (?) remote control.

best, Klaus

Thanks Klaus,

It's disappointing to learn that it cannot record a Papywizard compatible (or indeed any sort of) data file.

Does Marc offer any alternative approach to positioning 'featureless' images when stitching a hi-res pano?
Andrew Stephens
Many different Nodal Ninja and Agnos pano heads. Merlin/Panogear mount with Papywizard on Nokia Internet tablets.
Nikon D5100 and D40, Sigma 8mm f3.5 FE, Nikon 10.5mm FE, 35mm, 50mm, 18-55mm, 70-210mm. Promote control.

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by klausesser » Mon Nov 29, 2010 4:12 pm

mediavets wrote:Does Marc offer any alternative approach to positioning 'featureless' images when stitching a hi-res pano?

No ides.
I read there´s a remote-control via some handhelds - but how far it´s controllable i don´t know.
Maybe it´s just start/stop - Marc surely will write something about it i guess.

An xml export for positioning definitely isn´t implemented.

best, Klaus
Simplicity is the keynote of all true elegance. Coco Chanel

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by PanoMachine » Mon Nov 29, 2010 6:51 pm

Hi:

I work with my MK PanoMachine as follows:

1.) I turn the MK PanoMachine with the remote control (all functions, not just start) in the desired starting position.
2.) Then I choose the number of images and rows, and other settings :)
3.) Afterwards I make settings in Autopano Giga how the MK PanoMachine turn the rows :)

http://www.autopano.net/en/photo-stitching-solutions/support-tetes-panoramiques.html


The support of panoramic heads is made easy thanks to a dedicated tool to import the images and the settings. The shooting grid is reconstructed and the stitching is then faster and more efficient.


The importation is divided into 3 simple steps:
> 1. The choice of the panoramic head used to shoot the images
> 2. The selection of the images and settings
> 3. The verification of the shooting direction

Autopano then recomposes the grid and stitches the images using the same advanced algorithms as for regular images while using the information and settings defined in this importation tool. Panoramas of several hundred or thousand images are stitched in a record time.

That workflow works very good - so it´s easy to make a perfect panorama with the MK PanoMachine & Autopano Giga.

Have fun

Marc
Last edited by PanoMachine on Mon Nov 29, 2010 6:53 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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by mediavets » Mon Nov 29, 2010 7:06 pm

Marc,

So you are using the Gigapan Import wizard/filter? Is that correct?

Does the Panomachine only shoot regular grids/mosaics - same number of images in each row and in each column?

Can youj start at any corner and move in eithe pitch priority or yaw priority.

Do you have to return to the beginning of each row/column (like the Giagapan heads); or can you reverse direction for next row/column (like Merlin/Papywizard)?
Andrew Stephens
Many different Nodal Ninja and Agnos pano heads. Merlin/Panogear mount with Papywizard on Nokia Internet tablets.
Nikon D5100 and D40, Sigma 8mm f3.5 FE, Nikon 10.5mm FE, 35mm, 50mm, 18-55mm, 70-210mm. Promote control.

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by klausesser » Mon Nov 29, 2010 7:14 pm

Hey Marc!

Just for clarification: DOES the Panomachine write and export an XLM which APG can import for positioning featureless images?

best, Klaus
Last edited by klausesser on Mon Nov 29, 2010 7:15 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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by PanoMachine » Tue Nov 30, 2010 4:55 am

Hi!

The MK PanoMachine is a "stand-alone" unit with no connection to the computer / software.

So you can only use a mask in the software that describes the workflow.
It will be good kolor will add the possible masks for the MK PanoMachine - I´ll write a mail to Alexander Jenny.


So far, only the same number of images per row plus 1 picture + / -90 ° (if you choose Zenit / Nadir option).
Do you need the other option, too?

The MK PanoMachine turns CW or CCW.
You can set a starting point not only at vertical 0...

Thank you for the advice - I`ll look to update the firmware to use return to zero / way back for the next row if you don´t make a full 360° panorama.

If you have any ideas please let me know - I can improve the device.

Thank you,

Marc

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by klausesser » Tue Nov 30, 2010 2:44 pm

PanoMachine wrote:If you have any ideas please let me know - I can improve the device.

Hi Marc!

A Nokia N800/810 (together about 150-250.-€) running PapyWizard and controlling a Merlin-Head (about 250.-€) and the TC-Controller (made by Josef) both generate an xml file for making APG positioning even featureless images. So do the Dr. Clauss Rodeon series and the Gigapan head.

Having such a feature in my eyes is a must for a head that costs about 2500.-€ for multi-row, sorry.

To pin down your claim: Panomachine does NOT provide xml files for positioning featureless images in APG - or somewhere else?

Sorry being so insisting.

best, Klaus

"The MK PanoMachine is a "stand-alone" unit with no connection to the computer / software."

Yes - also is the TC controller on a Merlin. But you can connect it to your computer at home (or in the field/hotel using a laptop) after the shooting and export the xml files of all the panos you shot into APG.
No need to connect it WHILE shooting. So here we also have a "stand-alone" unit - as we have using Papy on a Nokia/Merlin.
Last edited by klausesser on Tue Nov 30, 2010 3:01 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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by mediavets » Tue Nov 30, 2010 3:02 pm

klausesser wrote:
PanoMachine wrote:If you have any ideas please let me know - I can improve the device.

Hi Marc!

A Nokia N800/810 (together about 150-250.-€) running PapyWizard and controlling a Merlin-Head (about 250.-€) and the TC-Controller (made by Josef) both generate an xml file for making APG positioning even featureless images. So do the Dr. Clauss Rodeon series and the Gigapan head.

best, Klaus

The Gigapan heads do not record shooting position data.
Andrew Stephens
Many different Nodal Ninja and Agnos pano heads. Merlin/Panogear mount with Papywizard on Nokia Internet tablets.
Nikon D5100 and D40, Sigma 8mm f3.5 FE, Nikon 10.5mm FE, 35mm, 50mm, 18-55mm, 70-210mm. Promote control.

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by klausesser » Tue Nov 30, 2010 4:14 pm

mediavets wrote:
klausesser wrote:
PanoMachine wrote:If you have any ideas please let me know - I can improve the device.

Hi Marc!

A Nokia N800/810 (together about 150-250.-€) running PapyWizard and controlling a Merlin-Head (about 250.-€) and the TC-Controller (made by Josef) both generate an xml file for making APG positioning even featureless images. So do the Dr. Clauss Rodeon series and the Gigapan head.

best, Klaus

The Gigapan heads do not record shooting position data.

Ooops - but there´s an import filter in APG, is it?
So there could be an import filter for Panomachine?

best, Klaus
Last edited by klausesser on Tue Nov 30, 2010 4:15 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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by PanoMachine » Tue Nov 30, 2010 4:23 pm

Hi Klaus:

It is not always a matter of price but of the basic idea.
So far, the MK PanoMachine was motorized horizontal.
Now - since October 2010 - we offer in addition a motorized vertical drive.

The integrated software has been adapted and provided with new ideas.
Further, the profil of our L-bracket is now 12mm and the construction itself more stable.
Great emphasis was initially placed af the mechanics - which has to be perfect.
Fast and accurate ...

The firmware we can adapt.
So it's conceivable to open and to use the computer interface in the future.

Our philosophy is to use the best materials to the smallest details.
E.g. the very good drive system or the slip guard of the camera rail (upper rail)...


The future will come, the modular design helps with new ideas and improvements.

Thanks, Klaus for your constructive advices...

Have fun

Marc

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by mediavets » Tue Nov 30, 2010 6:06 pm

klausesser wrote:Ooops - but there´s an import filter in APG, is it?

Yes, it just uses its 'knowledge' of the gridd patterns shot by Giapan heads and make some assumptions - such as that images are in landscape orientation and about degress of overlap - to position images based on the sequence of image names and user input about number of rows/columns.

So there could be an import filter for Panomachine?

Yes, if the Panomachine supported the same shooting patterns as are supported for the Gigapan heads then you could use the Gigapan Import wizard/filter, although the initial orientation of the stitched pano iamge would be incorrect if the camera was mounted in a portrait orientation, because the Giagapn Import wizard/filter assumes that the images are in landscape orientation.

Alexandre also agreed to implement a more generic Import wizard/filter for any regular grid/mosaic image set, which woudl also accommodate images shot with the camera in a vertical orientation and using pateres other than those supported for /by Giagpan heads. Such a generic Import Wizard/filter would be fine for use with Panomachine image sets without that optional lone zenith image.
Last edited by mediavets on Tue Nov 30, 2010 6:13 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Andrew Stephens
Many different Nodal Ninja and Agnos pano heads. Merlin/Panogear mount with Papywizard on Nokia Internet tablets.
Nikon D5100 and D40, Sigma 8mm f3.5 FE, Nikon 10.5mm FE, 35mm, 50mm, 18-55mm, 70-210mm. Promote control.

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by PanoMachine » Tue Nov 30, 2010 6:33 pm

Code: Select all
Alexandre also agreed to implement a more generic Import wizard/filter for any regular grid/mosaic image set, which woudl also accommodate images shot with the camera in a  vertical orientation and using pateres other than those supported for /by Giagpan heads. Such a generic Import Wizard/filter would be fine for use with Panomachine image sets without that optional lone zenith image.

Yes, that will be a good way!

However I´ll look to improve the MK PanoMachine, too.

Have a nice time

Marc

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by gkaefer » Tue Nov 30, 2010 8:13 pm

PanoMachine wrote:
Code: Select all
Alexandre also agreed to implement a more generic Import wizard/filter for any regular grid/mosaic image set, which woudl also accommodate images shot with the camera in a  vertical orientation and using pateres other than those supported for /by Giagpan heads. Such a generic Import Wizard/filter would be fine for use with Panomachine image sets without that optional lone zenith image.

Yes, that will be a good way!

However I´ll look to improve the MK PanoMachine, too.

Have a nice time

Marc

marc, you can test papywizard using it in simulation mode (means, no merlin nor other currently supported head must be connected). You can save the simulated moves and so review the xml files created by papywizard and used for import wizzard on APG side... would be genoious if MK Panomachine could save its done movements in this xml format...

Liebe Gruesse,
Georg
Last edited by gkaefer on Tue Nov 30, 2010 8:15 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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