Google-cam  

Discuss cameras used for shooting panoramas, virtual tours or 360° videos (GoPros, DSLRs, one shot cams, etc..) and their various accessoires (lenses, monopods/tripods, etc...).
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Google-cam

by klausesser » Tue Jun 02, 2015 10:01 pm


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Re: Google-cam - iris 360

by Destiny » Tue Jun 02, 2015 11:03 pm

The quality seems quite good, partially the HDR.. Pity about the huge Nadir Footprint.. Perhaps it can be fixed with the Clone Tool. :lol:

If the panos can be sharpened it will help with detail. I am sure Real Estate Agencies will love this one... Shame it did not do 360 Video.. I guess that will be the next version.. I always said that a other options will be spring up and I would be many more options will emerge in the coming few years....

http://www.nctechimaging.com/krpano/vin ... index.html

http://www.nctechimaging.com/krpano/fur ... index.html

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Re: Google-cam

by klausesser » Wed Jun 03, 2015 1:21 am

Destiny wrote:
Perhaps it can be fixed with the Clone Tool. :lol:


Yep! Easily . . =D :cool:

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Re: Google-cam

by mediavets » Wed Jun 03, 2015 5:00 am

The sample images look good. HDR looks good. But Max. Res. is 8kx4k.

Nadir hole is rather large. I am surprised they don't have a feature that would incorporate a custom nadir logo patch.

I think its still too expensive for typical real estate use.

.....

I wonder how long it takes to process and render each image, and whether you have to wait for this before you can shoot the next image?

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Re: Google-cam

by klausesser » Wed Jun 03, 2015 12:04 pm

mediavets wrote:The sample images look good. HDR looks good. But Max. Res. is 8kx4k.


Right. Too few for a 2000.-$ device, i mean. Maybe 2 Kodaks mounted back by back might be much preferable . .

mediavets wrote:I think its still too expensive for typical real estate use.


Definitely!

mediavets wrote:I wonder how long it takes to process and render each image, and whether you have to wait for this before you can shoot the next image?


Good point! :cool:

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Re: Google-cam

by gkaefer » Wed Jun 03, 2015 3:00 pm

I'm again once more not impressed about quality. 2000 $ devices should handle stitches better with less massive errors. the lenses seems to align wrong such stitching errors cant come from stitching software....
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iris360  NCTech - Internet Explorer_2015-06-03_15-57-40.png

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Re: Google-cam - iris 360

by Destiny » Thu Jun 04, 2015 7:02 am

The chromatic aberration on that screen shot is horrible as with the quality and stitching.. The two links I posted have some minor errors as far as I can see, but nothing like this last screen shot.. For $2000, thats $2600 + Tax for Australia, and post and more.. will bring the unit up to about $3000.. No way.. why would you bother.. :rolleyes: For that kind of money you can buy a nice SLR and Pano head and software.. and have more fun and more use out of the camera.....

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Re: Google-cam

by klausesser » Thu Jun 04, 2015 2:44 pm

Destiny wrote:
For that kind of money you can buy a nice SLR and Pano head and software.. and have more fun and more use out of the camera.....


Yes. But the pont is: it´s ONE SHOT and it automatically stitches in-camera. So you get a final result from it.
Basically a good idea - which we saw some years ago on almost the same camera. Remember?

But nevertheless 2000.-+ is - in my eyes -
A) too expensive for hobbyists,
B) the quality is too bad for commercial work,
C) for real-estate the extremely big Nadir-hole definitely is a problem - and so is the bad quality,
which makes properties looking rather cheap.

BUT hey: we´re talking Google here :lol:

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Re: Google-cam - iris 360

by Destiny » Sun Jun 07, 2015 2:40 am

I have checked out heaps of their demo panos and found some not so bad but most have huge distortions and I also feel that what is the point in offering a zoom when their is no nice quality zoom to view..

The same mob as iStar make this camera for the purpose of capturing Google Street view VR Tours.. My question would be, my own VR Tours are a heap better than anyone of these in there demos.. Yet I was rejected by the Self Proclaimed Trusted Photographer here in Australia who stated he wanted to maintain high quality VR Tours. Ya sure!! :rolleyes:

https://www.google.com/maps/views/view/ ... 90&fovy=75

This one has huge distortions. But I would say out of all the One Shot solutions, this unit has the best HDR option.... I think on the whole it looks really good and natural..

I really like the design of the unit too.. But I wonder if they could think to allow the lenses to point down and run another shot so the two can be stitched tougher in the hope to reduce the Nadir Footprint. Either that, use better and bigger lenses to improve on the image quality..

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Re: Google-cam - iris 360

by Destiny » Sun Jun 07, 2015 10:54 am

Not sure how many images the iris 360 captures to make a HDR image but the iStar seems to capture 9 images. Its a real shame the Nadir Foot Print is so big. I would rather bring the angle of the camera lenses down so if needed add a Zenith Logo or crop the FOV in PTP and then that would reduce the huge Nadir Footprint to a more acceptable size.. If they could get the resolution better it would really help too.. Some demo panos seem to have very bad areas of distortion.. Not good at all...

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Re: Google-cam - iris 360

by Destiny » Sat Jun 27, 2015 12:17 am

Hi.. After viewing this product launch video discussion a the IVRPA show about the iris 360, I feel that this unit is the only one on track.. https://youtu.be/LCTfiIh_vEs Some of the technology behind the iris 360 comes from the iStar or at least its adapted from iStar technology. I really like the iStar but for me I don't like the price.. But there again, that unit is made for an entirely different use. 2K for the isis 360 seems fine but heaps more here in Aus.. :(

I am not entirely confident about some of the end results partially that huge Nadir Footprint.. But.. The camera has been made for a particular use. Google Street View.. As we know Google make a real dogs dinner of fixing the Nadir Footprint. But customers do not seem to mind.. The thing is, if you were capture many Street View VR Tours of businesses, the iris 360 would be a much better option than to use a DSLR setup.. For high quality then you it would be necessary to use an DSLR setup..

My husband was pointed to this page by Neil Tocher. http://www.nctechimaging.com/iris360-faq/nadir-options/
I still do not get it.. If you can capture the nadir using a mobile phone, where does that leave the HDR for that area of the pano.. But when you look at the end results.. WOW... did it really manage this.. http://www.nctechimaging.com/samples/ir ... tched.html

I ask myself about the resolution and feel its not good, but does it really matter.. Clients seem to not care.. This is VR Tours on a budget.. Perfect for Google Street View.. I have no idea how the iris 360 actually processes the the extra image for the Nadir patch and I am still very confused.. The angle of capturing the nadir image be low, and how does it remove the tripod legs...

I feel that if you could turn the unit about 20 degrees, then mount the unit in a U frame, then turn the entire unit 180 degrees, then capture a second pano, the nadir footprint would be gone and since there were more images, the stitching should also be better.. I feel that the reason for the strange distortions in the demo panos is due the way the images are pulled out of alinement to accommodate the Nadir Footprint.

If you listen to Neil Tocher, I would suggest better things are to come.. The have the answers and the technology but are holding back.. My feelings are is not to.. Perhaps a mid between the iStar and the iris 360 would allow them to justify implementing better options with the iris 360 MK2 =D

With the growing enthouisasm for the 360 video media, perhaps one day we will see an iris Cam 360 one day... =D

Just one last thing.. I noticed that all the testing was carried out in Europe.. Well, thats fine but here in Australia the White Light is far more complicated and intense to deal with.. The setup that might work in Europe might not work so well in Australia, particularly during Summer.. To capture the full dynamic range in the Australian environment would require a lot more images..

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Re: Google-cam - iris 360

by Destiny » Sat Jun 27, 2015 12:32 am

The resolution is 8K, which is supposed to be good.. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/8K_resolution
So why is the image quality not as nice as I would expect from an 8K image.. I wonder what ISO the camera is using..

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Re: Google - iris 360

by Destiny » Sat Jun 27, 2015 2:42 am

To be honest, I have never been that impressed with the iStar quality, and even the stitching is not perfect.. Considering its a very expensive unit.. http://www.360etours.net/pano/27263

The quality of image does not seem to be any better than the iris 360 for a fraction of the price.. But there again, the iStar can do so much more...

The ghosting of moving object including people always seems to spoil the pano.. That is why I do not like it when anything is moving in my pano.. With APG you have the Ghosting Tools but with the iris 360 and iStar it captured the EVs at different times.. Make me wonder why they cannot just capture in a single RAW image at just one EV then create the +/- exposures internally from the RAW images thereby reducing the Ghosting effect.. It should work ok.. Just a different way of working..

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Re: Google-cam - iris 360

by mediavets » Sat Jun 27, 2015 5:41 am

Destiny wrote:The resolution is 8K, which is supposed to be good.. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/8K_resolution
So why is the image quality not as nice as I would expect from an 8K image.. I wonder what ISO the camera is using..

Destiny....

8K is only 4K x 2K.

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Re: Google-cam

by mediavets » Sat Jun 27, 2015 6:32 am

Neil's talk at Prague mentions that in their beta testing they had people pay for the images. He doesn't say how much they paid for an image.

,......

He also seems to acknowledge that 360 video is the 'hot' topic but their new camera doesn't do video.

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Re: Google-cam - iris 360

by Destiny » Sat Jun 27, 2015 6:56 am

Yes, I was thinking that too.. I wonder what people are prepared to pay.. You might remember that I tried to do the Google Trusted Photographer, but I never heard from Google themselves but the only person I talked to was a self appointed person in charge, who was not so nice and rejected me ... I could never imagine having to deal with him.. I complained to Google but they never responded.. I was wondering if I had an iris that I would try again, but not having anything to do with that guy.. I deal direct with Google or nothing.. I have had a few people ask me about doing Google Street View but I certainly did not pass them to Google. I know lots of shops in town so I do not think it would take much to get some of them to come on board and allow me to capture their business..

I would really like to road test an iris but they are not available yet.. I want to know if the demos were actually done by the iris or as Neil said, during the early days, the images were processed on a workstation. Does that mean that the good quality panos were or the bad quality one's were.. There is a distinct difference between them.. I really do not like the distortion of the images on some.. But others are really good.. I feel that the HDR is the best out of all the units we have seen so far. Some of the images have too much Chromatic Aberration but others are fine. Some of the stitching is absolutely terrible but others are good... I have so many question on this. could it be that some of the units were not calibrated correctly.. There is just variance in quality that it makes me wonder so much about the real output quality.

If the images were captured in RAW, then processed internally, the software could remove the Chromatic Aberration and also sharpen the images. I really do not feel we have seen the best that NCTech can produce yet... They seem to be hesitant in using the technology they have to its full potential.

Destiny...

mediavets wrote:Neil's talk at Prague mentions that in their beta testing they had people pay for the images. He doesn't say how much they paid for an image.

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Re: Google-cam - iris 360

by Destiny » Sat Jun 27, 2015 7:00 am

Still do not know what that really means. But what I can say is its not good.. They are only little lenses but I am sure they could do better.. If the ISO is too high, when fusing the images that can destroy the sharpness. They need to make sure that the ISO indoors is not more than 200 but better to be 100... If too high, the pixels when fusing can go blurry..

Destiny...

mediavets wrote:
Destiny wrote:The resolution is 8K, which is supposed to be good.. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/8K_resolution
So why is the image quality not as nice as I would expect from an 8K image.. I wonder what ISO the camera is using..

Destiny....

8K is only 4K x 2K.

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Re: Google-cam

by mediavets » Sat Jun 27, 2015 7:05 am

I presume the stitched pano image is 4K x 2K pixels?

,......

Of course Nctech are reluctant to apply all their technology in the iris360 because if they did so they could not meet a 'consumer' level price point and they would also risk cannibalising their high end product's market.

But successful mass market tech companies have to risk cannibalising their existing products with new models. The short product life cycles of smartphones and tablets exemplify this.

They seem somewhat uncertain as to which market they wish to be in - low end or high end. I doubt a small company like Nctech can play successfully in both markets and I sense that they are more comfortable in their existing high end market. Do they have the resources to handle a higher volume lower end product offer?

.......

They seem concerned about the nadir footprint of the iris360 despite reporting that beta trial paying customers did not raise objections about it.

They mention several options for handling the nadir 'hole'. A logo image, a mirror ball image with logo, or a blended nadir shot with a separate camera. All options can apparently be handled in-camera but they don't say how this can be done.

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Re: Google-cam

by mediavets » Sat Jun 27, 2015 7:40 am

I haven't checked out the new rules relating to the Views and GTP programmes, but it seems they will remove some of the restrictions that applied previously to the GTP particularly regarding geographic limitations, pricing and contracts.

If you then add a product like iris360 into the mix where does that leave those who have tried to build a business based on the GTP programme?

And if iris360 is that much more productive could anyone make a living with one - after all you can only shoot panos for a small high street retail business (the suggested target market) once, they are unlikely to invite you back, and be willing to pay again, every 3 months or perhaps they would be keen to update with the changes of season if the price was right? But there may well be more photographers chasing the same customers too.

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Re: Google-cam - iris 360

by Destiny » Sat Jun 27, 2015 8:21 am

To be honest, I really feel that Google see the iris 360 as a bit of a bonus.. They are very keen to get the Street View up and running with any more shops taking up the option to have their business on Street View.. GTP are really just a bunch of gofers doing their work for them at a low cost option, nothing wrong with that as long as they support those doing it. At the moment, I do not see many businesses at all with Street View.. Therefore I feel that there is still a huge opportunity.. You could offer to update every 6 months if they change their arrangements at a discounted price.. I was told not long ago that Goole have changed heaps about the Street View VRs.. They were far to restrictive but now I think you can add galleries, which means you can use PTP.. Not sure how that works since you will need to upload the files to support it.. To be honest I feel Google has made a right dogs dinner out of the entire Street View Program.. or should I say, those who have organised it all.. I am sure it could have been better organised and managed.. The entire structure of the program should have be macro-ed and mirco-ed managed to form a whole from the onset..

Have you, when using Google Maps, ever found a Street View to go into a Shop.. I had a company who asked me to do a quote for VRs but they compared my price with Google Street View prices, and I was going to add Galleries, Google Map, Navigations and more.. I pointed out that and the fact that if they did use the GTP do the VR Tours for them, it would all be a bit pointless since the name outside of their business was the old shop before they moved in since the Google Maps were out of date.. All they would be doing is promoting anther business name..

Destiny..

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Re: Google-cam

by mediavets » Sat Jun 27, 2015 1:54 pm

I think I tend to agree with you that Google's association with Nctech is opportunistic, although that may 'work' both ways. NCtech obviously think so and hence are happy to put Google Street View branding on their new iris360 camera.

I watched the presentation Charles Armstrong, Product Manager for Street View at Google, presented at the recent IVRPA meeting in Prague.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6KubmUOER8U

He's a smooth and fluent presenter but ...this seems to be the same guy who's LinkedIn 'CV' omits to mention his time as CEO of a panorama hosting service company called Tourwrist that he co-founded that took over the long established panoguide.com web site and forum and effectively destroyed it, failing to win/retain the trust of the forum community by some rather clumsy attempts to use the forum as a marketing tool and failure to manage spammers and trolls.

http://www.83degreesmedia.com/features/spark061411.aspx
http://blog.foundersnetwork.com/2012/04 ... tourwrist/

Tourwrist (which I read took in at least $150,000 of funds) effectively disappeared in 2 years apparently morphing into Spherical Inc. which also now seems to be dormant/moribund whilst Charles moves on again to 'bigger and better' things at Google.

http://venturebeat.com/2012/04/18/tourw ... orama-app/
https://www.linkedin.com/company/tourwrist
https://angel.co/charlesarmstrong

Perhaps this is typical of a successful US entrepreneur. But given Google's track record of purchasing companies and investing in but later casually abandoning novel projects, if I was NCtech or Giroptic I think I'd wish to sup with a long spoon.

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Re: Google-cam - iris 360

by Destiny » Sat Jun 27, 2015 10:50 pm

ha... Like I said.. Google Street View is being poorly managed.. I wonder why... :rolleyes:

Having the Google Logo on the iris 360 will surely make it easy to sell the programme.. Just walk into the business with the camera in tow and at eye level to the shop owner.. haha...

If the iris does what it supposed to do then you would be in and out in 15 minutes.. Little disruption to shopping traffic.. Also, since the camera is all in one, small spaces would be great for it.. No having to turn the head, reducing human error.. If Google have accepted that output quality then people like I encountered would not have a say in the matter....

I wonder how long the batteries last and how big the memory card is.. Basically, how long can you shoot before returning home.. How many panos can be captured???

Neil mentioned that price was big issue.. Sure is, since the Aus $ is low.., and with tax it might well be closer to $3000 Aus..

Destiny....

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Re: Google-cam

by mediavets » Sat Jun 27, 2015 11:39 pm

Destiny wrote:ha... Like I said.. Google Street View is being poorly managed.. I wonder why... :rolleyes:

Having the Google Logo on the iris 360 will surely make it easy to sell the programme.. Just walk into the business with the camera in tow and at eye level to the shop owner.. haha...

If the iris does what it supposed to do then you would be in and out in 15 minutes.. Little disruption to shopping traffic.. Also, since the camera is all in one, small spaces would be great for it.. No having to turn the head, reducing human error.. If Google have accepted that output quality then people like I encountered would not have a say in the matter....

I wonder how long the batteries last and how big the memory card is.. Basically, how long can you shoot before returning home.. How many panos can be captured???

The rechargeable, removable lithium Ion 7.5v 6500mA is said to provide "approximately 4 hours battery use depending on capture settings".

It uses microSD cards.

So I guess one can o go on shooting for as long as one has additional batteries and microSD cards.

Neil mentioned that price was big issue.. Sure is, since the Aus $ is low.., and with tax it might well be closer to $3000 Aus..

Destiny....


I think I read on the irsi360 web site a statement that the device was so productive and efficient that one could shoot a whole high street of shops in an afternoon...OK, so what will one do tomorrow afternoon, and next week, and next month.

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Re: Google-cam - iris 360

by Destiny » Sun Jun 28, 2015 12:16 am

emm. The thing about Australia, most shops are in Shopping Centres. The high street shops are closing down... In our town of Ipswich, the council have installed parking metres. Big mistake since now the shops are closing.. Where people would once just drop in for a quick shop they don't anymore.. I have seen For Lease on the front of so many empty shops... Shops come and go so fast that how can it be possible to link the Google Map to a business long gone..

I still do not know where the Street View shops are.. I have tried to find one to walk into from my Mac.. Where are they all. I would have thought that the normal Google Map would have some kind of icon for those shops where you can go into.. Or did I miss something....

Destiny...

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Re: Google-cam - iris 360

by Destiny » Sun Jun 28, 2015 12:27 am


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