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#1 2009-11-01 01:04:42

emess
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From: Germany
Registered: 2007-06-25
Posts: 21
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Different travel time from one position to the next in a row

Hello  chaps,

now my Merlin is up and running, modified and I have a lot of fun looking at it when it´s doing all the work for me.

During the processing of a spherical panorama I realized that the time between two shots in the same row varied quite a lot. Sometimes Merlin moved to the next position very quick, sometimes it creeped awfully slow. When I talked to Tobias he confirmed this behaviour on his Merlin.

Now I renamed the files shot in the same row (screenshot below), the numbers after the @ give you the exact time hh-mm-ss picked up from the exif date in every single file. There is a clear system. It´s 8 seconds - 24 seconds - 8 seconds and so on. 8 seconds between two shots feel good, but 24 for the same distance/angle are a pain in the - well, you know.... What I would really like is 8 - 8 - 8 - 8 -.......

Is this behaviour of Merlin known, is it new, did I miss the magic "optimize time" button in a menue I have not looked at by now? My Merlin works with a win xp pc, pw 2.1.11, Claudes bt-module and fresh batteries. Tobias (360pano) uses a very similar environment, but pw 2.1.12.

Regards Martin


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Last edited by emess (2009-11-01 01:10:11)

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#2 2009-11-01 11:38:07

grosserfox
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From: Hunsrück / Germany
Registered: 2009-10-10
Posts: 71
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Re: Different travel time from one position to the next in a row

Hi Martin, nice to meet you here! smile
I have just built up my Merlin-System and tested it and noticed same affect. Moving time between shots is 3times longer every second shot.
System: HP-notebook VISTA 32, N800, ursaminor Bt, Merlin - no crown modifying, adapter modified for the 5D MKII but only with ATX 10-17 usable. (just cut and glued to get the lens on the middle of the axis)

H.a.n.d.
Chris
www.insight360.de

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#3 2009-11-01 14:27:04

fma38
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From: Grenoble, France
Registered: 2005-12-07
Posts: 6028
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Re: Different travel time from one position to the next in a row

Could you send me a complete log file with a few images showing this problem (witch the log level to trace before)? does it happen only when you are in bright sun?


Frédéric

Canon 20D + 17-40/f4 L USM + 70-200/f4 L USM + 50/f1.4 USM + Tokina 10-17 3.5-4.5 AF DX Fisheye
Merlin/Orion panohead + Papywizard on Nokia N800 and HP TC-1100

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#4 2009-11-01 21:26:29

emess
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From: Germany
Registered: 2007-06-25
Posts: 21
Website

Re: Different travel time from one position to the next in a row

Hello Frederic,

unfortunately I can not provide you the logfile - after updating to 2.1.12 I cleared it.

5:20pm at this time of the year is not the time for bright sunlight here in Dortmund. The test shot was done in my workshop, with a neon lamp at the ceiling. I read about the light influence issue of the sensor, so I shaded the area of the bubble level with my hand, because I had this idea, too. But that did not influence the behaviour of the rotation axis.

The set of pictures above was produced with the 4+12+12+12+8 (32mm) preset that came with pw. The screenshot shows the data of the 0 deg pitch row. Thinking about it again, I might have NOT changed the value for the focal length of the lens in the camera/lens configuration tab. But thats impossible to verifynow. And  if I understand the idea of the presets right, this should not interfere, should it?

If you give me an exact idea of what data you expect I´ll shoot the test row again.

Regars Martin

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#5 2009-11-01 22:24:53

fma38
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From: Grenoble, France
Registered: 2005-12-07
Posts: 6028
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Re: Different travel time from one position to the next in a row

Right, preset don't need focal lenght... Try to reproduce the problem, and as soon as it occurs, send me the log file (with trace turned on). There are 2 different routines for positionning: one which uses the goto function of the head, an another one wich first make an external closed loop, then use the goto function. This is for moves < 6°... There is maybe an issue, there.


Frédéric

Canon 20D + 17-40/f4 L USM + 70-200/f4 L USM + 50/f1.4 USM + Tokina 10-17 3.5-4.5 AF DX Fisheye
Merlin/Orion panohead + Papywizard on Nokia N800 and HP TC-1100

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#6 2009-11-03 09:52:12

grosserfox
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From: Hunsrück / Germany
Registered: 2009-10-10
Posts: 71
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Re: Different travel time from one position to the next in a row

Hi, made my own preset 6 shots at 0° for the ATX @ 14mm

you can see every second move is slow:hmm

I don`t know, how to upload a file so here is part ot the log-file:roll

             Erstellt von Papywizard 2.1.12
   
        <preset name="EOS 5D Tokina ATX @ 14mm"/>
    </header>
    <shoot>
        <pict bracket="1" id="1">
            <time>
                2009-11-03_09h37m54s
            </time>
            <position pitch="0.0" roll="90.0" yaw="0.0"/>
        </pict>
        <pict bracket="1" id="2">
            <time>
                2009-11-03_09h38m06s
            </time>
            <position pitch="0.0" roll="90.0" yaw="60.0"/>
        </pict>
        <pict bracket="1" id="3">
            <time>
                2009-11-03_09h38m38s
            </time>
            <position pitch="0.0" roll="90.0" yaw="120.0"/>
        </pict>
        <pict bracket="1" id="4">
            <time>
                2009-11-03_09h38m50s
            </time>
            <position pitch="0.0" roll="90.0" yaw="180.0"/>
        </pict>
        <pict bracket="1" id="5">
            <time>
                2009-11-03_09h39m23s
            </time>
            <position pitch="0.0" roll="90.0" yaw="240.0"/>
        </pict>
        <pict bracket="1" id="6">
            <time>
                2009-11-03_09h39m35s
            </time>
            <position pitch="0.0" roll="90.0" yaw="300.0"/>
        </pict>
        <pict bracket="1" id="7">
            <time>
                2009-11-03_09h39m55s
            </time>
            <position pitch="90.0" roll="90.0" yaw="300.0"/>
        </pict>
        <pict bracket="1" id="8">
            <time>
                2009-11-03_09h40m28s
            </time>
            <position pitch="-90.0" roll="90.0" yaw="300.0"/>
        </pict>
    </shoot>
</papywizard>

complete file is here for download: www.dd-webtest.de/kundendownloads/papyw … preset.xml

reg Chris
www.insight360.de

Last edited by grosserfox (2009-11-03 10:05:13)

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#7 2009-11-03 12:23:07

fma38
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From: Grenoble, France
Registered: 2005-12-07
Posts: 6028
Website

Re: Different travel time from one position to the next in a row

Really strange...


Frédéric

Canon 20D + 17-40/f4 L USM + 70-200/f4 L USM + 50/f1.4 USM + Tokina 10-17 3.5-4.5 AF DX Fisheye
Merlin/Orion panohead + Papywizard on Nokia N800 and HP TC-1100

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#8 2009-11-03 21:30:46

grosserfox
Member
From: Hunsrück / Germany
Registered: 2009-10-10
Posts: 71
Website

Re: Different travel time from one position to the next in a row

Hello, made another test with 20 shots 18°. Time between shots 6 sec, every second shot 22 sec.

Claude told me, that my bt unit from ursaminor with black knob has a known defect! (thanks to claude smile )
So silly question: could this be caused by the bt-unit?
@ Martin, what kind of bt-unit are you using?

reg Chris


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Last edited by grosserfox (2009-11-03 21:38:28)

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#9 2009-11-03 21:53:35

emess
Member
From: Germany
Registered: 2007-06-25
Posts: 21
Website

Re: Different travel time from one position to the next in a row

The one below, so I don´t think the bt-module is under suspicion.

I made some tests with interesting results today (Frederic will get a full logfile tomorrow - it´s stored on the other computer).

First - 32mm preset:
The creeping effect is there, as described below in all rows.

Second - 10-17, 8 around preset:
Creeping every second shot, horizontal and vertical movements are affected depending on what movement comes last.

Third - Mosaic with 300mm focal length lens:
NO creeping at horizontel movements (< 6 deg increments WITHOUT overlap) BUT at vertical movement (> 6 deg increments WITHOUT overlap). Unfortunately Frederics idea to force the movement mode (forcing NON-positioning with the head goto function) came too late, I´ll have to check the creeping behaviour again tomorrow.

Regards Martin


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#10 2009-11-03 22:27:35

claudevh
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From: Mont-Saint-André (Belgium)
Registered: 2007-11-25
Posts: 1265
Website

Re: Different travel time from one position to the next in a row

Hi all,

I use of-course the same module as as Martin ...wink Nice your GIF ! Can-I use it ?
Generally, I use a Nokia N770 with Papywizard 1.6 and I never had this kind of problems ...
I use also from time to time a Netbook, but wit Papywizard 2 stable release, no problems ...
I use only a laptop PC (Vista 32) for test purpose only ... I will try tomorrow if I can reproduce this problem.
Fréderic do-you remember when you have introduced the new algorithm's for the "optimized movements" in Papywizard (Version ?)


cool Claude cool
Merlin + Papywizard on Windows 7 & Nokia 770, Nokia N810 & Acer Aspire One (Netbook) + Deltawave PapyMerlin BT module + Autopano
Spherical Pano (180 x 360) with Canon 40D + Canon EF-S 10-22mm f/3.5-4.5 Zoom & Pôle Pano with Canon 5D MK2 and shaved Tokina 10-17 3.5-4.5 AF DX Fisheye
Gigapixel photography with Nikon D200 + Sigma 70-200 F 2.8 EX DG APO HSM

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#11 2009-11-04 00:17:42

fma38
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From: Grenoble, France
Registered: 2005-12-07
Posts: 6028
Website

Re: Different travel time from one position to the next in a row

claudevh wrote:

Fréderic do-you remember when you have introduced the new algorithm's for the "optimized movements" in Papywizard (Version ?)

Yes, sure: it has been added in the 2.1.6 release. But it can be switched off from the second tab of the Merlin/Orion plugin configuration dialog...

Martin, could you send me your preset (input) file? I will have time to make some tests tomorrow...


Frédéric

Canon 20D + 17-40/f4 L USM + 70-200/f4 L USM + 50/f1.4 USM + Tokina 10-17 3.5-4.5 AF DX Fisheye
Merlin/Orion panohead + Papywizard on Nokia N800 and HP TC-1100

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#12 2009-11-04 07:30:59

emess
Member
From: Germany
Registered: 2007-06-25
Posts: 21
Website

Re: Different travel time from one position to the next in a row

Frederic,

I used the standard presets which come with pw 2.1.12. No customization. Do you still need them?

Logs are on the go.

Regards Martin

Last edited by emess (2009-11-04 07:44:28)

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#13 2009-11-04 08:49:21

fma38
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From: Grenoble, France
Registered: 2005-12-07
Posts: 6028
Website

Re: Different travel time from one position to the next in a row

emess wrote:

I used the standard presets which come with pw 2.1.12.

And the problem occurs with all of them?


Frédéric

Canon 20D + 17-40/f4 L USM + 70-200/f4 L USM + 50/f1.4 USM + Tokina 10-17 3.5-4.5 AF DX Fisheye
Merlin/Orion panohead + Papywizard on Nokia N800 and HP TC-1100

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#14 2009-11-04 08:58:35

emess
Member
From: Germany
Registered: 2007-06-25
Posts: 21
Website

Re: Different travel time from one position to the next in a row

At least with the two I used by now.

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#15 2009-11-04 11:14:41

fma38
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From: Grenoble, France
Registered: 2005-12-07
Posts: 6028
Website

Re: Different travel time from one position to the next in a row

I just made some tests, but I can't reproduce the problem... I really need to see your log file when it happens.


Frédéric

Canon 20D + 17-40/f4 L USM + 70-200/f4 L USM + 50/f1.4 USM + Tokina 10-17 3.5-4.5 AF DX Fisheye
Merlin/Orion panohead + Papywizard on Nokia N800 and HP TC-1100

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#16 2009-11-04 13:09:15

emess
Member
From: Germany
Registered: 2007-06-25
Posts: 21
Website

Re: Different travel time from one position to the next in a row

That is strange - maybe a firmware update in the Merlin itself?

My Merlin is one of the latest batch afrer it was reported that they were unavailabe fur some time in late summer. Chris, when did you purchase yours? It seems to me that this issue was not reported before. This made me wonder, because it is very obvious. Maybe someone of you out there can cross-check with an older Merlin head? Just let the 32mm preset proceed and have a careful look if every second movement is very slow.

I dont´t remember that there is a serial no. on the head, does anybody know exactly? Or is there a way to find out the firmware version of Merlin via pw?

Regards Martin

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#17 2009-11-04 13:27:39

UrsaMinor
Member
From: Budapest, Hungary
Registered: 2009-05-29
Posts: 54
Website

Re: Different travel time from one position to the next in a row

Hello,

The version of the firmware can be queried with the ":e1" command on the larger SkyWatcher mounts (EQ6, HEQ5)
Maybe this works with Merlin also.
Use my Terminal program to send the command and see the result.
It can be downloaded from:
http://www.ursaminor.hu/downloads_en.html

Best regards,
Tamas

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#18 2009-11-04 13:36:54

fma38
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From: Grenoble, France
Registered: 2005-12-07
Posts: 6028
Website

Re: Different travel time from one position to the next in a row

Tamas, it seems to work smile Mine returns '010981'. I added this command at init stage, so it will appears in the log.

But I don't know if this issue is related to the firmeware. BTW, does it occurs with mosaic mode? Try to setup a config with the same steps as with the presets...


Frédéric

Canon 20D + 17-40/f4 L USM + 70-200/f4 L USM + 50/f1.4 USM + Tokina 10-17 3.5-4.5 AF DX Fisheye
Merlin/Orion panohead + Papywizard on Nokia N800 and HP TC-1100

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#19 2009-11-04 13:43:04

emess
Member
From: Germany
Registered: 2007-06-25
Posts: 21
Website

Re: Different travel time from one position to the next in a row

Frederic,

please have another look at the mosaic logfile. i had the impression that the vertical movement was quite slow in comparison to the horizontal. Without overlap that is just over the 6 deg border.

I see there are some more things to check for me tonight.

Regards Martin

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#20 2009-11-04 22:22:44

grosserfox
Member
From: Hunsrück / Germany
Registered: 2009-10-10
Posts: 71
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Re: Different travel time from one position to the next in a row

@ Martin, bought my Merlin 3 weeks ago!

reg Chris

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#21 2009-11-04 22:30:11

emess
Member
From: Germany
Registered: 2007-06-25
Posts: 21
Website

Re: Different travel time from one position to the next in a row

Chris, same time I bought mine.

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#22 2009-11-04 22:39:04

grosserfox
Member
From: Hunsrück / Germany
Registered: 2009-10-10
Posts: 71
Website

Re: Different travel time from one position to the next in a row

Hi, not very familiar with mosaic mode, but built one and run it: same effect every second shot movement was much slower!
reg Chris

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#23 2009-11-04 22:39:44

gkaefer
Member
From: Salzburg
Registered: 2009-06-09
Posts: 1425
Website

Re: Different travel time from one position to the next in a row

question on the fly...
are autofocus, image stabilizer, exposure time & aperture set to off on your cam?

Liebe Gruesse,
Georg

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#24 2009-11-04 22:49:48

grosserfox
Member
From: Hunsrück / Germany
Registered: 2009-10-10
Posts: 71
Website

Re: Different travel time from one position to the next in a row

gkaefer wrote:

question on the fly...
are autofocus, image stabilizer, exposure time & aperture set to off on your cam?

Hi Georg this even happens without camera connected and shutter set to simulation mode!
thks reg Chris

Last edited by grosserfox (2009-11-04 22:50:20)

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#25 2009-11-04 23:03:01

gkaefer
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From: Salzburg
Registered: 2009-06-09
Posts: 1425
Website

Re: Different travel time from one position to the next in a row

ok...
also antivirus software, firewalls, even vpn clients,  boinc clients for seti projects etc. shutdown?

lg
Georg

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