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| User list | Rules | You are not logged in.
Pages: 1 2
Hi,
I'm using a Nikon D800E + Samyang AE 14mm f2.8 ED AS IF UMC (Rectilinear and seems very sharp lens!!!) and having some issues : little holes in the final pano 
.
How I tried with this new lens :
Step 1 : shoot in raw (nef) 6H + 1Z + 1N*
*Nadir: (in fact, I reverse the column and place the Manfrotto 303SPH between the legs, looking to the ground for a second nadir, avoiding the head in this last picture)
Step 2 : I export my nef pictures to tif 16bit. I did a profile for the Samyang 14mm lens using Adobe Lens Profile Creator (not really perfectly corrected) and I'm using it to correct the distortions before exporting tif files, but still having very little moustache distortions.
Step 3 : Autopano Giga : I modify the lens type from Fisheye to Standard.
Step 4 : Obtaining RMS 3.19 but still leave 3 little triangular holes in the pano (black in the export). Do you think my problem is due to bad lens profile or did I miss something else important in Autopano Giga?
Did you see somewhere a lens profile for my setup ?
Any advice very appreciated, thank you
Alain
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alainvanhaecke wrote:
Hi,
I'm using a Nikon D800E + Samyang AE 14mm f2.8 ED AS IF UMC (Rectilinear and seems very sharp lens!!!) and having some issues : little holes in the final pano
How I tried with this new lens :
Step 1 : shoot in raw (nef) 6H + 1Z + 1N*
*Nadir: (in fact, I reverse the column and place the Manfrotto 303SPH between the legs, looking to the ground for a second nadir, avoiding the head in this last picture)
Step 2 : I export my nef pictures to tif 16bit. I did a profile for the Samyang 14mm lens using Adobe Lens Profile Creator (not really perfectly corrected) and I'm using it to correct the distortions before exporting tif files, but still having very little moustache distortions.
Step 3 : Autopano Giga : I modify the lens type from Fisheye to Standard.
Step 4 : Obtaining RMS 3.19 but still leave 3 little triangular holes in the pano (black in the export). Do you think my problem is due to bad lens profile or did I miss something else important in Autopano Giga?
Did you see somewhere a lens profile for my setup ?
Any advice very appreciated, thank you
Alain
Hi!
6 shots 1 row + Z + N works with a fisheye - not with a rect. lens. I suggest to shoot two complete rows - + and - depends on your lens.
best, Klaus
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alainvanhaecke wrote:
Hi,
I'm using a Nikon D800E + Samyang AE 14mm f2.8 ED AS IF UMC (Rectilinear and seems very sharp lens!!!) and having some issues : little holes in the final pano
..............
Any advice very appreciated, thank you
Alain
See this database for recommended shooting patterns for your lens:
http://www.vrwave.com/panoramic-lens-database/samyang/
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Hi..
Try 6X 45 degrees down and 6X 45 up.....
I have a D800 with a Nikon 14-24, but using a wide angle lens for a sphere, you may have issues.. Better using a 35mm or 85mm prime or full frame fisheye...
Destiny
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I've shot spherical panoramas with a D700 and 14-24mm f/2.8 on a manual head for years. At 14mm I shoot 2 rows of 6 images (12 total) pointed 40° down and 40° up and every 60° in rotation. At 24mm I shoot 3 rows of 12 images (36 total) pointed 55° up, level at 0°, and 55° down every 30° in rotation. Both solutions stitch beautifully in PTGui Pro (I haven't done much for spherical photos with AutoPano Giga yet). Your Samyang lens should be quite similar at 14mm.
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Hi
If you correct the lens distortion in PS, you should deactivate the lens distortion correction in APG.
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thanks for the replies
I tested the solution of Michel Thoby : http://michel.thoby.free.fr/Web_Gallery … _only.html
IT WORKS REALLY WELL
H6 at 60° each + Zenith at 30° left or right from the first H shot + Nadir 30° too : incredible... amazing!!! holes not present and the RMS is 2.87 at first import in Autopano Giga without adjusting anyting more.
THANK YOU Michel Thoby, thank you all
In the past, I did like aaron says but my hdd are now all completely full
I wanted to reduce the amount of shots because I do HDR (9 diff exp raw / shot) and with 36 Mpix the procedure is a bit long and hard for the computer
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Yup, I've got your storage problem too. 3 & 4TB drives are all getting full... LOL
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Interesting solution by Michel Thoby. Thanks for sharing. Now I'm curious what my Panoneed will calculate at 14mm when it gets here.
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aaronpriest wrote:
Interesting solution by Michel Thoby. Thanks for sharing. Now I'm curious what my Panoneed will calculate at 14mm when it gets here.
Whatever it calculates I think you are stuck with it.
AFAIK the Panoneed doesn't offer support for user customised shooting patterns.
Last edited by mediavets (2013-03-18 14:38:22)
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I think you are right, but I don't think it will be a problem. I have a T&C controller and a Merlin and it works great, except my D700 and 14-24mm combination is too large to sit over the no parallax point for a good stitch. It worked fine with my much smaller D70 and 10-20mm Sigma.
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aaronpriest wrote:
I think you are right, but I don't think it will be a problem. I have a T&C controller and a Merlin and it works great, except my D700 and 14-24mm combination is too large to sit over the no parallax point for a good stitch. It worked fine with my much smaller D70 and 10-20mm Sigma.
I don't know, but I expect the shooting position calculation algorithmns are the same in the firmware for T&C Touch Controller when it's configured for Merlin, as when it's configured for the Panoneed?
But I expect that Klaus can, and will tell, us.
...................
Do you plan to get another Touch Controller for the Panoneed or will you change the firmware in your current Touch Controller for use with the Panoneed?
Last edited by mediavets (2013-03-18 19:07:35)
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mediavets wrote:
AFAIK the Panoneed doesn't offer support for user customised shooting patterns.
Good Lord . . . 
When will you ever learn that the TC/Merlin as well as the TC/Panoneed doesn´t need them at all? I guess you will - would - immediately understand it the moment you ever use one . . . not before, i´m afraid 
Having never used one it seems to be impossible for you to understand the concept . .
You seem not even to believe the many users claiming the TC works very well. That´s kind of a religion youre sticking on, Andrew.
You constantly oversee that users often makes errors in handling a device - instead of asking the user what he/she might be doing wrong you jump on this ridiculous "customized preset patterns missing".
That´s raally boring.
The FACT is, Andrew, that the routines in the TC ARE a kind of "customized shooting pattern" cxalculated by Josef and implemented in the TC. They´re nothing else but recaalled patterns when you start the TC using a camera/lens/head combination.
Is that really so hard to understand?
There is ALWAYS only ONE pattern that can do a shoot best. This pattern is strictly and exclusively related to the lens/lens-model, the sensorsize and what you´re going to shoot.
Telling the TC these values - focal/lens-model, sensorsize/ratio and whether you want to shoot sphere, angle or mosaic - it takes the pattern it needs to shoot.
The values are you store ONCE at home.
Andrew - ´m soo tired constantly repeating the very same things . . . and being not understood at all.
Again: you´re making statements about things of which functionality you have not the remotest idea - but think you know what they NOT can do. 
You think when somebody gets a bad result it MUST be the device - not the user . .
I KNOW it´s NOT the device - because i use it every day. When i have issues it´s not the device, i can tell you . . .
best, Klaus
Last edited by klausesser (2013-03-18 19:55:20)
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klausesser wrote:
mediavets wrote:
AFAIK the Panoneed doesn't offer support for user customised shooting patterns.
Good Lord . . .
When will you ever learn that the TC/Merlin as well as the TC/Panoneed doesn´t need them at all? I guess you will - would - immediately understand it the moment you ever use one . . . not before, i´m afraid
Having never used one it seems to be impossible for you to understand the concept . .
You seem not even to believe the many users claiming the TC works very well. That´s kind of a religion youre sticking on, Andrew.
I made simple value-free statement.
I didn't say this was 'good thing' or a 'bad thing'.
The original poster to whom I replied was expressing interest in a particular shooting pattern described by Michel Thoby.
I was merely observing that - since he was awaiting delivery of a Panoneed head - he could not pick and choose shooting patterns with that device.
I understand very well T&C's position/philosophy regarding calculation of shooting positions, and T&C's view that support for alternative shooting positions is unnecessary. Goodness knows you have preached it often enough.
There is ALWAYS only ONE pattern that can do a shoot best. This pattern is strictly and exclusively related to the lens/lens-model, the sensorsize and what you´re going to shoot.
As you know I think this statement is not true. Perhaps it depends on what you believe 'best' means in this context.
You think when somebody gets a bad result it MUST be the device - not the user . .
I don't think that at all.
But I have to say that I would not be surprised if some Panoneed users may make mistakes when the English version of the User Manual is barely comprehensible.
Regards,
Andrew
Last edited by mediavets (2013-03-18 20:15:41)
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mediavets wrote:
Whatever it calculates I think you are stuck with it.
Not at all. Just go the intelligent way: set the overlap higher or lower. That will influence your pattern the most.
BUT - as is stated already several times: There is ONLY ONE "pattern" which will provide an optimum. No more.
There is NEVER more than ONE optimum.
So: setup your head/lens/camera correctly - and you wouldn´t have any problem. If you DO NOT set up your rig consequently -
be not surprised to get faulty results.
It´s absolute nonsense to blame faulty setups to the controlling device.
The TC has proven it works very well - about 400 customers can tell you. Believe it or not.
The point is: more and more absolute beginners think they can start big business from scratch - whithout any skills or at least experience in photography.
But of course it has to be "Giga" right from the start . . .
They buy devices - and then . . . .
It really is that easy.
I remember when i started to use the Merlin and PapyWizard. 90% of my questions came from not understanding what it was all about.
So i asked here - and YOU was one of the guys who helped me a lot. And i realized what i missed: knowledge. So i learned.
Among what i learned real quick was the sense and nonsense of being tied to "customized preset patterns".
I learned that there is only one way of working successfully: acting consequently and working precisely. No guessing - KNOWING.
best, Klaus
Last edited by klausesser (2013-03-18 20:32:02)
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aaronpriest wrote:
Now I'm curious what my Panoneed will calculate at 14mm when it gets here.
I can tell you. Give me an hour or so - i´ll run a "dry" sequence and post it´s XML here. D700 and 2,8/14-24mm @14mm?
best, Klaus
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AFAIK the Panoneed doesn't offer support for user customised shooting patterns.
that is a clear misstatement.
each time you switch on you TC handcontroller you create a customised Shooting pattern based on the Input the user is providing data for...
please, do no longer ignore this fact.
there are conceptual differences to the Shooting pattern created by/for papywizzard:
you do not save the Shooting pattern in a XML file, you cant reuse this by loading it later.
(each time you Switch off your TC handcontroller, the customized Shooting pattern is gone - thats true - you cant use the XML logfile of your pano sessions as Input file for your TC handcontroller like using the PW - thats true too)
using the TC handcontroller there is no Need to do so. (lens/sensor data are saved and reloaded to/from the TC handcontroller whenever you want, but not the Matrix you use on Scene like sphere, fix Image row/column Counts or a free choosable starting Point and free selectable degree for the demensions, the overlap you wanna choose can also be selected on the fly by the touchpad). The calculation how many Images to use to get the selected overlap and to calculate different numbers of Images for each row/column you dont have to careabout. its mathematics and is done by the TC handcontroller.
so you cant select a Shooting pattern like Michael Toby presented for the 14mm lens. thats true. but the TC handcontroller does create its own Shooting pattern, it is valid, it is working, and always error free calculated...
you can discuss which method you prefer and for what reasons, but you cant state it does not offer Support for user customised Shooting Patterns. thats a wrong Statement.
PW does offer such on the fly Shooting pattern creation too. you can select the number of rows and columns, the overlap, the angles your pano will cover etc.
But defacto and in Special in use with higher focal lenses These Features are useless in PW, because of PW's inability to automatically calculate the needed number of Images per row to Keep the selected overlap between the Images constant. And this is - when using PW - a Major reason you must use a customized preset - and this is also a reason why offline and online preset Generators does exist for PW. using PW you're far more inflexible on Scene, you allways have to produce your customized presets before you leave your house, if you'Re on Scene and you decide to use another lens, or another focal you're not prepared for, you can write a new XML file wherever you're or you can stop your session...
Georg
Last edited by gkaefer (2013-03-18 21:06:48)
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Nikon D700, 14mm, 12 shots + Z,
XML written by TC/Panoneed. Resolution: 0,036°
Please compare it to a "custom preset" generated from somewhere else.
Forget about the date - i missed to set the clock after updating.
XML:
<?xml version="1.0" encoding="utf-8"?>
<papywizard version="a">
<header>
<general>
<title>
Start 06:11:12 06.01.2000 End 06:12:13 06.01.2000
</title>
<gps>
</gps>
<comment>
Generated by PANONEED
</comment>
</general>
<shooting mode="sphere">
<headOrientation>
up
</headOrientation>
<cameraOrientation>
portrait
</cameraOrientation>
<stabilizationDelay>
0.5
</stabilizationDelay>
<startTime>
06:11:12 06.01.2000
</startTime>
<endTime>
06:12:13 06.01.2000
</endTime>
</shooting>
<camera>
<timeValue>
1.0
</timeValue>
<bracketing intent="exposure" nbPicts="001"/>
<sensor coef="1.0" ratio="1.5"/>
</camera>
<lens type="rectilinear">
<focal>
14.0
</focal>
</lens>
<preset name=" "/>
</header>
<shoot>
<pict bracket="001" id="0001">
<time>
</time>
<position pitch="-033.8" roll="90.0" yaw="+000.0"/>
</pict>
<pict bracket="001" id="0002">
<time>
</time>
<position pitch="-033.8" roll="90.0" yaw="+060.0"/>
</pict>
<pict bracket="001" id="0003">
<time>
</time>
<position pitch="-033.8" roll="90.0" yaw="+120.0"/>
</pict>
<pict bracket="001" id="0004">
<time>
</time>
<position pitch="-033.8" roll="90.0" yaw="+180.0"/>
</pict>
<pict bracket="001" id="0005">
<time>
</time>
<position pitch="-033.8" roll="90.0" yaw="+240.0"/>
</pict>
<pict bracket="001" id="0006">
<time>
</time>
<position pitch="-033.8" roll="90.0" yaw="+300.0"/>
</pict>
<pict bracket="001" id="0007">
<time>
</time>
<position pitch="+029.7" roll="90.0" yaw="+300.0"/>
</pict>
<pict bracket="001" id="0008">
<time>
</time>
<position pitch="+029.7" roll="90.0" yaw="+240.0"/>
</pict>
<pict bracket="001" id="0009">
<time>
</time>
<position pitch="+029.7" roll="90.0" yaw="+180.0"/>
</pict>
<pict bracket="001" id="0010">
<time>
</time>
<position pitch="+029.7" roll="90.0" yaw="+120.0"/>
</pict>
<pict bracket="001" id="0011">
<time>
</time>
<position pitch="+029.7" roll="90.0" yaw="+060.0"/>
</pict>
<pict bracket="001" id="0012">
<time>
</time>
<position pitch="+029.7" roll="90.0" yaw="+000.0"/>
</pict>
<pict bracket="001" id="0013">
<time>
</time>
<position pitch="+090.0" roll="90.0" yaw="+000.0"/>
</pict>
</shoot>
</papywizard>Last edited by klausesser (2013-03-18 21:07:27)
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Oh my! Sorry I started a debate and a rabbit trail from the original poster's question! :-P I've used a T&C Controller with a Panogear for about a year sporadically with a D70 and 10-20mm lens (which I've since sold, and gave the D70 away to a family member). My D700 and 14-24mm I normally use is obviously too large for the Panogear so I've been shooting manually with a Really Right Stuff head. I never had any trouble with the solutions the T&C Controller plotted and it worked incredibly well on a crop sensor body, if a bit slow on the Merlin mount. Frankly, I welcome not having to use Papywizard and a laptop with customized shooting patterns! :-D I can see where having the ability to use a customized shooting pattern could be very, very useful (especially on a Merlin) for timelapse moves and what not without having a laptop powered up with Papywizard in the field. But that is not my purpose for upgrading to the Panoneed, it just would have been a nice extra use/feature.
Klaus, the focal lengths I will probably program in will be 14mm, 24mm, 35mm, 50mm, and 70mm for spherical panoramas and 70mm, 85mm, 105mm, 135mm, 200mm, 270mm, and 400mm for rectangular panoramas. I have a T&C Controller here already that I can look at the XML files with though, so don't waste your time on my account. :-) Can't wait to use the thing after all the good things I've read by you and others!
Andrew, because I live in the U.S. it didn't make sense economically to ship my existing T&C controller back for updating to work with the Panoneed and pay customs and return shipping. It needed more than a simple software update I guess. Buying a new one and selling my old one made more sense. So if you know anyone that would like a barely used one year old Panogear with T&C Controller in the United States, I'm selling it! I listed it in the hardware forums. Where the D70 was a crop camera and the D700 is a full frame camera the solutions will be different for the same focal length obviously, but I expect it wouldn't matter mathematically whether it was a Merlin or Panoneed head as for as rows and columns are concerned; logically, however, the motors and electrical signals would be far different.
Alain, sorry this thread got so far off from your original post! Glad you found a solution that is working well for you though! :-D
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no shipping needed for updating the TC handcontroller.
also not needed ship the device for a sidegrade from TC handcontroller (Merlin) -> panoneed Version
etc.
its simply an email you receive from Josef with an attachment (or link to download the files)
Georg
Last edited by gkaefer (2013-03-18 22:38:08)
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Hmmm, that's not what Josef had told me: "The hardware of the touch controller is the same, only the firmware is different. Unfortunatelly, the Firmware basic is larger for the Panoneed, so the controller must be send in for reprogramming."
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gkaefer wrote:
so you can't select a Shooting pattern like Michael Toby presented for the 14mm lens. thats true.
And that's what I meant by a 'user-customised shooting pattern'; the ability to use any pattern you wish.
but the TC handcontroller does create its own Shooting pattern, it is valid, it is working, and always error free calculated...
Fine, I understand that; and I'm sure it works well (at least most of the time for most types of scene) but that's not what I was taklking about, is it?
you can discuss which method you prefer and for what reasons, but you cant state it does not offer Support for user customised Shooting Patterns. thats a wrong Statement.
You have chosen to interpret 'user-customised shooting pattern' one way. What I meant by that term was the ability to use any pattern you wish.
You can do that with Papywizard and you cannot do that with Panoneed; and that's what I said.
Whether that ability is necessary or unnecessary, desirable or undesirable is not the point.
PW does offer such on the fly Shooting pattern creation too. you can select the number of rows and columns, the overlap, the angles your pano will cover etc.
But defacto and in Special in use with higher focal lenses These Features are useless in PW, because of PW's inability to automatically calculate the needed number of Images per row to Keep the selected overlap between the Images constant.
The main difference between the T&C controller with Merlin or Panoneed is that the T&C controller will calculate a non-grid/matrix shooting pattern for spherical panos on the fly and Papywizard cannot and instead requires the use of a preset (which defines pattern of shooting co-ordinates) to shoot spherical panos.
For partial panos (panos with a pano FOV of typically much less than 360x180) there's little difference in the ways Papywizard and the T&C controller allow the user to specify the scope of a Mosaic shoot; a shoot using a regular grid/mtrix of shootimg positions. Except that papywizard allows more user control over the direction, column or row precedence of shoot, and start point.
Today, robotic pano heads are mostly used to shoot partial panos using relatively long focal length lenses. Such situations are where the real adavabntages of using a robotic pano head, over a manual pano head, come into play. Such shoots are done using a regular grid/matrix shooting pattern. The Gigapan series of robotic panos head, designed for shooting such scenes, can only shoot a regular grid/amtrix pattern.
And this is - when using PW - a Major reason you must use a customized preset - and this is also a reason why offline and online preset Generators does exist for PW.
Yes, agreed. So what?
using PW you're far more inflexible on Scene, you allways have to produce your customized presets before you leave your house, if you'Re on Scene and you decide to use another lens, or another focal you're not prepared for, you can write a new XML file wherever you're or you can stop your session...
True, but utterly spurious logic in my opinion. Anyone who goes out to shoot high res. spherical panos without to some extent having planned the shoot in advance is 'crazy'.
At present very few people create high-res. spherical panos (partly because the shooting part of the process is probably the least difficult) and they do plan in advance.
I don't think they just go out with a bag full of lenses and camera bodies and assemble a variety of camera/lens combinations on the spur of the moment to shoot high-res spehrical panos..
Do you ever do that? I'm sure Klaus doesn't.
Would it be a 'good thing' if Papywizard could calculate a non-grid shooting pattern for spherical panos on-the-fly like the T&C controller, as well as using presets? - yes, I think so.
Would it be a 'good thing' if the T&C controller could use presets as well as calculating a non-grid shooting pattern for spherical panos on-the-fly? - yes, I think so; but T&C doesn't, nor it seems do you nor Klaus.
So be it....
Please let us not lose sight of the goals of the Papywizard project; a key goal was to produce a low-cost system.
I think you'll agree that a Merlin mount with Papywizard is significantly less costly than a Merlin mount with a T&C controller; and the excellent Panoneed system is another league altogether cost-wise.
Last edited by mediavets (2013-03-19 00:00:05)
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aaronpriest wrote:
Hmmm, that's not what Josef had told me: "The hardware of the touch controller is the same, only the firmware is different. Unfortunatelly, the Firmware basic is larger for the Panoneed, so the controller must be send in for reprogramming."
ok. didnt know that this has changed.
Josef informed me some months ago the Software can be changed by loading a new Firmware...
Georg
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Must need a larger ROM chip or something I would guess.
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mediavets wrote:
Anyone who goes out to shoot high res. spherical panos without to some extent having planned the shoot in advance is 'crazy'.
Hehehehe, THAT would be me! I often hike into crazy locations with two or three lenses, not knowing what I'm going to find and shooting something totally unplanned. I've been limited to 24mm with my manual rig, but 35mm or 50mm will be nice with a Panoneed for some very distant scenes, maybe even shooting a partial 360° (not the whole sphere) at 70+mm for higher resolution where people would want to zoom in and less focal length like 24mm for the sky and ground up close. Swapping lenses on the fly will be a huge improvement for me!
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