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#1 2010-10-23 21:50:38

Marv
Member
From: Gig Harbor USA
Registered: 2009-08-14
Posts: 250

Stiching a Floating point pano.

If I remember correctly... that when shooting the front of a huge building from across the street where you have to take a shot and then move down the street 40' and take another shot, etc, etc, etc, to get the whole building is called a floating point shot. 

I have a 7 shot sequence of such a building.  Is there a setting to make this easier.   On Auto it selects Spherical... which almost works... but I still have alignment problems.  2 images flat refuse to align properly.  Other options are disastorious.  When I manualy try selecting control points they turn red and when I optimize they vanish and the image is unlinked.

What am I doing wrong?


Uploaded Images

Last edited by Marv (2010-10-23 21:51:28)


Marv...

Nikon D700, Nikor 10.5mm DX (Shaved), Nikor 12-24mm DX, Modified Nodal NN180, Home made Nodal Ninja NN5 type Pano head, Really Right Stuff Plate & Clamps, Windows XP.

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#2 2010-10-23 22:24:45

mediavets
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From: Isleham, Cambridgeshire, UK.
Registered: 2007-11-14
Posts: 9825
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Re: Stiching a Floating point pano.

Did you try the 'free nodal point' aka 'multiple viewpoints' feature in APG 2.5 beta 1?

See also:
http://www.autopano.net/forum/p70577-20 … -27#p70577

Last edited by mediavets (2010-10-23 22:29:27)


Andrew Stephens
Nikon D40, Nikkor 10.5mm fisheye, Sigma 8mm f3.5 fisheye, Nikkor 18-55/50/35mm lenses, Nodal Ninja 5 Lite, Nodal Ninja 4 with R-D16, Agno's MrotatorTCS short.
Nikon P5100, CP5000, CP995, FC-E8, WC-E63,WC-E68, TC-E2, Kaidan Kiwi 995, Bophoto pano bracket, Agno's MrotatorA.
Merlin/Orion robotic pano head + Papywizard on Nokia 770/N800/N810 and Windows 8/XP/2K.

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#3 2010-10-23 22:43:19

GURL
Member
From: Grenoble
Registered: 2005-12-06
Posts: 3501

Re: Stiching a Floating point pano.

Try to keep only the control points located on the building façade. For example control points located on the ground (thus at a varying distance from the camera) cant't be matched and should be deleted. As a result the ground should not be visible in the panorama.

This is a very particular kind of panorama: thought they are quite easy to stitch when the subject is flat (like a painting on a wall) they are impossible when objects located at different distance from the camera are involved...


Georges

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#4 2010-10-23 23:27:33

klausesser
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From: Düsseldorf, Germany
Registered: 2006-05-22
Posts: 6602
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Re: Stiching a Floating point pano.

Marv wrote:

What am I doing wrong?

Most important:
1) shoot many (!) small steps.
2) constant parallel distance and constant height - always keep 90° angle to the front.
3) avoid "deep sights" - no perspective, keep it flat as possible.
4) set focal lenghts to 1000mm - or/and use "multiple viewpoints".

best, Klaus


If you want something you´ve never had,
then you´ve got to do something you´ve never done.

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#5 2010-10-26 00:58:31

Marv
Member
From: Gig Harbor USA
Registered: 2009-08-14
Posts: 250

Re: Stiching a Floating point pano.

I loaded APG 2.5 beta2 and played with above tips.
This building has turned into a nightmare.  I had to re-select all the control points as full auto got confused with all the repeated patterns. 
After extensive playing I got all 7 images linked together and almost displaying correctly.

All images were shot the same as you can see from the origionals and display, yet the right hand side has expanded out and lost part of the top overhang.  If I had the top part in the image... I would just fix in PS.

What's going on?  How do I fix?

NOTES:
1.  Shot with 12/18 mm lens. 
2.  This was shot Right to Left.
3.  At one point it said I had bad links between 1&2... and all I did was select areas just to the right of the bad links (and did not include the bad links) and bingo... all links turned green or yellow.


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Last edited by Marv (2010-10-29 20:25:21)


Marv...

Nikon D700, Nikor 10.5mm DX (Shaved), Nikor 12-24mm DX, Modified Nodal NN180, Home made Nodal Ninja NN5 type Pano head, Really Right Stuff Plate & Clamps, Windows XP.

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#6 2010-10-29 23:25:25

Marv
Member
From: Gig Harbor USA
Registered: 2009-08-14
Posts: 250

Re: Stiching a Floating point pano.

mediavets wrote:

Did you try the 'free nodal point' aka 'multiple viewpoints' feature in APG 2.5 beta 1?

I would love to... Where is it?

Marv.


Marv...

Nikon D700, Nikor 10.5mm DX (Shaved), Nikor 12-24mm DX, Modified Nodal NN180, Home made Nodal Ninja NN5 type Pano head, Really Right Stuff Plate & Clamps, Windows XP.

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#7 2010-10-30 19:35:42

gkaefer
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From: Salzburg
Registered: 2009-06-09
Posts: 2713
Website

Re: Stiching a Floating point pano.

Marv wrote:

mediavets wrote:

Did you try the 'free nodal point' aka 'multiple viewpoints' feature in APG 2.5 beta 1?

I would love to... Where is it?

Marv.

Group Settings -> Detection -> Control Points -> Ransac Model: Homography
(on other threat ist was discussed what this option could belong to.... google search gave hint it has to to with "multiple viewpoints"

the multiple viewpoints can be found:

Group Settings -> Optimization -> Optimizer Stages - Option: Multiple viewpoints

Liebe Gruesse,
Georg

PS: I just made a test today with portrait mode photos walking along a river and taking pictures from other side of river (houses about 150m away). I did walk 50 steps to take new pictures what is about 1/3 overlap on final images. This is far to big steps... multiple viewpoint option cant help here. the perspective is far to big, the steps to gig. Next time I try 5meter or so....

PPS: try beta 2 - much improvements and solved bugs ...

Last edited by gkaefer (2010-10-30 19:37:17)

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#8 2010-10-30 22:11:31

mediavets
Moderator
From: Isleham, Cambridgeshire, UK.
Registered: 2007-11-14
Posts: 9825
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Re: Stiching a Floating point pano.

Here's the not-too-good but not-too-bad result I obtained today.

I had about 5 short paces between shots.

Colour correction didn't work, but....I have a feeling that I could get a better result with some experimenation.

FWIW I got a better result using the Similarity Ransac model setting.


Uploaded Images

Last edited by mediavets (2010-10-30 22:15:25)


Andrew Stephens
Nikon D40, Nikkor 10.5mm fisheye, Sigma 8mm f3.5 fisheye, Nikkor 18-55/50/35mm lenses, Nodal Ninja 5 Lite, Nodal Ninja 4 with R-D16, Agno's MrotatorTCS short.
Nikon P5100, CP5000, CP995, FC-E8, WC-E63,WC-E68, TC-E2, Kaidan Kiwi 995, Bophoto pano bracket, Agno's MrotatorA.
Merlin/Orion robotic pano head + Papywizard on Nokia 770/N800/N810 and Windows 8/XP/2K.

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#9 2010-10-31 13:50:06

digipano
Member
Registered: 2008-02-16
Posts: 652

Re: Stiching a Floating point pano.

Looks good but what happened to the color?

Last edited by digipano (2010-10-31 13:50:29)

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#10 2010-10-31 19:18:35

Marv
Member
From: Gig Harbor USA
Registered: 2009-08-14
Posts: 250

Re: Stiching a Floating point pano.

A big thanks to both of you.  Good example Andrew.
Yes... I'm using beta 2.

Tried the "Homography" (Pray for simple laymen terms)... and got the same or worse result.  I do have a good 1/3 overlap... but again... even though there are differences between images... APP is having trouble seeing the differences.

I got the same result in Multible viewpoints.

I even tried "High Detection" and manually/auto setting control points and got 2nd image... and weird color.



Thanks Marv.


Uploaded Images

Last edited by Marv (2010-10-31 19:43:30)


Marv...

Nikon D700, Nikor 10.5mm DX (Shaved), Nikor 12-24mm DX, Modified Nodal NN180, Home made Nodal Ninja NN5 type Pano head, Really Right Stuff Plate & Clamps, Windows XP.

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#11 2010-10-31 19:39:48

mediavets
Moderator
From: Isleham, Cambridgeshire, UK.
Registered: 2007-11-14
Posts: 9825
Website

Re: Stiching a Floating point pano.

digipano wrote:

Looks good but what happened to the color?

Dunno, colour correction seems still to be broken in APG 2.5 beta 2.

If you look a little more closely at my stitched image you'll see that anti-ghost has been somewhat too aggressive in several places.

Last edited by mediavets (2010-10-31 19:42:02)


Andrew Stephens
Nikon D40, Nikkor 10.5mm fisheye, Sigma 8mm f3.5 fisheye, Nikkor 18-55/50/35mm lenses, Nodal Ninja 5 Lite, Nodal Ninja 4 with R-D16, Agno's MrotatorTCS short.
Nikon P5100, CP5000, CP995, FC-E8, WC-E63,WC-E68, TC-E2, Kaidan Kiwi 995, Bophoto pano bracket, Agno's MrotatorA.
Merlin/Orion robotic pano head + Papywizard on Nokia 770/N800/N810 and Windows 8/XP/2K.

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#12 2010-10-31 19:44:27

Marv
Member
From: Gig Harbor USA
Registered: 2009-08-14
Posts: 250

Re: Stiching a Floating point pano.

Ditto.
(see my updated previous post above.)

Marv.

Last edited by Marv (2010-10-31 19:46:43)


Marv...

Nikon D700, Nikor 10.5mm DX (Shaved), Nikor 12-24mm DX, Modified Nodal NN180, Home made Nodal Ninja NN5 type Pano head, Really Right Stuff Plate & Clamps, Windows XP.

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#13 2010-10-31 20:37:13

mediavets
Moderator
From: Isleham, Cambridgeshire, UK.
Registered: 2007-11-14
Posts: 9825
Website

Re: Stiching a Floating point pano.

Marv,

I'd love to have a go with that image set of yours if you are willing to make it available on-line for download (preferably as a ZIP file).


Andrew Stephens
Nikon D40, Nikkor 10.5mm fisheye, Sigma 8mm f3.5 fisheye, Nikkor 18-55/50/35mm lenses, Nodal Ninja 5 Lite, Nodal Ninja 4 with R-D16, Agno's MrotatorTCS short.
Nikon P5100, CP5000, CP995, FC-E8, WC-E63,WC-E68, TC-E2, Kaidan Kiwi 995, Bophoto pano bracket, Agno's MrotatorA.
Merlin/Orion robotic pano head + Papywizard on Nokia 770/N800/N810 and Windows 8/XP/2K.

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#14 2010-11-01 01:00:16

Marv
Member
From: Gig Harbor USA
Registered: 2009-08-14
Posts: 250

Re: Stiching a Floating point pano.

Your on.

Thanks Marv.


Marv...

Nikon D700, Nikor 10.5mm DX (Shaved), Nikor 12-24mm DX, Modified Nodal NN180, Home made Nodal Ninja NN5 type Pano head, Really Right Stuff Plate & Clamps, Windows XP.

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#15 2010-11-01 18:20:57

mediavets
Moderator
From: Isleham, Cambridgeshire, UK.
Registered: 2007-11-14
Posts: 9825
Website

Re: Stiching a Floating point pano.

Marv wrote:

Your on.

Thanks Marv.

I concede defeat.

Some comments:

1. Too few images to attempt this sort of thing - insuffiecinet overlap - I think you need to take many more closer together to a have chance of getting a reasonable result.

2. Orientation (?) of the camera seems to vary producing inconsistent perspective which makes things very difficult if not impossible.

3. The very nature of the scene makes it all that much more difficult - so many repeating features, and any stitch error will stick out like a sore thumb.

4. I think you could have got a good result shooting with a conventional pano head - perhaps you think not?

You may find this related thread on the Panoguide forum interesting:
http://www.panoguide.com/forums/qna/8606/


Uploaded Images

Last edited by mediavets (2010-11-01 18:32:29)


Andrew Stephens
Nikon D40, Nikkor 10.5mm fisheye, Sigma 8mm f3.5 fisheye, Nikkor 18-55/50/35mm lenses, Nodal Ninja 5 Lite, Nodal Ninja 4 with R-D16, Agno's MrotatorTCS short.
Nikon P5100, CP5000, CP995, FC-E8, WC-E63,WC-E68, TC-E2, Kaidan Kiwi 995, Bophoto pano bracket, Agno's MrotatorA.
Merlin/Orion robotic pano head + Papywizard on Nokia 770/N800/N810 and Windows 8/XP/2K.

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#16 2010-11-01 18:49:34

Marv
Member
From: Gig Harbor USA
Registered: 2009-08-14
Posts: 250

Re: Stiching a Floating point pano.

Thanks for trying Andrew.

Quite frankly I thought this would be a good test when I shot it, but I didn't think it would be mountains of work.  I could fix in PS but it's easier to reshoot as a pano next spring.
Thanks for the links.  Good tips espically the 50% overlap and anything that sticks out on the building tip.  Learned a lot.

(I think you could have got a good result shooting with a conventional pano head)  Yes... I agree... even with the Nature of the building.

Thanks, Marv.


Marv...

Nikon D700, Nikor 10.5mm DX (Shaved), Nikor 12-24mm DX, Modified Nodal NN180, Home made Nodal Ninja NN5 type Pano head, Really Right Stuff Plate & Clamps, Windows XP.

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#17 2010-11-02 05:44:32

digipano
Member
Registered: 2008-02-16
Posts: 652

Re: Stiching a Floating point pano.

mediavets wrote:

1. Too few images to attempt this sort of thing - insuffiecinet overlap - I think you need to take many more closer together to a have chance of getting a reasonable result.

I even tried with a 50-70% overlap images but even then it fails where as I can easily do such orthographic panos of large paintings without an issue so it seems that this has the problem with dealing with 3D objects in the scene with which the software cannot cope up as of now.

Doing such panos on pano bracket is not recommended bcoz it will need a fov beyond 150° & the corner will be badly stretched

I will try another attempt this weekend when I have more time to spend on this.

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#18 2010-11-02 10:13:07

mediavets
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From: Isleham, Cambridgeshire, UK.
Registered: 2007-11-14
Posts: 9825
Website

Re: Stiching a Floating point pano.

digipano wrote:

Doing such panos on pano bracket is not recommended bcoz it will need a fov beyond 150° & the corner will be badly stretcheds.

Does it not depend on far away from the building one can get to photograph it?

I felt that in this case it would work to shoot from a pano head - perhaps applying a little geometric distortion correction of the stitched image if desired?


Andrew Stephens
Nikon D40, Nikkor 10.5mm fisheye, Sigma 8mm f3.5 fisheye, Nikkor 18-55/50/35mm lenses, Nodal Ninja 5 Lite, Nodal Ninja 4 with R-D16, Agno's MrotatorTCS short.
Nikon P5100, CP5000, CP995, FC-E8, WC-E63,WC-E68, TC-E2, Kaidan Kiwi 995, Bophoto pano bracket, Agno's MrotatorA.
Merlin/Orion robotic pano head + Papywizard on Nokia 770/N800/N810 and Windows 8/XP/2K.

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#19 2010-11-02 14:24:58

digipano
Member
Registered: 2008-02-16
Posts: 652

Re: Stiching a Floating point pano.

Normally such situations happens when we have a wide building & there are some trees or poles or any kind of obstruction in front of the building, in some case it can be a boundary wall, in such case you cannot shoot from far distance & have to place the camera between the building & obstruction which in most cases will impose a HFOV more than 150° wide.

Orthographic pano help in such situations.

Last edited by digipano (2010-11-02 14:27:15)

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#20 2010-11-02 15:25:32

mediavets
Moderator
From: Isleham, Cambridgeshire, UK.
Registered: 2007-11-14
Posts: 9825
Website

Re: Stiching a Floating point pano.

digipano wrote:

Normally such situations happens when we have a wide building & there are some trees or poles or any kind of obstruction in front of the building, in some case it can be a boundary wall, in such case you cannot shoot from far distance & have to place the camera between the building & obstruction which in most cases will impose a HFOV more than 150° wide.

Orthographic pano help in such situations.

If only there was some software that could easily and reliably stitch such panos.

APG 2.5 beta 2 shows promise but it doesn't seem quite 'good enough' yet - or maybe it's very sensitive to the type of scene and/or how you shoot the images?

Last edited by mediavets (2010-11-02 15:25:55)


Andrew Stephens
Nikon D40, Nikkor 10.5mm fisheye, Sigma 8mm f3.5 fisheye, Nikkor 18-55/50/35mm lenses, Nodal Ninja 5 Lite, Nodal Ninja 4 with R-D16, Agno's MrotatorTCS short.
Nikon P5100, CP5000, CP995, FC-E8, WC-E63,WC-E68, TC-E2, Kaidan Kiwi 995, Bophoto pano bracket, Agno's MrotatorA.
Merlin/Orion robotic pano head + Papywizard on Nokia 770/N800/N810 and Windows 8/XP/2K.

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#21 2010-11-02 16:17:58

digipano
Member
Registered: 2008-02-16
Posts: 652

Re: Stiching a Floating point pano.

mediavets wrote:

APG 2.5 beta 2 shows promise but it doesn't seem quite 'good enough' yet - or maybe it's very sensitive to the type of scene and/or how you shoot the images?

Yes I do remember Alex mentioned that 2.5 will have orthographic stitch mode but seems that as of now its quite limited or the various modes need to be explained in detail to how they work so the user can shoot accordingly & get the result.

Flat art work can always be stitch with the present APG by altering exif to 1000mm focal length
Shooting method will remain same for the linear building (same for artwork) though I have tried varying the overlap from 30%-60% but none have worked.

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#22 2010-11-02 16:37:44

gkaefer
Member
From: Salzburg
Registered: 2009-06-09
Posts: 2713
Website

Re: Stiching a Floating point pano.

floating point panos...
... patents:

http://www.freepatentsonline.com/y2008/0056612.html
and here see the linked pdf

lg
Georg

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#23 2010-11-02 18:00:12

digipano
Member
Registered: 2008-02-16
Posts: 652

Re: Stiching a Floating point pano.

OK Feels great I finally did it successful but not sure if I can repeat such results which is very important.

The set I succeeded was 9 images with 80% over lap, the main issue is that the editing preview shows unblended images making it hard to judge the results.

Image 1 shows unblended preview
But once rendering I checked the following options
Image 3

finally got the rendered image as this
Image 4

I then blended a regular pano shot with the linear image in CS4 & got the multi projection image
Image 2


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Last edited by digipano (2010-11-02 18:07:59)

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#24 2010-11-02 18:05:35

[bo]
community overseer
From: Bulgaria
Registered: 2006-05-05
Posts: 1840

Re: Stiching a Floating point pano.

Andrew, I really like in your test how the small green bush "grows" out of the trunk of the big tree in front and the tree itself looks like some sort of hovering autumn decoration!


Some of my panoramas, posted in the Autopano Pro flickr group.

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#25 2010-11-02 18:14:17

mediavets
Moderator
From: Isleham, Cambridgeshire, UK.
Registered: 2007-11-14
Posts: 9825
Website

Re: Stiching a Floating point pano.

[bo] wrote:

Andrew, I really like in your test how the small green bush "grows" out of the trunk of the big tree in front and the tree itself looks like some sort of hovering autumn decoration!

And one tree and a silver car 'disappeared' altogether.

That anti-ghost system has a 'mind' of its own.


Andrew Stephens
Nikon D40, Nikkor 10.5mm fisheye, Sigma 8mm f3.5 fisheye, Nikkor 18-55/50/35mm lenses, Nodal Ninja 5 Lite, Nodal Ninja 4 with R-D16, Agno's MrotatorTCS short.
Nikon P5100, CP5000, CP995, FC-E8, WC-E63,WC-E68, TC-E2, Kaidan Kiwi 995, Bophoto pano bracket, Agno's MrotatorA.
Merlin/Orion robotic pano head + Papywizard on Nokia 770/N800/N810 and Windows 8/XP/2K.

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