GPU criteria  

Your computers are also an important part in the creation of immersive content. Discuss configurations and computer hardware here.
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gkaefer
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GPU criteria

by gkaefer » Mon May 18, 2015 7:19 pm

Dear Kolor Team,

I know several times on the Forum this or part of this was raised in past, but if I remember correct, no complete Image could be given (finally not to me ;-)

criteria I could Imaging playing a role for that:

I try to figure out which GPU criteria is relevant for
workflow:
+ working on single Projects, huge gigapixels etc.
+ working on average Projects (up to 500 Images or so) but simultanously on several Projects

Software:
+ stitching autpano panos
+ preview in autopano

+ creating panotours
+ editing tours

+ stitching 360 Videos
+ editing 360 Videos

GPU Hardware:
+ AMD or nvidia
+ GPU Memory
+ single precision
+ double precision
+ SLI
+ Crossfire
+ DirectX 11
+ DirectX 12

it makes big difference to invest 1300$ in one Titan x or use the same Money to invest in 3 gtx 980's... finally if the one or the other would not perfectly fit fot kolor products or only 1/3 of the Hardware could be used for this purpose....

danke im voraus!
Liebe Grüße,
Georg

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Re: GPU criteria

by klausesser » Mon May 18, 2015 8:26 pm

gkaefer wrote:it makes big difference to invest 1300$ in one Titan x or use the same Money to invest in 3 gtx 980's... finally if the one or the other would not perfectly fit fot kolor products or only 1/3 of the Hardware could be used for this purpose....


Hey Georg!

Seems it´s hard to get profound informations from Kolor - traditionally, aside from the first years when they were rather close to us users and listened to us . . . ;) :cool:

What i experienced regarding my MacPro 2x3GHzXeons, 8 cores 32GB and my PC i7, 64GB is that i had a very fine performance using a NVidia Quadro 2000 and 4000 card even with very big panos.
Editing and rendering both were very comfortable.
First i had a Quadro 600 on the MacPro (which "officially" shouldn´t work . . but i got it tweaked). That was a first step into this "Quadro-thing" . . ;) :cool:

Klaus

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Re: GPU criteria

by gkaefer » Thu May 21, 2015 10:26 am

no one from kolor?

you have the "Computer system guide", which is available here: http://www.kolor.com/wiki-en/action/vie ... stem_guide

here you state to discuss questions about this guide here:

If you have any questions or comments, please post them in http://www.autopano.net/forum/t6171-hardware-computer-system-guide


... this is a dead end link.... can you correct it?

so I rise my question here:

under Videocard you do write:

Currently, Autopano does not utilize the GPU in processes other than Panorama Editor, but that probably will change in time. The rendering engine inside 2.5 is OpenCL based, so some time in the future the rendering will gain a huge speedup from using the GPU. GTX 460 is a good investment too, as in the future you can get another and SLI them, which will beat almost anything within reasonable price range.


what changed meanwhile using rendering engine 4.0.1 ?
about SLI statement: does this mean SLI is supported since rendering engine 2.5 ?

regards,
Georg

PS: is it not common at least every six months to review the website for outdated data @ kolor ?

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Re: GPU criteria

by renan » Thu May 21, 2015 2:02 pm

There shouldn't be any preferences between AMD and NVidia. For AVP we are currently experiencing some problems with inbuilt Intel graphics cards.

We are looking to maximise compatibility so we don't use any advanced features. We mainly use GLSL 1.2, particularly to stay compatible on Mac.
There is no OpenCL, no directX and no multi-gpu support.

For the software, only certain parts are concerned by the GPU:
* Autopano's editor: It's mostly memory that is necessary, to handle the textures to be shown for Gigapixels and projects with many bracket levels.
* Preview and rending in Autopano Video: doesn't require enormous amounts of memory in standard cases of 6 cameras (it holds with 500MB but 2GB minimum is best because other applications and your system also need memory). Power allows your to speed up rending, which will ultimately be limited by disk access/speed and the CPU for the decoding and encoding of the videos.

Renan

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Re: GPU criteria

by Annis » Thu May 21, 2015 2:12 pm

gkaefer wrote:no one from kolor?

you have the "Computer system guide", which is available here: http://www.kolor.com/wiki-en/action/vie ... stem_guide

I'll have to point out that that Computer system guide is in the User Tips section, meaning the content of that page is user-written.

It is also outdated, as you have pointed out, but the link should have been removed, it seems that it has managed to come back.


gkaefer wrote:here you state to discuss questions about this guide here:
If you have any questions or comments, please post them in http://www.autopano.net/forum/t6171-hardware-computer-system-guide

... this is a dead end link.... can you correct it?

Dead link to a very old topic: viewtopic.php?f=6&t=6171


gkaefer wrote:PS: is it not common at least every six months to review the website for outdated data @ kolor ?


It generally is, but not on user generated content, and that page was meant to have been removed altogether since it is incredibly outdated.

Annis

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Re: GPU criteria

by klausesser » Thu May 21, 2015 2:54 pm

renan wrote:
For the software, only certain parts are concerned by the GPU:
* Autopano's editor: It's mostly memory that is necessary, to handle the textures to be shown for Gigapixels and projects with many bracket levels.


That´s what i always say: processing bracketed shots BEFORE stitching makes APG a much easier job compared to the use of bracketed stacks in APG for fusioning.

:cool: :cool:

Klaus

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Re: GPU criteria

by gkaefer » Thu May 21, 2015 6:29 pm

thanks for replys.
didnt notice that the guide is in real a redesinged layout of the old wiki maintained by users... ;-)

Georg

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Re: GPU criteria

by gkaefer » Thu Jul 16, 2015 9:46 pm

I've to reask to get more Detail.

so no preverence to AMD nor NVIDIA.
more GPU Memory may Speed up things (Video stiching, APG previews etc.) but wont Speed up rendering itself.

is a relevant factor to have Focus on single precision or Double precision values?
Is the number of shaders relevant?

AMD is now releaseing a new FirePro Series with 18GB and 36GB GPU Memory and with up to 5 TeraFlps single Precision and 2.5TFLops Dual precision..... about 10x the dual precision value of "gamer" GPUs like Titan X or GTX 980TI

I know 32GB Memory is far over the top for Panos.... ;-) but AMDs Server Cards for 1500€ have far les power usage than NVIDIAs, are less noisier and have more meory and far more dual precision power.

But having no Feedback from Kolor is in consequence a Show stopper to inves blindly Money without knowing if the Money is well spent.

In fact I would prefer a clearly Statement which says this or that vendor is prefered because of this or that specs.
if you Focus on Video productions than this Feature or that specs are useful to get Optimum power
if you Focus on General panos thsi or that is prefered for best performacne
or maybe if you're gigapixel junky than I should use These Hardware combination.

Liebe Grüße,
Georg

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Re: GPU criteria

by renan » Fri Jul 17, 2015 9:13 am

We do not have this kind of precision. For being objective we must have several cards on same computer, same OS... And repeat that on other computers and OS.
One general thing, is that we don't try to be efficient on one specific hardware. We try to be the more generic as possible and to find solution when we have compatibility issues.
So it's hard to say this or that card is the best. As said before in most usages, a "good" card will be enough because the process will be limited by other bottlenecks (CPU, RAM, disk...).

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Re: GPU criteria

by klausesser » Fri Jul 17, 2015 12:26 pm

renan wrote:So it's hard to say this or that card is the best. As said before in most usages, a "good" card will be enough because the process will be limited by other bottlenecks (CPU, RAM, disk...).


I assist here. In my experience the processor-speed and number of cores comes first, then the amount of RAM, then the speed of HD/SSD and the bus - and then the graphic card.
The grephic card seems to spee-up just editing - but not rendering.
Unfortunately it seems we do NOT have an advantage using "real hardcore"- or stacked graphic cards featuring pipelined GPUs and heaps of RAM in terms of speeding up the final rendering in a way it can be done with 3D-rendering in Maya, Max, C4D or some using a renderfarm.

Am i wrong, Kolor?

Klaus

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Re: GPU criteria

by FPierron » Tue Oct 06, 2015 10:39 pm

I can't find clear information about graphic card.
The benchmark Kolor have done is only with "gaming" card. What about the quadro family for example ? It is more expensive, but does it worth the expense ? I have to buy a new PC soon. I have seen some MSI / Dell that could fit my needs, but this point is important: as Klausesser started to explain : do I spend more money on the CPU (6 or 8 core), or on the graphic card (GTX vs Quadro), or to the RAM ( 8 or 32 go) or to the disk ( WD 7200 or SSD) ?
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Re: GPU criteria

by gkaefer » Wed Oct 07, 2015 2:55 pm

FPierron wrote:I can't find clear information about graphic card.
The benchmark Kolor have done is only with "gaming" card. What about the quadro family for example ? It is more expensive, but does it worth the expense ? I have to buy a new PC soon. I have seen some MSI / Dell that could fit my needs, but this point is important: as Klausesser started to explain : do I spend more money on the CPU (6 or 8 core), or on the graphic card (GTX vs Quadro), or to the RAM ( 8 or 32 go) or to the disk ( WD 7200 or SSD) ?


quadro makes no sense because of more costs against GTX cards: autopano does not make advantage of double precision qualities of a kepler card....
more RAM for handling bigger panos. 16 GB or 32GB I would suggest.... (with 8GB I had waiting cycles even with 30 image panos using tiffs)
SSDs instead of Harddrive for autopanos temp folder, for source files and for apg output dest. folder. One/two/or three SSDs is a quaetion of money...
more CPU cores to speed up most stages of renderphases (some stages remain single core limited)
more GPU Memory to have more editing/preview capabilites in apg. zooming into gigapixel pano is way faster with 6GB GPU than with a 2 GB GPU. rendering is nothing faster with using a 4000€ GPU card agains an 10MB onboard VGA card)

Georg

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Re: GPU criteria

by FPierron » Thu Oct 08, 2015 6:03 pm

Thank you very much Georg. It is clear for me. I had a doubt about the quadro vs GTX cards.
Now, I can look at the best compromise as I need a new laptop PC. I will try to find the best, which is not very easy. I have seen some Dell, Acer, MSI and HP. If anybody has advice. My highest budget is 1600 euros.
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Re: GPU criteria

by Christian Stüben » Tue Oct 27, 2015 10:55 am

coming late to this gpu criteria discussion, i only can give some experiences...

I just have switched from a windows laptop to a new (ahem, yes, a used) macpro 2010 5.1

To exchange the old 5770 video card that was inside the machine, i bought a gtx 980ti with uefi patch. And let me say, it works fine.

Did i say fine? No, wrong. Works perfect.

Autopano giga has gpu support, editor is really really fast.
Panotour, no problems.
ptgui with gpu support.
Photoshop with gpu support.
Lightroom with gpu support.
Cuda is working (single precision turbo fast, double precision slooow).
6 gb video ram will be enough for all needs i have today and in the future. (yes, nobody will need more than 640 mb ram :p )

And all both on the osx side and bootcamp with windows 7/10.

greetings from germany
Chris

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Re: GPU criteria

by RC Fisher » Wed Oct 28, 2015 5:36 am

Well I have a quick question. I have a hackintosh I use for most PS editing and video. I am just getting into AVP. my question is would it make a huge difference to upgrade from my current GPU, GTX650, to say a GTX970?

Thanks
Robert C. Fisher


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