[bo] wrote:

You can achieve similar results using the current Vertical lines tool. I strongly suggest looking into:
http://www.autopano.net/wiki-en/action/ … _Verticals
http://www.autopano.net/wiki-en/action/ … a_panorama

Cheers for the links. I'll check them out later when i've got more time.
I have used the Verticals tool a few times to straighten out some of my panos. With mixed results. The main problem is that it distorts the whole pano and doesn't move an image relative to it's neighbour, like i need to half the time.
But the tool i am suggesting will make the straightening of jagged and wavy horizons a no-brianer, 2 minute job, rather than trial & error 30 min battle.
The thing here, is that the horizon is easily defined, with any argument, it's a straight line. A horizontal line. So a tool that allows us to position each individual image or the pano relative to that line is always going to be a winner.
So perhaps we can have the Horizon tool, to sit next to the equally useful Verticals tool.

CheeseAndJamSandwich wrote:

I have used the Verticals tool a few times to straighten out some of my panos. With mixed results. The main problem is that it distorts the whole pano and doesn't move an image relative to it's neighbour, like i need to half the time.

None of the pano editor tools but two can change the relative position of two adjacent source image:

- the Control Point Editor or the Move tool are to be used to adjust an image relative to it's neighbours

- all these tools move the entire pano and never move a single image.

A new kind of tool, which would change both the relative position of the source images and the global orientation of the entire panorama is conceivable but would often result in very visible stitch errors because the manual placement of lines would not be precise enough.

GURL wrote:

CheeseAndJamSandwich wrote:

I have used the Verticals tool a few times to straighten out some of my panos. With mixed results. The main problem is that it distorts the whole pano and doesn't move an image relative to it's neighbour, like i need to half the time.

None of the pano editor tools but two can change the relative position of two adjacent source image:

- the Control Point Editor http://www.autopano.net/wiki-en/images- … de_off.png or the Move tool http://www.autopano.net/wiki-en/images- … de_off.png are to be used to adjust an image relative to it's neighbours

- http://www.autopano.net/wiki-en/images- … Rot180.png http://www.autopano.net/wiki-en/images- … 90left.png http://www.autopano.net/wiki-en/images- … 0right.png http://www.autopano.net/wiki-en/images- … chroll.png http://www.autopano.net/wiki-en/images- … center.png http://www.autopano.net/wiki-en/images- … /Level.png http://www.autopano.net/wiki-en/images- … tical1.png all these tools move the entire pano and never move a single image.

A new kind of tool, which would change both the relative position of the source images and the global orientation of the entire panorama is conceivable but would often result in very visible stitch errors because the manual placement of lines would not be precise enough.

Just to make it clear what i'm thinking this tool could do: It would do two things... either move the whole pano image, just like the Modify Roll, Pitch, Yaw, etc. tools do.  OR   It will allow special control points to be added to each image, and these control points WILL then lie on the horizon line... And the other control points for the image pairs will then dictate how the pairs are matched up and distorted as per usual.

GURL wrote:

A new kind of tool, which would change both the relative position of the source images and the global orientation of the entire panorama is conceivable but would often result in very visible stitch errors because the manual placement of lines would not be precise enough.

The problem here is that THE MOST VISIBLE stitch error is the mismatch of the horizon.  So this is the one that needs fixing. The other errors will be "irrelevant" so to speak.
Also, the placement of the points can be done say in the control point editor window, or something similar, where you can zoom right in to the original image.... If it looks wrong when updated, you tweak it... as with all the other adjustments we make...

klausesser wrote:

CheeseAndJamSandwich wrote:

OK, here's the ultimate example of where i've had problems...
This pano comes up with not a very straight horizon. Some image pairs are stepped and some meet ok but the horizon dips down to the join.

???

best, Klaus

OK, when i say ultimate, i'm referring to the exceptionally flat horizon in the scene...
It's not the worst example of a stepped or wavy horizon in the pano... i have had others which were a lot worse.  And this one only shows up bad when you zoom in (especially to the full resolution image)... and it will definitely show up when i print this off in large format...

mediavets wrote:

CheeseAndJamSandwich wrote:

And this one only shows up bad when you zoom in (especially to the full resolution image)... and it will definitely show up when i print this off in large format...

But why would you want to? Zoom in or print...

???
I guess we should just print off the individual photos and pin them to the board, overlapping in roughly the right place... Like the good ol' days...

What i see as APP's strength, is the slick workflow... Compared to the other software i used, APP lets be get the job done, and done fast and well.
So i'm suggesting a tool to sit next to the other very slick tools that make adjusting two fairly common problems really easy to fix...  Just like the Verticals tool... You don't need it that often, but when you do, it does the job bloody well and it's easy to use.

CheeseAndJamSandwich wrote:

mediavets wrote:

CheeseAndJamSandwich wrote:

And this one only shows up bad when you zoom in (especially to the full resolution image)... and it will definitely show up when i print this off in large format...

But why would you want to? Zoom in or print...

???
I guess we should just print off the individual photos and pin them to the board, overlapping in roughly the right place... Like the good ol' days...

I'd say that's probably about the only way to make this scene (more) interesting?

Although they do say that beauty is in the eye of the beholder.

Or perhaps the point of the image is the unremittingly dull landscape?

Is there really much more to see (or worth seeing) if you zoom in or produce an enormous print?

This jagged horizon edge could happen because APP's CP editor may not detect the correct control point at the horizon area. We have mention in other thread to include a purely manual ability to place (hand pick) control points, where CP editors fail. Not to mention, I've been in the PTAssembler where you can place manually control point. I am just thinking on how to stitch a zenith with almost no detail to the whole panorama. I hope this could contribute to the discussion. Best regards, Manuel, the newbie.

CheeseAndJamSandwich wrote:

This is one of the steps i was on about.
Is this a help?

Yes - helps a lot . . .

I guess you may have missed the NPP a bit. But THIS item surely is easy to be fixed in Photoshop.
Did you run geometrical correction?
What was your settings for detection? What settings for for geometrical correction?
best, Klaus

manuel rosario wrote:

Hi Andrew,

I am glad to hear that manual cp placing could be implemented in the next update.

I am using canon eos50d and a sigma 12-24 at 12mm on manfrotto, panusaurus and shutter release cable. Ideal lens would be a fisheye and that will be my next item to buy. I usually shot 20 images (2 x 9) + (zenith and nadir). I find difficulties when I captured images inside a 1.2 M x 2.5M (toilet or confort room) and in areas with many lines.

I am a newbee and thanks for the tip. I will experiment it. Best regards.

Manuel.

Manuel

Yes, a FE will help a lot when shooting interiors because you'll be far more likely to get matching features in adjacent images which will enable good auto-detection of CPs, and you will have far fewer seams of course.

When shooting interiors having the NPP set correctly is more important to avoid parallax errors. Having the camera accurately centred on the vertical axis of rotation, and having the sensor plane at 90 degreses to the upper arm are also very important; probably more important that the fore-aft setting on the upper arm.

I wonder whether you have too great an overlap when shooting 2 rows of 9 at 12mm?

This database suggests 2 rows of 8 at +/- 30 pitch + Zenith:
http://www.vrwave.com/panoramic/photogr … abase.html

If you wish to upload one of your problem sets of images somewhere we can download it then I'd be happy to have a go at stitching it to better understand the problem you are having with stitching.

Scenes with repeating patterns can confuse APP's auto-detection of CPs but it's usually relatively easy to resolve such issues.

Back on-topic...

The problem of the stepped horizons is still the most common problem i can't fix easily... And the most noticeable in the finished pano image.
I do magnitudes more hand-held panos with my P&S than with my SLR on my NN3 pano head...  I just don't have it with me that often!

Perhaps some of you can take a trip to the seaside or to the Aussie Outback or similar, where you have landscapes with perfectly flat horizons, and do some handheld panos...  Then you can experience the 'fun' i have trying to fix them.

The horizon 'clothes line' tool would easily remove this genuine and always noticeable problem.

Oh and here's another step for you...