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#1 2010-03-03 02:06:55

Marv
Member
From: Gig Harbor USA
Registered: 2009-08-14
Posts: 247

Pre-process HDR images and APG messes them up.

If I pre-process my HDR raw images in a third party app (and combine to get 1 HDR image) and get the HDR lighting just right, like an evening scene that looks like evening, then take it in APG... APG tries to turn it into a day scene by lightning everything up, and I wind up trying to post correct it back to a evening scene.

Yes... APG has a edit/Levels control, but that does not provide the control one needs to match the original processed HDR image.

Just wondering if any one else has run into this problem and how they solved it?


Marv...

Nikon D700, Nikor 10.5mm DX (Shaved), Nikor 12-24mm DX, Modified Nodal NN180, Home made Nodal Ninja NN5 type Pano head, Really Right Stuff Plate & Clamps, Windows XP.

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#2 2010-03-03 04:59:12

digipano
Member
Registered: 2008-02-16
Posts: 650

Re: Pre-process HDR images and APG messes them up.

you need to switch OFF the auto color correction in this case, that's messing it up.
Set color correction to NONE.

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#3 2010-03-03 11:51:04

gkaefer
Member
From: Salzburg
Registered: 2009-06-09
Posts: 1694
Website

Re: Pre-process HDR images and APG messes them up.

and make sure your external software does not edit/change/delete EXIF data saved in your raws....

post/prepprocessing files often leads to changed EXIF data. After processing the images you can reiumport the exif data, e.g. with:
http://www.opanda.com/en/pe/help/index.html

Liebe Gruesse,
Georg

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#4 2010-03-03 13:10:26

klausesser
Member
From: Düsseldorf, Germany
Registered: 2006-05-22
Posts: 4598
Website

Re: Pre-process HDR images and APG messes them up.

Marv wrote:

If I pre-process my HDR raw images in a third party app (and combine to get 1 HDR image) and get the HDR lighting just right, like an evening scene that looks like evening, then take it in APG... APG tries to turn it into a day scene by lightning everything up, and I wind up trying to post correct it back to a evening scene.

Yes... APG has a edit/Levels control, but that does not provide the control one needs to match the original processed HDR image.

Just wondering if any one else has run into this problem and how they solved it?

Could you explain EXACTLY what you did? There´s no HDR RAW images. Processing bracketed RAW shots to HDR: what kind of file do you save:
.exr, .hdr, .tiff 8, .tiff 16
Putting .exr or .hdr into APP/APG i think isn´t a good way.

Depends on what kind of files you need afterwards for which purpose.

Do you need .hdr as a rendered result?

best, Klaus


„It’s not creative unless it sells.″ Leo Burnett

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#5 2010-03-03 17:42:20

Marv
Member
From: Gig Harbor USA
Registered: 2009-08-14
Posts: 247

Re: Pre-process HDR images and APG messes them up.

Digipano:
Thanks.  Tested. That works great.

Gkaefer:
Good point.  Thanks for the link.
I know I'm jumping the gun, but how would you reiumport the exif data?

Klaus:
I need to pre HDR the images because I crash APG with 3 row, 8 images ea, with a 5 image HDR bracket per view (120 total images) (previous post).   Plus I did not like the lack of HDR processing control in APG.
I use HDR "Photomatix", and final image is Tiff, 8 bit.


Marv...

Nikon D700, Nikor 10.5mm DX (Shaved), Nikor 12-24mm DX, Modified Nodal NN180, Home made Nodal Ninja NN5 type Pano head, Really Right Stuff Plate & Clamps, Windows XP.

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#6 2010-03-03 18:27:08

Mr Moose
Member
Registered: 2009-11-19
Posts: 40

Re: Pre-process HDR images and APG messes them up.

I'm doing the same thing, but in Photomatix Pro I'm using exposer blend mode (its called fusion in the latest release) Some where along the way the EXIF data is lost.
Here's my work flow, process the bracketed images in ACR with out any adjustments and convert to 16 bit tif. ACR is supposed embed the EXIF data when converting to tif. Then, depending how many images there are, I either do batch convert in Photomatix pro or manually select them.
I then bring in the HDR images to APP.
The image that APP outputs looks great, but if it had the EXIF data, what difference would I see?
In the folder I tell ACR to save the tif's files to, there are two files that say Bridge??? I assume that the EXIF data are in those files, how can I get the EXIF data back into the tif? A better question, why isn't ACR embedding the EXIF data in the tif's?

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#7 2010-03-03 18:38:26

Marv
Member
From: Gig Harbor USA
Registered: 2009-08-14
Posts: 247

Re: Pre-process HDR images and APG messes them up.

Mr. Moose, pardon my naiveitivity, but what is ACR?


Marv...

Nikon D700, Nikor 10.5mm DX (Shaved), Nikor 12-24mm DX, Modified Nodal NN180, Home made Nodal Ninja NN5 type Pano head, Really Right Stuff Plate & Clamps, Windows XP.

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#8 2010-03-03 18:45:57

mediavets
Moderator
From: Isleham, Cambridgeshire, UK.
Registered: 2007-11-14
Posts: 8080
Website

Re: Pre-process HDR images and APG messes them up.

Marv wrote:

Mr. Moose, pardon my naiveitivity, but what is ACR?

Adobe Camera RAW is the Photoshop RAW image converter.


Andrew Stephens
Nikon D40, Nikkor 10.5mm fisheye, Sigma 8mm f3.5 fisheye, Nikkor 18-55/50/35mm  lenses, Nodal Ninja 5 Lite, Agno's Mrotator TCSshort
Nikon P5100, CP5000, CP995, FC-E8, WC-E63,WC-E68, TC-E2, Kaidan Kiwi 995, Bophoto pano bracket
Merlin/Orion panohead + Papywizard on Nokia 770/N800 and Windows XP/2K

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#9 2010-03-03 19:24:56

klausesser
Member
From: Düsseldorf, Germany
Registered: 2006-05-22
Posts: 4598
Website

Re: Pre-process HDR images and APG messes them up.

Hi Marv!

I always process my bracketed shots in Photomatix first and make them 16bit/Tiffs. (when you shoot bracketed you can use jpg without problems - 3 different exposed jpgs contain more information than 1 RAW).
After that i feed them into APG and after stitching/editing i render 16bit Tiffs in the end.

This way i can use the very, very good and helpful Color Correction with it´s anchors.

IF you really NEED HDR as output the way to go is to feed all bracketed shots into APG, stitch and edit them as bracketed layers WITHOUT Color Correction and render 3 bracketed layers (just add %L to the pano´s name) and save the three layers as 16bit TIFF.
These i feed into Photomatix and generate "real" HDR as output - without tonemapping/fusion - to be used as IBL in Maya, Cinema 4D and other 3D animators.

This procedere only makes sense when you need an .exr or a .hdr sphere for IBL (ImageBasedLighting) in 3D applications.

best, Klaus

Last edited by klausesser (2010-03-03 19:28:18)


„It’s not creative unless it sells.″ Leo Burnett

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#10 2010-03-03 19:38:34

Marv
Member
From: Gig Harbor USA
Registered: 2009-08-14
Posts: 247

Re: Pre-process HDR images and APG messes them up.

Thanks for the great explination Klaus.   You got me thinking about my work flow.
I only need jpg as final pano at this stage of life.  However... I shall render in Photomatix 16bit Tiff (Du)... and try APG Tiff 16bit output and see what happens to web playback preformance on different devices.


Marv...

Nikon D700, Nikor 10.5mm DX (Shaved), Nikor 12-24mm DX, Modified Nodal NN180, Home made Nodal Ninja NN5 type Pano head, Really Right Stuff Plate & Clamps, Windows XP.

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#11 2010-03-03 23:03:30

gkaefer
Member
From: Salzburg
Registered: 2009-06-09
Posts: 1694
Website

Re: Pre-process HDR images and APG messes them up.

Marv wrote:

Digipano:
Thanks.  Tested. That works great.

Gkaefer:
Good point.  Thanks for the link.
I know I'm jumping the gun, but how would you reiumport the exif data?

Klaus:
I need to pre HDR the images because I crash APG with 3 row, 8 images ea, with a 5 image HDR bracket per view (120 total images) (previous post).   Plus I did not like the lack of HDR processing control in APG.
I use HDR "Photomatix", and final image is Tiff, 8 bit.

reimport - my above first link is to a non freeware....
so here is a freeware that works also in batch to import exif:
http://freeweb.siol.net/hrastni3/
its an gui to the also fre cmd line tool exif tool.

mark all images you need to import exif data to...
export/import->restore metadata...

Liebe Grusse,
Georg

Last edited by gkaefer (2010-03-03 23:03:55)

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#12 2010-03-04 01:37:38

Marv
Member
From: Gig Harbor USA
Registered: 2009-08-14
Posts: 247

Re: Pre-process HDR images and APG messes them up.

Gkaefer, thanks, that is a big help.

I just barely got it as he's shutting his site down.  See msg below.

[i]"Notice!
Because I have switched to another internet provider,
I can't maintain these pages anymore. If you can still read this
message, it's because this content hasn't been deleted yet.
As it seems, my new internet provider doesn't offer any
web space for free. Meaning: until I find some free solution,
ExiftoolGUI and other projects I had in mind, are frozen.
02.Mar.2010"


Marv...

Nikon D700, Nikor 10.5mm DX (Shaved), Nikor 12-24mm DX, Modified Nodal NN180, Home made Nodal Ninja NN5 type Pano head, Really Right Stuff Plate & Clamps, Windows XP.

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#13 2010-03-04 07:45:49

fma38
Moderator
From: Grenoble, France
Registered: 2005-12-07
Posts: 6038
Website

Re: Pre-process HDR images and APG messes them up.

BTW, I remember that one APP v2 goal was to be able to make some 'enfusing' inside APP. Alexandre, you talked about something like 1 -> n or n -> 1 stacking... Is it always planned? That would solve a lot of situations...


Frédéric

Canon 20D + 17-40/f4 L USM + 70-200/f4 L USM + 50/f1.4 USM + Tokina 10-17 3.5-4.5 AF DX Fisheye
Merlin/Orion panohead + Papywizard on Nokia N800 and HP TC-1100

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#14 2010-03-04 10:59:33

gkaefer
Member
From: Salzburg
Registered: 2009-06-09
Posts: 1694
Website

Re: Pre-process HDR images and APG messes them up.

Marv wrote:

Gkaefer, thanks, that is a big help.

I just barely got it as he's shutting his site down.  See msg below.

[i]"Notice!
Because I have switched to another internet provider,
I can't maintain these pages anymore. If you can still read this
message, it's because this content hasn't been deleted yet.
As it seems, my new internet provider doesn't offer any
web space for free. Meaning: until I find some free solution,
ExiftoolGUI and other projects I had in mind, are frozen.
02.Mar.2010"

I saw it!
perhaps kolor could sponsor a wikipage to host this tool.
seems to be only static pages plus some additional (non project related images).
but on his website I did not see an hint to his email adress....

Liebe Gruesse,
Georg

Last edited by gkaefer (2010-03-04 11:00:38)

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#15 2010-03-04 18:43:17

Marv
Member
From: Gig Harbor USA
Registered: 2009-08-14
Posts: 247

Re: Pre-process HDR images and APG messes them up.

Yesterday I saw a referance to see his email in I beleive the 1st line text msg with the file... but I can not find it there or anywhere.   Too bad... I had a way to host his site for free.


Marv...

Nikon D700, Nikor 10.5mm DX (Shaved), Nikor 12-24mm DX, Modified Nodal NN180, Home made Nodal Ninja NN5 type Pano head, Really Right Stuff Plate & Clamps, Windows XP.

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#16 2010-03-04 22:44:15

gkaefer
Member
From: Salzburg
Registered: 2009-06-09
Posts: 1694
Website

Re: Pre-process HDR images and APG messes them up.

look at:
http://www.dpreview.com/members/7425817313
and:
http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read. … i&qf=m
you need to register to see his emailadress...

Liebe Gruesse,
Georg

Last edited by gkaefer (2010-03-04 22:46:40)

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#17 2010-03-05 08:48:10

AlexandreJ
Absolute beginner
From: Challes les eaux, France
Registered: 2005-11-14
Posts: 7631
Website

Re: Pre-process HDR images and APG messes them up.

Yes : enfusing is under integration.

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#18 2010-03-06 22:11:30

Nanard
Member
From: France
Registered: 2007-07-30
Posts: 93
Website

Re: Pre-process HDR images and APG messes them up.

Could someone explain me what 'enfusing' means, and what it will bring to APP .
Thanks

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#19 2010-03-06 22:40:24

mediavets
Moderator
From: Isleham, Cambridgeshire, UK.
Registered: 2007-11-14
Posts: 8080
Website

Re: Pre-process HDR images and APG messes them up.

Nanard wrote:

Could someone explain me what 'enfusing' means, and what it will bring to APP .
Thanks

Enfuse relates to exposure blending:
http://software.bergmark.com/enfuseGUI/Main.html


Andrew Stephens
Nikon D40, Nikkor 10.5mm fisheye, Sigma 8mm f3.5 fisheye, Nikkor 18-55/50/35mm  lenses, Nodal Ninja 5 Lite, Agno's Mrotator TCSshort
Nikon P5100, CP5000, CP995, FC-E8, WC-E63,WC-E68, TC-E2, Kaidan Kiwi 995, Bophoto pano bracket
Merlin/Orion panohead + Papywizard on Nokia 770/N800 and Windows XP/2K

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