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Sphericam 2, the 4K 360º Video Camera for Virtual Reality

PostPosted: Tue Jun 30, 2015 3:46 pm
by mediavets

Re: Sphericam 2, the 4K 360º Video Camera for Virtual Realit

PostPosted: Tue Jun 30, 2015 10:40 pm
by gkaefer
Looks promising. but demo Video also Shows unsolved Problems like non equal WB Settings and also minor to middle stitching Errors on bottom area (HD Version viewed). for Hobby usage I think ist too expensive.. for Sport enthusiasts for sure interesting... I backed meanwhile 27 Kickstarters.... except 2 all delayed some up to 1 year. so for 1200-1500$ I would not take this risk... currently still waiting for my 360cam struggling with Quality issues...
Georg

Re: Sphericam 2, the 4K 360º Video Camera for Virtual Realit

PostPosted: Wed Jul 01, 2015 12:20 am
by Destiny
Oh such a surprise! :rolleyes: Mean while other options are coming onto the market..

Personally, if I had pre-ordered, I would cancel since I am certain other options will be coming very soon..

One of the main obstacles I would suggest that this Cam has, is calibrating the lenses. NCtech made a comment about using lasers I think to calibrate their iris 360 cam lenses...

Question. If the Cam360 never makes it to the market, do you get your Kickstarter money back...

Destiny...

gkaefer wrote:... currently still waiting for my 360cam struggling with Quality issues...
Georg

Re: Sphericam 2, the 4K 360º Video Camera for Virtual Realit

PostPosted: Wed Jul 01, 2015 6:32 am
by gkaefer
its the risk of the backers... to 100%. no Money back in such a case.
Georg

Re: Sphericam 2, the 4K 360º Video Camera for Virtual Realit

PostPosted: Wed Jul 01, 2015 7:59 am
by Destiny
Oh man.. thats a big risk.. But I guess that if some one bought it on a pre-order that would be different.. But I guess if the company goes broke then that money is gone too.. I would never buy on a pre-order of that price. As for the Sphericam 2, no way.. Way too expensive and they are not offering anything new.. Same old same old stuff with poor quality and same inherent issues. There are already a number a Ball type designs. I feel anyone investing in that one.. even the Gold Plated one, what a joke, would loose their money..

Destiny..

Re: Sphericam 2, the 4K 360º Video Camera for Virtual Realit

PostPosted: Wed Jul 01, 2015 10:19 am
by mediavets
Destiny wrote:Oh man.. thats a big risk.. But I guess that if some one bought it on a pre-order that would be different.. But I guess if the company goes broke then that money is gone too.. I would never buy on a pre-order of that price.

This business has a promising history, Jeffrey Martin co-founded 360Cities and did deliver the Sphericam1 also funded via Kickstarter; and the other principlals involved seem to know what they are doing. This is not a few wildly aspirational over-educated twenty-something trustafarians in a trendy East London flat.

As for the Sphericam 2, no way.. Way too expensive and they are not offering anything new.. Same old same old stuff with poor quality and same inherent issues. There are already a number a Ball type designs.

I don't think $1500 is way too expensive, when you compare what it does to alternative setups. I think they do offer new things with Sphericam2; motion sensors and GPS, control over white balance, onboard stitching (or not), very compact, thereby reducing parallax issues, up to 60fps with global shutter (rather than rolling shutter).

I feel anyone investing in that one.. even the Gold Plated one, what a joke, would loose their money..

Destiny..

That probably is a 'joke' of sorts - 'aping' the gold smartwatch offer from Apple - Jeffrey has sense of fun/humour. I don't think people will lose their money.

Re: Sphericam 2, the 4K 360º Video Camera for Virtual Realit

PostPosted: Wed Jul 01, 2015 11:32 am
by Destiny
Well I encourage any new technology.. I get excited by it all.. But I do not have to agree with what they are all doing, since some are just toys.. I believe we are on the verge of new and better technology in both hardware and software.. With so many players coming onboard, it can only be a good thing. But.. I have yet to acknowledge a clear winner... There are some High-End players and many Low-End players.. and some we do not know anything about yet.. High-End would include Jaunt, with their Neo which is still under development.

I like the iris 360 which is looking good in may ways, but its only a still pano which to me is a good thing.. Shame it has some issues. One shot HDR panos to me is what I really want... So far I cant see any good Low-End options for 360 video.. To be honest, I feel that the 360 Cam will end up being a dud, but who knows.. I will keep an open mind with the Sphericam 2... I never saw the Sphericam 1 output..

Destiny...

Re: Sphericam 2, the 4K 360º Video Camera for Virtual Realit

PostPosted: Wed Jul 01, 2015 11:51 am
by mediavets
Engineering and optimisation for 360 still pano images and 360 video presents some similar but many different challenges.

I doubt we'll see a single device that's really good at both any time soon...but who knows?

This device aspires to do both:
http://www.videopanoramas.com/

Re: Sphericam 2, the 4K 360º Video Camera for Virtual Realit

PostPosted: Thu Jul 02, 2015 8:17 am
by gigajeff
Hi Everybody,

Thanks for voicing your thoughts about Sphericam.

I must say - the history of 360 cameras on Kickstarter is pretty awful and I must ask you to not associate us with other people, who have made promises that they haven't kept, and in many cases have been outright lying to their customers/backers for many months.

We are not like that.

I have a team of fantastic engineers who have a lot of experience in the architecture and design of industrial cameras.

This is not the first time any of us have done this.

Our current example is an early one but if you are somewhat familiar with the long process of yielding a high quality image from entirely custom electronics, you would see that we have come a long way. It was a little bit risky to publish any image examples at all before they are perfect, but I thought it would be better to show something rather than nothing.

The main thing I can say is this - GLOBAL SHUTTER 360 camera for under $2000? This is the only one you're going to see, maybe ever - at least for the next few years. There are some amazing applications for that, where a rolling shutter just is never, ever going to work.

Please post any more questions here and I'll be happy to answer them.

cheers!
Jeffrey

Re: Sphericam 2, the 4K 360º Video Camera for Virtual Realit

PostPosted: Thu Jul 02, 2015 8:50 am
by Destiny
Hi Jeffrey... When your are ready I would be happy to road test your unit..

Just some comments. If the images are not good, then don't post them for the sake of posting something. Is a big put off..
Also, do away with the Gold Plated unit gimmick. Perhaps if the unit becomes a world winner someone would want to pay for a Gold Plated Camera. But to try to sell that on a Kickstarter to me is just too gimmicky..

Make a serious camera with serious information and when ready showcase some seriously good media.. ... No one yet for me has made a seriously awesome HDR 360 Video Camera. The world is waiting... I really do believe 360 Video is an awesome media but I for one would not pay $$$ for poor results.... If the task was easy then everyone would be making them..

Destiny..

Re: Sphericam 2, the 4K 360º Video Camera for Virtual Realit

PostPosted: Thu Jul 02, 2015 8:59 am
by gigajeff
Hi Destiny,

It's a fine line though. If we post nothing, then we'll be branded as charlatans, peddling vaporware.

We are posting a new version today that is much improved.

"Make a serious camera with serious information" Sorry, but I thought that is what we are doing.

best,
Jeffrey

Re: Sphericam 2, the 4K 360º Video Camera for Virtual Realit

PostPosted: Thu Jul 02, 2015 9:20 am
by Destiny
The last piece of this statement is incomplete.. 'how do you create stunning HDR VR content in the first place?'

"Virtual reality has been touted as the next big thing since Neo took the red pill. And while the likes of Oculus Rift and Samsung are outbidding each other to create the the best VR viewing platforms, there is a critical part of the puzzle still missing - how do you create stunning VR content in the first place?"

I really hope you succeed in this.. As you have pointed out," ..who have made promises that they haven't kept, and in many cases have been outright lying to their customers/backers for many months." I wouldn't go as far as suggesting that they are lying, but perhaps just kidding themselves that they are on a winner...

I love the fact that the Sphericam 2 can view 360x180.. No other unit can claim that.. I look forward to seeing the end results. If its good I will tell you, but if its yuck I will tell you that too..

Destiny...

Re: Sphericam 2, the 4K 360º Video Camera for Virtual Realit

PostPosted: Thu Jul 02, 2015 9:39 am
by mediavets
No-one can offer HDR video.

Re: Sphericam 2, the 4K 360º Video Camera for Virtual Realit

PostPosted: Thu Jul 02, 2015 9:45 am
by gigajeff
Why not?

Re: Sphericam 2, the 4K 360º Video Camera for Virtual Realit

PostPosted: Thu Jul 02, 2015 11:44 am
by Destiny
Sure they can.. I saw a movie last year on TV, looked like it was toneyfied but it was HDR Video.. Here is how... or at least one way..

http://www.reelseo.com/hdr-video/

Destiny..

mediavets wrote:No-one can offer HDR video.

Re: Sphericam 2, the 4K 360º Video Camera for Virtual Realit

PostPosted: Thu Jul 02, 2015 11:52 am
by Destiny

Re: Sphericam 2, the 4K 360º Video Camera for Virtual Realit

PostPosted: Thu Jul 02, 2015 1:10 pm
by mediavets
Destiny wrote:Sure they can.. I saw a movie last year on TV, looked like it was toneyfied but it was HDR Video.. Here is how... or at least one way..

http://www.reelseo.com/hdr-video/

Destiny..

mediavets wrote:No-one can offer HDR video.


So...it can be done. But not I think in real time?

But...I don't think Sphericam2 people ever claimed that the Sphericam2 could/would do HDR video?

Re: Sphericam 2, the 4K 360º Video Camera for Virtual Realit

PostPosted: Thu Jul 02, 2015 3:45 pm
by gigajeff
Hi,

We will offer dual exposure @30FPS. That means, shooting at 60fps with 2 different exposures. Obviously, caveats with fast motion will apply, so this will be more useful in scenes that are more static (stationary camera and slower movement).

We will also offer multiple exposures at a lower frame rate.

thanks,
Jeffrey

Re: Sphericam 2, the 4K 360º Video Camera for Virtual Realit

PostPosted: Thu Jul 02, 2015 10:08 pm
by Destiny
Can't wait to see the results..

Destiny..

Re: Sphericam 2, the 4K 360º Video Camera for Virtual Realit

PostPosted: Thu Jul 02, 2015 11:10 pm
by mediavets
gigajeff wrote:Hi,

We will offer dual exposure @30FPS. That means, shooting at 60fps with 2 different exposures. Obviously, caveats with fast motion will apply, so this will be more useful in scenes that are more static (stationary camera and slower movement).

We will also offer multiple exposures at a lower frame rate.

thanks,
Jeffrey

At the higher frame rates is the stitching done in the camera or externally after exporting the video files?
............

Is the camera battery removable/swappable? If not, how long does it take to charge in the camera?

Re: Sphericam 2, the 4K 360º Video Camera for Virtual Realit

PostPosted: Sat Jul 04, 2015 1:34 am
by Destiny
I tried to view the Download version but it will not play.. =( It also seems me it would be better to do a test in a built up area so we can see the stitching of of the video.. Capturing video in a featureless drive is not a good test.. HDR will certainly help with this kind of sun scene.., imperative in Australia where the white light is even more apparent.. I would also consider some kind of Stabiliser so the video is not so bouncy.. I can see the Sphericam being used for Action 360, so a stabiliser would be very important. I have seen video captured on a boat going down the river. When processed in Final Cut, it was smooth.. Looked heaps better..

The other demo video going into a car pack, I put the video to full screen. I am using a 27" so I could look very carefully at the stitching quality.. Even though there were some issues, it was no where as bad as I have seen using a GoPro Rig..

I can really see that if you can get HDR/LDR Video to work, on this little camera, it will be amazing, also with stabilisers.
Looks like you are going to reach your goal... Well done on that... But it makes me wonder why the OTHER MOB reached way past their goal when to me it will almost certainly be a dud.. Out of curiosity, how many Gold Plated cameras did you sell? Sorry, I am not pledging for a camera, can't afford to.. I will be paying off my iMac for the next 3 years.. but I would still like to road test one..

Many companies saw many advantages in manufacturing in China, particularly cost, but now they are turning away from that idea since they have come to realise that quality control is hard to deal with in China.. Companies are now rethinking and starting to manufacture more locally.. I saw a program on TV about it as few weeks ago...

I am not certain but most 360 Video cameras I have seen do not shoot a single sphere as well.. It seems ether or... I would hope your camera can do both..

Destiny...

Re: Sphericam 2, the 4K 360º Video Camera for Virtual Realit

PostPosted: Sat Jul 04, 2015 3:49 am
by Destiny
Hi Jeffery..

Will these options be available with the first camera release..??

Destiny..

Re: FAQ...
Q1.. Will HDR / multiple exposures be available?
Yes, we will make it possible to shoot at a lower frame rate, and do multiple exposures. We aim to provide 30FPS with two exposures, as well as a larger number of exposures at a lower frame rate.

Q2.. Will time lapse / other frame rates be available?
Yes, it will be possible to shoot 1 frame per second / minute / hour, as well as do other frame rates in normal video such as 15fps, 24fps, 25fps.

Re: Sphericam 2, the 4K 360º Video Camera for Virtual Realit

PostPosted: Sat Jul 04, 2015 3:58 pm
by klausesser
Destiny wrote:... and more high end... http://www.red.com/learn/red-101/hdrx-h ... ange-video

Destiny.



Hope you know what you´re talking about??

Klaus

Re: Sphericam 2, the 4K 360º Video Camera for Virtual Realit

PostPosted: Sat Jul 04, 2015 4:01 pm
by klausesser
gigajeff wrote:"Make a serious camera with serious information"


:rolleyes:

gigajeff wrote:Sorry, but I thought that is what we are doing.


I agree, Jeffrey. You do!

Klaus

Re: Sphericam 2, the 4K 360º Video Camera for Virtual Realit

PostPosted: Sat Jul 04, 2015 4:18 pm
by klausesser
Hey Jeff!

gigajeff wrote:Obviously, caveats with fast motion will apply, so this will be more useful in scenes that are more static (stationary camera and slower movement).


Obviously, yes. Even hand-held shooting can be hardly done without issues. I´m experimenting
with that for quite a time - and i´m a well-trained cameraman, used to hold the camera steady,
Static scenes and a tripod, a good fluid-head and VERY SLOW pan and tilt (preferably never at the same time btw.)

gigajeff wrote:We will also offer multiple exposures at a lower frame rate.


Ok for still shots. Bad for movie. 2 steps@60fps=30fps already is quite challenging to shoot.
Think about 15fps or 12fps even with slow moving objects or camera . .

De-ghosting in postpro will be rather messy!

regards, Klaus