MKpanomachine  

Discuss the various motorized panoramic heads on the market, ask for advice, etc...
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Destiny
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Re: MKpanomachine

by Destiny » Mon Apr 04, 2016 12:05 am

Hi.. I am using a 64gig at 90MS/s.. I do not have that issue with my VR Drive.. I have set my D800 to shoot the smallest images since they are big enough using my 14-24mm and even using my 10.5 fisheye.. How big are your images, perhaps you have set them too big which would relate to your memory issue.. I shoot in RAW and JPGs.. I very rarely fill the card.. Cards are bigger and faster and much cheaper than when I bought my card.. You need to be very careful of pirated memory cards, sometimes hard to tell... Check the capacity on your commuter using a card reader.. I always format my card using the Camera before starting a new shoot..

I am glad you like using your MKP, I too would never go back to using a manual head.. But now I have owned a VR Drive II, I would never buy the MKP since I feel the VR Drive is much better for so many reasons.. I guess it has to be since it cost a lot more.. Anyone shooting heaps of panos would most defiantly benefit by buying a VR Drive II.. It was a big thing at the time to buy the VR Drive but we have never regretted buying it.. I partially love the ease of use and the HDR options.. My only disappointment is the lack of work in shooting panos in Australia.. Even that Google Sheet View seems to be sadly lacking. I very rarely see any on Google... Amazingly enough, our great gear is not what Google accepted at the time. Which to us was very stupid. There was also a self designated Google Street View guy who was up himself and suggested our quality was not to his liking. Its due to these circumstances we feel killed the Google Street View options in Australia. Now there is a mob making that iris360 with many stitching issues but Google have accepted as being OK to them.. It seems Google are content with showcasing poor media quality.. Mind you, I would still love to own one if I could get work in making Google Street View Tours.. I do not feel it was directly Google failure with the Street View Tours in Australia, but rather it was their fault in allowing a self designated arrogant guy to kills if off for them..

Anyway, not to worry since we feel that the simple pano Tours in Google Street View will soon be a thing of the past, since VR Video will take over.. Now that so many other hardware options are coming into the Virtual Reality Video market. We are certain that Google may well created their own VR Video Camara where they will make it very easy to upload to Google Street View.. Even if they do not develop their own VR Video camera, they will most certainly buy into a good hardware option to gain some control over it..

360 Virtual Reality Video is going to be the biggest and most dynamic new media ever created.

Destiny...

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Re: MKpanomachine

by rolly1 » Mon Apr 04, 2016 4:02 am

Hi Destiny hope you are well , the 2 SandisK 64 GIG 95MB/S cards came from MSY both slow down after 30 Frames , the 128 gig Lexar that slows down after 24 frames that came from B & H The 128 gig Lexar is a much faster card but is not supported by the D800 , ( The only Nikon Camera that supports that is the new D500 ) , the Lexar CF card 64 gig 1066X also came from B & H , Destiny I am using ( 600MM Lens ) not 14 to 24MM or 10.5MM fisheye , my problem is when I fill up the CF card it swaps to the SD card slot and the MK comes to a grinding holt . it's a problem you would run into if you use your 50 to 500MM on your VR Drive at 500MM in continuous mode like manual says to do , if you use stop start mode you don't have the problem because the memory card has time to keep up , I like continuous mode the hole thing runs so much smoother not usable in all situations though ,
Fine on the 360 deg video , and the gear that's about and lack of quality that's being accepted , I think Samsung have one that looks promising , but really the hole 360 video thing is just too expensive , cheers Rolly1

going back to best long tele lens for D800 Sigma has released a firmware upgrade for there 150 to 600mm lenses that improves focus speed by between 20% and up to 50%

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Re: MKpanomachine

by Destiny » Mon Apr 04, 2016 8:38 am

Hey.. I must be dumb.. I did not think about firmware for a lens.. Doest that mean I can download software for my 50-500mm for my D800 so it works better.. I have never read about that kind of thing.. I downloaded some firmware for my D800 but I never installed it.. I forget to.. How does the firmware work??

Yes.. I now understand about your card issue.. Continues shooting must slow it down. Have you tried making the images smaller.. I think a big drawback with the D800 is the size of the images.. I would like to shoot smaller images than is allowed.. I read that Sony have a new card, the D5 uses it.. But they are very expensive.. Its the XQD Type Memory.. Would love to play with a D5.. but its far too expensive for me.. :(

Destiny..

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Re: MKpanomachine

by rolly1 » Mon Apr 04, 2016 9:26 am

yes these new lenses are getting smarter , Sigma have bought out a lens dock for there new lenses , your lens is too old , the 2 150 to 600 lenses are the first to use it , instead of sending lenses to sigma you download the firmware from there site and do it yourself , Tamron are doing the same , but my lens is too old also , there dock has not come out yet , be interesting to see if canon and Nikon follow as well , all these new fast cards on the market and very few cameras can use them properly ,yes it works ok if I use JPGs or stop start shooting but I like to use RAW , I have an 128gig CF card coming from B and H that will help , Had a total Hip replacement since I spoke to you last have been out of action for a couple of months will be second half of the year before I can get serious with the MK got to get second one done yet ,going to be a long year cheers Rolly1

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Re: MKpanomachine

by rolly1 » Wed Apr 06, 2016 5:08 am

Well my 128 gig card arrived, 3 business days from US , can take up to 2 weeks from Sydney or Brisbane, and half the Australian price as well ,we get ripped of here for memory cards Destiny, my D750 gone back to Nikon for a shutter problem , part of the recall all D750s from 2014 to 2015 are having there shutters replaced free of charge , don't know when I am going to get it back , the hip problem limits me to places that I can drive too , so I can still use the MK so it's not all bad news , cheers Rolly 1

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Re: MKpanomachine

by Destiny » Wed Apr 06, 2016 12:32 pm

Hi.. Yes, totally ripped off.. It can take forever to receive stuff from Sydney.. Heaps quicker from Thailand.. But as soon as the post hits Australia post, the transport slows to a crawl.. I never buy memory cards from Aus.. As long as you buy from a good company like B&H, you should be ok.. Pity the exchange rate is so low for us.. Otherwise I would be buying more memory.. Have they change the GST yet.. Do we still pay for all products..

Destiny..

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Re: MKpanomachine

by rolly1 » Wed Apr 06, 2016 3:24 pm

Destiny there's no GST on goods under $1000 AU still , my 128gig card was just over $200 Au incl postage from b & h , from DDP just over $400 incl postage , for the same CF card , I hope they don't change the import duty on stuff , local companies have to be realistic how much they charge for things , I think anyway Rolly 1

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Re: MKpanomachine

by Destiny » Wed Apr 06, 2016 11:08 pm

Well that is really good. .. What is the link..

D..

rolly1 wrote:Destiny there's no GST on goods under $1000 AU still , my 128gig card was just over $200 Au incl postage from b & h , from DDP just over $400 incl postage , for the same CF card , I hope they don't change the import duty on stuff , local companies have to be realistic how much they charge for things , I think anyway Rolly 1

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Re: MKpanomachine

by rolly1 » Thu Apr 07, 2016 4:41 am

What do you mean ? , there never has been GST on goods under $1000AU ( that includes postage or freight charges etc ) , if you go to the Australian customs website, they tell you what has GST and what doesn't cheers Rolly 1 :) :)

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Re: MKpanomachine

by Destiny » Thu Apr 07, 2016 7:04 am

I mean what is the link to the memory card at B&H, the one you bought..

As far as I know, the $1000 freehold will soon come to an end..

Destiny..

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Re: MKpanomachine

by rolly1 » Thu Apr 07, 2016 7:34 am

Destiny just look up CF cards on B & H website 128 gig 1066X Lexar $142 US plus $40 US FedEx delivery = $182 US = $246 AU , if you go standard mail it's about $210 or so , DDP $396 plus delivery nothing has changed as far as GST goes maybe one day but not yet cheers Rolly 1

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Re: MKpanomachine

by rolly1 » Thu Jun 30, 2016 12:01 am

had the chance to try a Nikon D810 on my MKpanomachine yesterday and compared it against my D800 , on paper did not seem to be much different , but in use I could not believe the difference , in continuous mode the D800 has a big speed difference between the CF card slot and SD card slot , the D810 will run flat out in both slots same cards , The same as the D750 will , the D800 will not work in built in HDR mode , the D810 does with no problems the shutter is much smoother and quieter with less vibration on D810 , the biggest surprise I found and the most interest for me because I like to play with 600mm long lens panoramic pics is the electronic front-curtain shutter setting works so even less shutter vibration , and according to the owner the picture quality at 64 ISO is superb ,it was a very interesting few hours , as I said on paper not much difference but when pushed on motorised pano head a big difference especially at 600mm cheers Rolly1

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Re: MKpanomachine

by rolly1 » Wed Jul 20, 2016 12:27 am

Question has anyone tried a tilt shift lens on a panoramic head , looking at 24mm cheers Rolly1

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Re: MKpanomachine

by rolly1 » Thu Oct 13, 2016 1:57 pm

I think the Nikon D810 is the best DSLR camera , to use on the MKpanomachine or any other motorised pano head , I know that's a big statement, but when you put it in electronic 1ST curtain shutter mode and live view ( yes live view ) and use the MK in continuous mode , there is absolutely no shutter or mirror vibration that I can detect at 600mm focal length , any one else using D810 on a motorised pano head cheers Rolly1

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Re: MKpanomachine

by klausesser » Thu Oct 13, 2016 9:52 pm

rolly1 wrote:I but when you put it in electronic 1ST curtain shutter mode and live view ( yes live view ) and use the MK in continuous mode , there is absolutely no shutter or mirror vibration that I can detect at 600mm focal length , any one else using D810 on a motorised pano head cheers Rolly1


Sorry - but this is absolute nonsense and has nothing to do with 1st or 2nd curtain.

I share your view of rthe D810. Definitely. But the difference obetween 800 and 810 in terms of
image-quality is minimal. Slightly better dynamic.
No reason for a D800 user to update. But for a first-buyer of course the 810 is preferable.

But honestly: using continuous mode with 600mm lens you´ll get not ONE sharp image.
It´s just simple physics:

Take a calculator and calculate the lense´s FOV in relation to exp. speed and speed of moving, regard the DOF you need
to have with 600mm (which depends on the aperture) and the size of your pixels (it´s about 4,8um)

Using cont.mode first hand depends on the speed of moving. When you move with average speed
you´d need much shorter exp.times than using a very slow moving.
But using a very slow moving would give you NO ADVANTAGE AT ALL over stop-and-go mode.

For using a 600mm in "time-saving" :lol: cont.mode you would need a shutterspeed which the D8010 definitely
doesn´t provide at all anyway: roughly calculated around 1/25000sec for achieving a pixel-sharp image.
Achieving a less-sharp image - which means about 2-px-sharp (visibly blurred horizontally) image you might come away
using 1/12000sec.

D800/810´s shortest exp.time is 1/8000sec. So using a 600mm in cont.mode it´s blurred.

Can you imagine ths amount of light you would need for that??? Hardly the use of an average strobe-light
would povide pixel-sharp images on a 36MPx-sensor . . . . You´d need a hightech strobe for SFX providing
1/20000sec with a VERY short recovery . .

You need to calculate FOV/Pixel/Moving(spinning)speed)/DOF(related to aperture).

The larger the sensor the smaller the pixels, the smaller the FOV (focal-length), the faster the moves, the shorter you
need the exposure-time to be - not to forget you need an average apetrure of around f16 in most cases.

The amount of light needed for that is hardly imaginable . .

Continuous mode only makes sense using fisheyes. Or with cranking up the ISO to rather astronomical numbers . . . :-))

btw.: why using cont.mode at all??

My head provides 2 speeds - i sometimes(!) use it with fisheyes at about 1/2000sec. for really sharp results.
Using f8 for sufficient DOF it needs to be very bright.

best, Klau1
Last edited by klausesser on Thu Oct 13, 2016 10:28 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: MKpanomachine

by klausesser » Thu Oct 13, 2016 10:15 pm

rolly1 wrote:Question has anyone tried a tilt shift lens on a panoramic head , looking at 24mm cheers Rolly1


I have a 24mm T/S - but i don´t use it on my panoramic head because that wouldn´t make sense at all.

Klaus

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Re: MKpanomachine

by klausesser » Thu Oct 13, 2016 10:24 pm

rolly1 wrote: the D800 will not work in built in HDR mode . . .


Yes it does. If it doesn´t it´s a head´s issue.

I often use the D800 in bracketing-mode using the built-in featuring 3/5/7/9 brackets @1EV.
Alternatively i use the PromoteControl for different numbers.

best, Klaus

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Re: MKpanomachineb

by rolly1 » Mon Oct 17, 2016 12:26 pm

Hi Klaus hope you are well, many thanks for for making comments on my past posts that I didn't get any replies to or comments about ,

The HDR problem was about the built in 2 shot HDR setting I could not get that to work on the MK , have not tried my new D810 yet , must try that , of course the BKT as you said works great 3/5/7/9 on D800

The question about T/shift lens was , not sure how to describe it , when you take a pano over a landscape that drops off in front of you , even though you are changing the angle of the lens , the resulting picture doesn't show , to me anyway, the real look of the landscape , I was just wondering if a tilt shift lens using its adjustments would give a more realistic result , hope that makes sense

The only resemblance the D800 has to the D810 is they look the same and there both made by Nikon , under normal use there's not much difference , but when I use them on my MKpanomachine they ( behave totally different ) , It works more like it does with the D750 smooth and faster and both card slots work at the same speed
The most useful feature, that the D800 ( does not have ) is Electronic first curtain shutter , the Canon 1DX has it and most mirrorless cameras , best thing to do is google it for its advantages ,
After finding description on how Nikon uses its version of Electronic first curtain shutter , badly they add one step too many in normal shooting mode , but correctly in live view mode , so I tried live view mode on the MKpanomachine it works really well ,even in BKT mode ( only tried 3 shot BKT so far ) Klaus I can understand what you say ,
but the Roundshot VR2 drive manual recommends continuous drive for giga pixel panos and I get better faster results in continuous mode on the MKpanomachine , I do use a minimum 30% overlap ,
I am trying to send you a sample picture but I cannot add it on the iPad not sure why , will have to send it seperately from my laptop cheers Rolly1

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Re: MKpanomachineb

by klausesser » Mon Oct 17, 2016 2:40 pm

rolly1 wrote:The HDR problem was about the built in 2 shot HDR setting I could not get that to work on the MK , have not tried my new D810 yet , must try that , of course the BKT as you said works great 3/5/7/9 on D800


Thr built-in "HDR" has nothing to do with HDR. It´s a fusioning of two different exposures in the camera and NOT an HDR-processing in any way.

rolly1 wrote:The question about T/shift lens was , not sure how to describe it , when you take a pano over a landscape that drops off in front of you , even though you are changing the angle of the lens , the resulting picture doesn't show , to me anyway, the real look of the landscape , I was just wondering if a tilt shift lens using its adjustments would give a more realistic result , hope that makes sense


That would only make sense for a one-row panorama. But buying a T/S-lens for that would be like buying a Ferrari for
your daily drive to your bureau or so . . .

You can shoot a one-row pano having your camera slightly tilted downwards when you need more foreground and correct the distortion in the editor very easily - or use a wider lens.
The definitely better way is to shoot it as three-row. Here you have the best reserves to correct perspective-distortions.

But those distortions are most likely not needed to correct in landscape-photography - to a certain amount, of course.

Honestly: buying a motorized head for ONE-ROW panoramas means absolute nonsense in my eyes. One-row panos can be done in a charm using a manual a click-stop base.

Motorized heads are fine for multi-row panos - but less useful as long as they do NOT provide XML-data for the stitcher.

rolly1 wrote:"The only resemblance the D800 has to the D810 is they look the same and there both made by Nikon ,


wrong.

rolly1 wrote:under normal use there's not much difference , but when I use them on my MKpanomachine they (behave totally different) , It works more like it does with the D750 smooth and faster and both card slots work at the same speed
The most useful feature, that the D800 ( does not have ) is Electronic first curtain shutter , the Canon 1DX has it and most mirrorless cameras , best thing to do is google it for its advantages ,


I don´t know the PanoMachine well enough to give statements. But i know much about the VR2, Rodeon (now Pixpert), which i use occasionally and Panoneed (which i use constantly for years now).

On ALL these heads my D810 behaves exactly like my D800. Differences are minor and not related to panorama-shooting basically.
The real diference is 1) a slightly better dynamic, 2) a slightly better optical resolution due to the missing deep-pass - which on the other hand often produces problems with pano-shooting because of moiree.
Thst´s why i use the D810 for "common" photography i do - aside from panoramas.
For shooting my hi-res panos - of 1,4 to 11 Gigapixels average - i prefer to use the D800. That´s because you never can be sure NOT to have ANY structure in the images which produces moiree on a sensor without AA.
Eliminating the moiree - which usually works "so la la" - also eliminates the minimal step-ahead on resolution. This was with the D800E (which i hard first) and it´s also with the D810.
When it comes to the extreme - and that is what happens in my work - i prefer an AA-filter on the sensor:
http://klausesser.de/wp/wordpress/index ... stbereich/ (i did the shoot of the painting hanging on the building - 260 single pictures shot it with the D800 and 2,8/300MM ED Nikon lens.
https://www.calumetphoto.de/product/Nik ... GwodkBEJOA
Below on the site is a link to a deep zoom on the original painting)
The original painting is 1,20x12m - i shot it for getting printed on 12x27m@120dpi which you see in the image.

rolly1 wrote:Klaus I can understand what you say ,
but the Roundshot VR2 drive manual recommends continuous drive for giga pixel panos and I get better faster results in continuous mode on the MKpanomachine , I do use a minimum 30% overlap ,


I will not comment Roundshot´s recommandations - but i´m quite convinced even the Swiss people cannot tweak pure physics . . .

We talked about a 600mm lens. Does Seitz keep it´s recommandations also for this focal-lenghts ??
I absolutely don´t think so. Using speed-mode in an extrely bright environment with a 50mm lens and 1:14 it might work.
But it definitely wouldn´t work with a 600mm lens.

As i said already: there are formulas for calculating the minimum-exposure-time you need to use for a 600mm lens to achieve pixel-sharp images.

So again i suggest to you: learn more about photographical basics i terms of technical/physical relationships.

Manufacturer of hard- and software tend to describe the features of their products in more averagely ways - that´s
because they cannot know the way of use from EVERY user.

For that reason it´s very important to deal with informations on a base of yor own base KNOWLEDGE instead of ASSUMING - and ask the correct questions.

This relates to EVERY product on earth.

Klaus

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Re: MKpanomachine

by rolly1 » Wed Sep 27, 2017 12:19 am

Hi to every one hope you are all well , I am still enjoying my MKpanomachine apart my cameras D810 and D750 the MK is still my most used piece of hardware it’s been trouble free , apart from a bad solder joint in vertical drive DIN plug connection , ( ex printed circuit board assembler so that was easy fix ) it’s disappointing that it’s not made anymore, parts in the future could be a problem , and a change in the firmware would have been nice for finer settings with my 600mm lens , still happily using continuous mode , for good enough results for me , no moire noticed yet , must admit I use 150mm a lot and I use stop shoot a lot as well depends on the situation, had a play with a D850 the other day now that has potential to be the best camera for motorised robotic heads and VR photography cheers Rolly1 :) :)

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Re: MKpanomachine

by rolly1 » Wed Sep 27, 2017 2:03 pm

Just for interested people , a simple image , 12 X D850 Raw files stitched in APG then converted to JPG in photoshop cheers Rolly1
Attachments
647770D7-02A0-4DF4-9904-ADAD9B72DE79.jpeg
70mm at F5 ISO 1250 640th/sec

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Re: MKpanomachine

by rolly1 » Wed Sep 27, 2017 2:10 pm

Also taken on MKpanomachine , lens Nikon 70 to 200mm 2.8 VR1 APG 4.4.0 cheers Rolly1

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Re: MKpanomachine

by klausesser » Mon Oct 09, 2017 4:50 pm

rolly1 wrote:Just for interested people , a simple image , 12 X D850 Raw files stitched in APG then converted to JPG in photoshop cheers Rolly1



This is just one image, is it. What did you want to tell us?
Did you shoot it yourself? Is the camera available in your region already?

Could you show some real hires spheres? I´m thinking about buying a D850 and would like to see some very hires sample-panorama-stitches shot with it.

Klaus

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