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#1 2010-07-08 23:19:11

scabadaska
New member
Registered: 2010-07-08
Posts: 3

Large Format Emulation (4x5 - 8x10)

Hi all,

This is my first post here. I tried searching for this topic first but couldn't find much of what I was looking for. I am very, very new to the world of panoramic photography. I have a slightly different interest in it then what I see mostly on the web. As opposed to creating gigapixel shots for web or sweeping landscapes I am trying to instead achieve very normal shots just emulate the resolution and quality of large format film.

Just as a dumb example, I have attached a simple picture of a car. Have a look at that image. Say I wanted to make that exact same shot but with multiple frames to achieve great resolution and detail for print.

My current setup is a 5D mark II and the Nodal Ninja 5. I was trying to do this with an 85mm lens but I get the feeling that I might need a longer focal length because when I try with the 85mm I seem to get too much distortion from having to be entirely too close to the subject to get "pieces" of it. Now, obviously this wouldn't work well with people, but that's not really my concern.

So, I guess I am just looking for general advice because I really don't know where to start. I like what Max Lyons is doing here: http://www.maxlyons.net/locreadingroom.htm where it doesn't look have that panorama look but just a very detailed shoot that could possible look as if it came right from an 8x10 camera. It looks as though he shoots with his camera in landscape mode where the Nodal Ninja forces me to shoot in portrait mode. Would that create any difference?

I hope I was at all clear with my object for stitching images. Please let me know your thoughts!

Thanks so much.

http://www.wallpaperbase.com/wallpapers/cars/carwreck/car_wreck_1.jpg

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#2 2010-07-08 23:48:07

scabadaska
New member
Registered: 2010-07-08
Posts: 3

Re: Large Format Emulation (4x5 - 8x10)

I forgot to mention that I am mostly trying this with planar projection... perhaps that is wrong?

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#3 2010-07-09 07:51:07

vincen
Moderator
From: Grenoble, France
Registered: 2009-03-13
Posts: 683
Website

Re: Large Format Emulation (4x5 - 8x10)

Hello,

Welcome here smile In fact if you want to get greater resolutions in your panorama, you just basically need to go at higher focal length, above 100mm. You'll need a lot more of pictures but you'll get a lot better quality and resolution. You can do that easily with your NN5 (well you just need the lens for that wink.
Math is simple: more lengthy is focal length, better quality and resolution you get, but also more pictures, and more time for stitching. Shorter is your focal length, quicker it's shot, and stitched but quality lower also !
Extreme on shorter is fisheye.
Extreme on lengthy, wel you can go pretty far so long you find a panoramic head able to carry it, but nothing prevents to shot a panorama at 600mm for example, but you'll need a huge number of shots, and very very very powerful computer to stitch it big_smile

Vincèn


Blog: http://www.skivr.com
My shop for panoramic photographs: http://magasin.skivr.com
Nodal Ninja 5 R-D16 on Benro Tripod + Ultimate R1 on Nodal Ninja P2 + Nikon D3X/D3/D90 + Nikkor 10.5 + Nikkor 14/24 f/2.8 + Nikkor 70/200 f/2.8 + Sigma 150-500
Panogear + Papywizard sur Neo

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#4 2010-07-09 10:14:34

GURL
Member
From: Grenoble
Registered: 2005-12-06
Posts: 3501

Re: Large Format Emulation (4x5 - 8x10)

scabadaska wrote:

I am trying to instead achieve very normal shots just emulate the resolution and quality of large format film.

I might need a longer focal length because when I try with the 85mm I seem to get too much distortion from having to be entirely too close to the subject to get "pieces" of it.

I like what Max Lyons is doing here: http://www.maxlyons.net/locreadingroom.htm where it doesn't look have that panorama look but just a very detailed shoot that could possible look as if it came right from an 8x10 camera.

1) Select the right point of view by using a zoom lens and watching the viewfinder (to remember the frame you selected you could record a single image to be used as a shooting guide and final cropping guide)
2) place your tripod and panohead at the exact location you selected (that's the main point!)
3) the longer the lens you will use the higher the image definition of the resulting pano
4) shoot enough images to cover the frame you selected (the truth is you should not hesitate to record "more images than needed" along the 4 sides of the panorama because too much is better than not enough!)
5) portrait/landscape camera orientation don't matter
6) when stitching use planar projection
7) when stitching use the crop tool and the image described at (1) as a guide.

The rules are:
- the location you select to shoot the source images for a panorama will decide of the resulting image perspective (the used lens don't matter, this is a surprising but well established rule.)
- to reproduce the usual look of photographic images (to avoid panoramic images look) use planar projection mode only
- to reproduce the usual look of photographic images be sure the panorama field of view is corresponding to the focal length of the lens you would use for an ordinary single shoot image.

In a few words: the only solution for a panoramic image being identical to a single shoot image is to shoot from the exact same location. Period.

Your questions are very interesting as answering them forces one to stress the analogy and the differences between usual photography and panoramic photography...

Last edited by GURL (2010-07-09 10:17:08)


Georges

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#5 2010-07-09 16:53:39

hankkarl
Member
From: Connecticut, USA
Registered: 2006-02-21
Posts: 1923
Website

Re: Large Format Emulation (4x5 - 8x10)

vincen wrote:

Extreme on lengthy, wel you can go pretty far so long you find a panoramic head able to carry it, but nothing prevents to shot a panorama at 600mm for example, but you'll need a huge number of shots, and very very very powerful computer to stitch it big_smile

The accuracy and repeatability of the pano head limit the lens you can use. 

The angle of view of a 500mm on a 1.6 crop is 2.6 degrees x 1.7 degrees, so if you only have click-stops at 6 degree increments (60 clicks in a circle) you will have a hard time with this lens. 

BTW, this may be a good argument for landscape orientation--my panohead has click stops on the yaw axis, but a smooth adjustment on the pitch axis.

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#6 2010-07-10 04:01:31

scabadaska
New member
Registered: 2010-07-08
Posts: 3

Re: Large Format Emulation (4x5 - 8x10)

Thanks everyone so far for your input. It has been quite useful.

So, if I wanted to replicate the action of a 4x5 camera for instances using a "standard" 150mm lens (on the 4x5) then, in theory, I could use perhaps a 50mm lens on my Canon to roughly frame off the scene I want to shoot and then, keeping my tripod exactly where it is, I could swap out lenses for a longer focal length (perhaps the 135 canon) and start grabbing "frames" of that scene??

I mean, this is what I have been thinking to do, I guess I just don't know enough about the technical process yet. Also, just to let you know, after the image is created I always crop down to 5:4 ratio.

Regarding the click stops: luckily the Nodal Ninja has tremendous flexibility in terms of click stop settings so I should be able to accurately achieve the right amount of horizontal movements (for example - for my 85mm I found that 12 degrees works best).

One thing I wanted to ask everyone is how you deal with depth of field issues as you increase your focal length? I have noticed even on my 85mm by doing a 5x3 mosaic I really don't get much by way of DoF. Are you focus stacking? Or do you just adjust focus once as you rotate your camera vertically (for example: as you take shots of the ground do you adjust focus once or take two photos of each frame with near and far focusing)?

I try to get out as often as I can to improve my technique and understanding.

"Your questions are very interesting as answering them forces one to stress the analogy and the differences between usual photography and panoramic photography..."

Thanks for the comment GURL - that's exactly what I am speaking of, too. It interesting really because I want to use panoramic techniques but not really for a panoramic picture. I am glad for everyone's input, too - I guess perhaps my approach is maybe a bit unusual.

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#7 2010-07-10 09:45:37

GURL
Member
From: Grenoble
Registered: 2005-12-06
Posts: 3501

Re: Large Format Emulation (4x5 - 8x10)

scabadaska wrote:

One thing I wanted to ask everyone is how you deal with depth of field issues as you increase your focal length?

The usual rule is to use the exact same focus setting for every shoots in a series but, as you will see in examples from the following threads, escaping this rule enable a very high DOF. (Examples are more that often macro-panoramas but described methods will work the same or even better for larger subjects.)

The main problem is: most peoples are afraid of breaking the "single focus setting" usual rule andt this possibility is not well known for panoramas.

Here is my preferred method which is very unconventional :

If you want larger DOF use F22 or F32 aperture !
... but shoot "too many images" and use a low Render percentage (between 20% and 50%)
... so that DIFRACTION IS NO MORE VISIBLE
as explaine there:  http://www.autopano.net/forum/t6731-wan … ore-images

http://www.autopano.net/forum/showimage.php?pid=48734&filename=old-car-%5Bfor-web%5D-DSCF2355_DSCF2372-18-images-2928x3856-33.08x40.jpg

Related examples:
http://www.autopano.net/forum/t6722-une … e-a-fleuri
http://www.autopano.net/forum/t7666-macro-panorama

tongue Shallow DOF http://www.autopano.net/forum/t4675-adv … -panoramas

Last edited by GURL (2010-07-10 09:49:27)


Georges

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