Livepano layer mask visible in chrome  

Have a problem using Livepano? Have you encountered a bug that needs fixing? Please post it here.
Des difficultés à utiliser Livepano ? Avez-vous découvert un bug qui doit être fixé ? Postez les ici.
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ungeherr
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Livepano layer mask visible in chrome

by ungeherr » Fri Aug 04, 2017 2:44 pm

I've followed every step in your livepano youtube tutorial and ended up with this http://tour.swedvr.se/livepano/live.html

Everything looks great except the fact that there's a huge visible layer in Google Chrome. It's perfect in Microsoft Edge but no one uses Edge except old and novice people.

I know the LivePano FAQ states that different web browsers might show this layer mask more or less but the LivePano tours in Kolors own gallery works flawlessly in Chrome. http://www.kolor.com/livepano/#gallery

Why and what have I done wrong?

I first thought it was the white balance of the video which was a bit different from the photo. I've attached an image without color correction. You can see that the white door is more red than the white wall.

I fixed the color of the video and you can see in another attachment that it looks much better.

But in both images taken with Google Chrome, the area outside of the door looks exactly the same. If it was the color of the video which is the issue here, then the area outside of the door would look different in those two images but it doesn't.

I use the latest version of everything and the issue is consistent on both desktop and mobile device.

So back to the question. How do I make the layer disappear in Google Chrome?
Attachments
Edge_colorfix.JPG
Chrome_no_coloring.JPG
Chrome_colorfix.JPG

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Re: Livepano layer mask visible in chrome

by ERR » Fri Aug 04, 2017 6:00 pm

The browsers aren't the issue. I've developed several live panos without this issue but after the last (or second to last) version of PTP it changed. Now I (and others) get the same result. The "unfeathered", unblended video "box".

Color correcting won't help no matter how precise. It's a masking issue.
The sun will come out, tomorrow... Well if not tomorrow then at least in 4 years and if not 4 years then most definitely 8 years max. But hopefully in 1 year or less.

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Re: Livepano layer mask visible in chrome

by Annis » Mon Aug 07, 2017 9:23 am

From Livepano's troubleshooting:
Color issues or the border of the mask is visible with different results in different browsers
  • - The mask will always be visible to some extent.
  • - When you "mask", you define which part of the generated video will contain the original video (the moving area). Outside of the mask, the video will contain the panorama, because a video always has to be a rectangle.
  • - The mask may be more or less visible (like slight colour differences) depending on the browser, as browsers all have their own codecs and decode videos in HTML5 differently. There is currently no standard for these codecs, and Kolor nor Panotour have any control over this.

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Re: Livepano layer mask visible in chrome

by ERR » Mon Aug 07, 2017 5:12 pm

Salut Annis. It sounds like you're saying that the browsers have changed "something" which has made the video/mask so much more visible? This wasn't an issue at all in previous versions?
The sun will come out, tomorrow... Well if not tomorrow then at least in 4 years and if not 4 years then most definitely 8 years max. But hopefully in 1 year or less.

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Re: Livepano layer mask visible in chrome

by ungeherr » Mon Aug 07, 2017 6:24 pm

ERR, I'm still investigating this and you can help me out with the final piece of the puzzle.
I believe I know what has been changed in the later versions of panotour but I have trouble finding demos with a visible mask so I can confirm my theory. Humm, wonder why no one wants to publish their work when the mask is visible :p

Please download and install this software https://mediatab.mediaarea.net/ and right click on your video file, choose properties, media tab and scroll down to "color range" (which is in the end of the video section)

If it says "Full" under color range, then we've found the issue.

The the mask is visible for me when the video color range is full. On all the working (less visible mask) livepano demos that I've found, the color range is "limited".

When I make the same demo in panotour 2.3 the mask is still visible even though the video output color range is limited, but... this is probably because I made a poor job matching the color of the video and photo.
Panotour 2.5.8 is much better at matching the colors, plus the video quality is higher.

Kolor has actually done a good job improving livepano, their only mistake was that they changed the range from limited to full. Why wouldn't they. It sounds better and from everything I've ready, it should be set to full. but...

I can't say I fully understand why limited is better for Google Chrome.
With sRGB which is used for the images, black is 0 and white is 255. This is also the case with "full" RGB. So from that aspect,kolor is already using the correct color space, but as you have noticed with the mask, the bright areas are too bright and the dark, too dark. With "limited" RGB, black is limited to 16 and white 235.

Here are two forum threads discussing the difference between video color space and full VS limited RGB.

https://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?t=172843
https://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?t=164378
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Re: Livepano layer mask visible in chrome

by ERR » Mon Aug 07, 2017 9:39 pm

Well, I can check the video out in Premiere Pro, Avid, Sony Vegas and Resolve but cannot download unfamiliar software due to security issues. It sounds like you're on the right track though. Now if you can get Kolor to respond... No matter what, for any other purpose(s) than personal, having this issue is not a viable solution for paying clients. It just makes (us) look bad. Can't have that "marginal" type of work floating around. :/
The sun will come out, tomorrow... Well if not tomorrow then at least in 4 years and if not 4 years then most definitely 8 years max. But hopefully in 1 year or less.

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Re: Livepano layer mask visible in chrome

by ungeherr » Mon Aug 07, 2017 11:43 pm

Annis will definitely reply. They can't afford to ignore my discovery if it's real. Every second post they get in the livepano section is about this issue.

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Re: Livepano layer mask visible in chrome

by Annis » Tue Aug 08, 2017 1:30 pm

I can certainly add your findings to the open "bug" on this subject, but it is related to how different browsers decode videos in the HTML5 player.

You wouldn't have noticed this in any version before 2.5 because it is the flash player that was used in priority, which is more evenly supported across browsers.

There have been some improvements made to the video compression and quality of the Livepanos, but the mask will still be there.

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Re: Livepano layer mask visible in chrome

by ungeherr » Tue Aug 08, 2017 2:33 pm

Annis, I'm sorry to say that you sound like a broken record. We all know about the browser issue. We also already know that flash works better.
Trust me, I've tested both html5 and flash. And while we're at the subject. I can't force flash in the latest version of panotour. I get an error. It works when I try with older versions so it's definitely another bug that you can report to the open "bug".
I might be using a harsh tone against you and your team but that is because I feel that you've handled this case poorly. You constantly blame the browser without trying to find a way around it. You would have noticed the same thing as I did if you had only focused on solving the issue instead of thinking that it's impossible.
I hope this is a lesson for future issues because the message you send right now is that panotour and its customers has a very low priority.
You don't mind fixing minor bugs and keep on selling the software but what new features have you presented lately? Garden gnome is very open about their future plans, has great support and constantly update pano2vr with new features.
The only reason why I bought panotour with livepano is because the current video work flow is a lot easier with your software.
I hope you share my frustration and you're welcome to forward this post to your bosses as an example of what your panotour customers think about your current priorities.

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Re: Livepano layer mask visible in chrome

by ERR » Tue Aug 08, 2017 6:50 pm

Well, it's openly been admitted that GoPro has been dictating the Kolor team exclusively concentrate on the 360 video. I actually feel "bad" for the Kolor team (not the rich founders who made out nicely in the acquisition). Kolor (had) a great software selection and a dedicated team. Unfortunately for us, the end user, GoPro did to Kolor exactly what Google did to Nik. They "cherry picked" a piece of software (but acquired the whole company) which suited their immediate needs and put all the resources into it at the expense of other apps. Yet another avoidable mistake by GoPro. Seems like they can't get their act together at all. From alienating core users of the Hero (app) by mandating a login every time to screwing us with PTP.

When I purchased the suite of APG, PTP and LV, there were quite a few impressive options on the market. G-gnome was at the top of the list but like Ungeherr, one main reason I purchased PTP was because of the "live view" option. Now after only a couple of years it's become commercially useless because of the visible mask. Partly because of the demise of flash but mostly, as Ungeherr aptly points out, because of the lack of interest by Kolor (GoPro) to make it work (fix). This issue most certainly can be fixed and they have the expertise to do it. GoPro just won't because they (wrongly) assume it's all about the 360 video these days.

On top of all that G-Gnome smartly integrated the (free) Google API for Street View which is a huge plus for 360 creators. Kolor on the other hand just ignored it. Perplexing to say the least.

I will end by stating that had I known Kolor would abandon PTP users by ignoring issues and declining to incorporate the Google API I would have purchased Pano2VR instead without hesitation because they seem to "get it".

I still think APG is the best all around stitching solution out there but sadly PTP has rapidly become irrelevant.

PTP with working Live View and integrated Google API could have crushed the competition easily.
The sun will come out, tomorrow... Well if not tomorrow then at least in 4 years and if not 4 years then most definitely 8 years max. But hopefully in 1 year or less.

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Re: Livepano layer mask visible in chrome

by ungeherr » Tue Aug 08, 2017 8:23 pm

Oh, so they have even admitted that they don't care about panotour? If I had known, I wouldn't have gone through with the purchase. They don't seem to have any refund option as I told them only two weeks after my purchase that I wanted a refund because of livepano. Their sales people blamed the browser and said that It wasn't a valid reason.

ERR, did you have time looking at your video file? I'd like to write in the other thread that we've found the solution.

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Re: Livepano layer mask visible in chrome

by ytremblay » Fri Sep 29, 2017 1:44 pm

Hi Annis i have made several live pano and project for custommer and i never had the problem with the mask and the contour everytime I made a livepano the contour was invisible since I did an update of my software ptp i got the problem so there is something wrong about the update

You should look at the script of live pano or the ptp itself, is the last krpano is integrated and has been updated as well at the same time of the ptp last update ?

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Re: Livepano layer mask visible in chrome

by Annis » Fri Sep 29, 2017 1:53 pm

If you were using Flash, (before 2.5) first, then the mask was less visible (but still there if you really looked for it). That's the difference and there is unfortunately nothing we can do about that.

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Re: Livepano layer mask visible in chrome

by ungeherr » Fri Sep 29, 2017 1:57 pm

Hi Ytremblay,

Kolor knows about this issue and they know how to solve it but they don't have the resources since they focus all their manpower on Autopano Video. We just have to accept the situation until they fix it or hope that Garden Gnome improves the work flow for their equivalent to LivePano.

//Anders

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Re: Livepano layer mask visible in chrome

by ytremblay » Fri Sep 29, 2017 1:59 pm

Ok thanks

for Garden Gnom do you have a link for the equivalent of the livepano ? thanks

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Re: Livepano layer mask visible in chrome

by ungeherr » Fri Sep 29, 2017 2:48 pm

Their result looks like this: https://ggnome.com/samples/pano2vr_5/blacksmith/
The workflow seems quite cumbersome and the tutorial is old: https://ggnome.com/wiki/Pin_and_Align_V ... Pano2VR%29
I just asked them in this thread if they have improved the workflow https://ggnome.com/forum/viewtopic.php? ... 925#p50925

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Re: Livepano layer mask visible in chrome

by ytremblay » Fri Sep 29, 2017 2:52 pm

the quality is quite impressed compare to livepano so far we see a line in the bottom but the rest looks pretty good

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Re: Livepano layer mask visible in chrome

by Annis » Fri Sep 29, 2017 3:05 pm

ytremblay wrote:the quality is quite impressed compare to livepano so far we see a line in the bottom but the rest looks pretty good

The green line at the bottom is a decoding bug on Chrome on videos, it also occurs on Livepano and video hotspots made with Panotour.
I agree though that video looks great.


ungeherr wrote:Kolor knows about this issue and they know how to solve it
I would love to know where you heard/read that and if so, what is the solution?

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Re: Livepano layer mask visible in chrome

by ungeherr » Fri Sep 29, 2017 3:09 pm

Hi Annis The solution is in this thread and you yourself said that you will look into it.

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Re: Livepano layer mask visible in chrome

by bdd » Fri Sep 29, 2017 3:30 pm

Hi Anders,

Such answer is useless.
Re-read this thread, and point out where Annis told you we will look into it.

Prefer detailed and argumented answers to contemptuous ones.

If you know the solution of the issue we will be pleased to read it,

Gérald

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Re: Livepano layer mask visible in chrome

by ungeherr » Fri Sep 29, 2017 3:46 pm

Hi Gerald,

Nice to finally get your attention.

When you made the last update, or maybe it was the update before that. You changed the video color profile on exported video though livepano from "limited" to "full". Obviously Chrome doesn't like that.

I've only made 15 posts in total so you can easily find a more thorough explanation by clicking on my number of posts or by simply scrolling upwards.

Annis read my posts and replied that you will look into it. Hence you know about where the issue lies and how to solve it.

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Re: Livepano layer mask visible in chrome

by osamaaf » Fri Oct 06, 2017 3:36 am

Any update on this Kolor?

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Re: Livepano layer mask visible in chrome

by signmaster » Fri Oct 06, 2017 7:11 am

The problem does make the product unsaleable, so would be great if Kolor put some effort into solving it. I must say that Panotour is a fantastic piece of software, good work flow, the plugins are great and the end product works well on a lot platforms (except for Livepano). I really hope that they continue developing the software. I am not so worried if they don't implement the Google API as Google has almost destroyed their Google Tours anyway. Incidentally Garden Gnome's Livepano equivalent has the same problem with the mask visible.

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Re: Livepano layer mask visible in chrome

by ungeherr » Fri Oct 06, 2017 7:37 am

Yes, the Garden Gnome's Livepano equivalent is also visible if you are looking for the mask. It's very hard to match the colors of the video and photo perfectly but it isn't nearly as bad as kolors livepano after their latest update.

I'm confident that kolor will fix this as it looks like they made a simple mistake in the encoder when they fixed a couple of other things.

It's just sad that their first reaction was that it wasn't their own fault. I'm pretty sure they never looked for any solution since a novice like myself could find it.

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Re: Livepano layer mask visible in chrome

by osamaaf » Fri Oct 06, 2017 12:33 pm

@Kolor, I hope u can read all this discussion. We want Panotour Pro to be the best so that is why we r trying to help u guys. I have created topics as well on this issue but did not get any response. I m glad to know that people are here discussing the same issue that I thought i m alone at. Because now I feel to get a fix for this.

We all are creative agencies. Our clients are unhappy on this. We have to simply prevent offering Livepanos any more and this is not a solution as they are asking again and again that when do we re-launch this wonderful service.

Looking forward.

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