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Hi, let me introduce the details of the autopano tour.
http://www.autopano.net/blog/2008/12/17 … r-preview/
As you can see in the video, here's the details of the product.
This tool is a quick and easy way to create virtual visit. As for Autopano Pro product, we want something simple but powerful. So, many part that were before complicated to do for virtual visit are now simple with autopano tour.
What we currently already support (and that will be available soon in the next alpha 2 version of autopano giga ) :
- full 360x180 equirectangular panorama import but also partial panorama
- hotspot edition using either polygonal zone or by icon. The icon can be an image, or a flash animation
- quick and easy polygonal drawing tool
- quick and easy hotspot association with graph line
- lens flare edition
- text field display from a hotspots ( feature not finished yet )
- logo on the outputted flash
- flash 9 or flash 10 ( this option will be removed soon as the produced flash will decide itself directly)
- images can be embedded or not
That for the first version alpha 2.
Now, what's planned for the final product :
In fact, it will work in 2 modes. Standard mode with the above feature.
An enhanced mode will exist for people that have a full unlimited krpano license. If you have that, it will unlock autopano tour and you can use more feature of krpano. For example : multiresolution, new projection mode, etc. We are working closely with klaus to really create the best flash panorama platform available. So that's our contribution to this wonderful panorama flash viewer.
The second feature we are working on is something that is available in both mode. We call it skin/template feature. Just choose a skin for a virtual visit and automatically everything in that tour will have that look : hotspots, animation during transition, direction buttons in 2d, etc. This feature will allow you to create really beautiful virtual visit without even the need to be a good designer. Just shot panorama well ( that's already a challenge ).
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Ouuh la la, que c'est dur de voir cela et de devoir patienter. Tu nous mets le désir à 200%, attention aux coeurs sensibles 
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Very impressive. I especially like the tracing logic that curves the lines when drawing polygon hotspots!
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Looks good and final version sounds great (incidentally will it allow integration of sound?).
Is Autopano Tour a separate standalone program?
Will it be sold separately?
Will there be any means of adding cusomised on-screen controllers and adding auto-rotation and 'return to horizon and initial zoom' as there is Pano2VR for example?
What relationship - if any - is there between Autopnao Tour (APT) and KRpano?
How demanding is APT of computer resources - for example what sort of system would one need to handle a say 12 pano tour of a 12 room house?
If final tour is in one SWF file does this not mean it will take a long time to download and play?
Last edited by mediavets (2008-12-18 11:15:19)
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mediavets wrote:
Is Autopano Tour a separate standalone program?
No, it is part of Autopano Giga.
mediavets wrote:
Will it be sold separately?
No plan for that. But perhaps this tool will be shipped with any krpano unlimited license.
mediavets wrote:
Will there be any means of adding cusomised on-screen controllers and adding auto-rotation and 'return to horizon and initial zoom' as there is Pano2VR for example?
Yes, in the enhanced mode that gives you the same control as with KRPano direct xml edition.
mediavets wrote:
What relationship - if any - is there between Autopnao Tour (APT) and KRpano?
KRpano helps us on the flash creation and we help him promotion his tool.
We working closely to make with this tool and krpano the best solution for panorama viewing in flash.
mediavets wrote:
How demanding is APT of computer resources - for example what sort of system would one need to handle a say 12 pano tour of a 12 room house?
No problem, for that. We didn't try to find the limits yet, but it is not at all using memory.
mediavets wrote:
If final tour is in one SWF file does this not mean it will take a long time to download and play?
Yes on ly one swf, but images can be external, so everything is really fast because preview is loaded before full size.
The swf is around 60 / 70 ko.
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Beau travail ! Bravo encore et encore.
"Ma"
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AlexandreJ wrote:
mediavets wrote:
Is Autopano Tour a separate standalone program?
No, it is part of Autopano Giga.
mediavets wrote:
Will it be sold separately?
No plan for that. But perhaps this tool will be shipped with any krpano unlimited license.
So it seems it can/could be a standalone program?
So, for example, IF it was shipped with KRpano unlimited license a user you chhoose APP V2 and partner that with KRpano unlimited license to obtain APT?
I am confused.
.............
With APG - If I wished to (post) process stitched and rendered pano images before using them in APT I guess this is possible? Would I then run APG and go directly to the APT part of the APG program and import the images to create the tour?
..............
There are so many thing I like about APT as shown in the preview - but I would sorely miss the Patch tool from Pano2VR, it seems as if most other functionality that I like in Pano2VR may eventually be available in APT.
I guess it will become clearer in time whether I will/would choose to migrate from APP+Pano2VR to APG/APT.
The question for me is not APG/APT or 'APPV2 and handcoding XML for KRpano or Flash Panorama Player' - it is APP+Pano2VR or APG/APT.
I can't see any way of combining APT and Pano2VR - they both aspire to do very much the same things - so I think it will be case of one or the other for me.
So what I guess I'm looking for in APT is all the functionality and ease of use of Pano2VR plus the addiitional functionality offered by KRpano but without any hand coding of XML (I'm too old and too lazy to get into that).
How much does user experience with APT depend on GPU processing?
Are you yet in a position to describe what GPUs are supported and which graphics cards recommended for APPV2 and APG/APT? I know I'll have to buy something as my current graphics system is pretty basic.
Last edited by mediavets (2008-12-18 11:56:45)
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mediavets wrote:
So it seems it can/could be a standalone program?
Autopano Tour is in fact a standalone application. Autopano Giga is more a generic term that correspond to a suite of software rather than a standalone application.
mediavets wrote:
So, for example, IF it was shipped with KRpano unlimited license a user you chhoose APP V2 and partner that with KRpano unlimited license to obtain APT?
It's not done yet. We proposed to Klaus to do so, if he don't want, I won't force him.
mediavets wrote:
With APG - If I wished to (post) process stitched and rendered pano images before using them in APT I guess this is possible? Would I then run APG and go directly to the APT part of the APG program and import the images to create the tour?
Totally possible. The software Autopano Giga is still only a stitcher. As an output you'll get panorama images. These images are the input of Autopano Tour.
What you do in between is your workflow. BTW : in Autopano Tour, there will be a nadir / zenith patching tool for the final version. I forgot that in the previous list.
mediavets wrote:
There are so many thing I like about APT as shown in the preview - but I would sorely miss the Patch tool from Pano2VR, it seems as if most other functionality that I like in Pano2VR may eventually be available in APT.
AH ! I've read your mind in the preview sentence !
mediavets wrote:
The question for me is not APG/APT or 'APPV2 and handcoding XML for KRpano or Flash Panorama Player' - it is APP+Pano2VR or APG/APT.
I can't see any way of combining APT and Pano2VR - they both aspire to do very much the same things - so I think it will be case of one or the other for me.
Pano2Vr is more for flash conversion. APT concentrate more on virtual visit, when there are hotspots, text zone, etc. It's more designed for that and less designed for a simple panorama to flash conversion.
mediavets wrote:
So what I guess I'm looking for in APT is all the functionality and ease of use of Pano2VR plus the addiitional functionality offered by KRpano but without any hand coding of XML (I'm too old and too lazy to get into that).
Yes, that's it.
mediavets wrote:
How much does user experience with APT depend on GPU processing?
No GPU will be harmed by APT, only in APG.
Are you yet in a position to describe what GPUs are supported and which graphics cards recommended for APPV2 and APG/APT? I know I'll have to buy something as my current graphics system is pretty basic.
Yes. For APG 2, we have quite a good idea of what is needed.
- 256 Memory at least
- full opengl 2.0 support at least
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Alexandre
lt sounds very good - thanks for the additional detail.
I think Pano2VR is (slowly) evolving towards becoming a virtual tour program,. That is certainly what many users seem to hope/want anyway; perhaps they would instead switch to APT/KRpano if that bundled option becomes available.
IMO it would be harder to get PTGui and Autodesk Stitcher users to switch to APG - as they might see it, 'just to get APT'. People seem to get very committed to a particular stitcher. Mind you if I'd invested the time required to get good at using PTGui I expect I'd be loathe to write off that 'investment' too.
So the ability to acquire APT other by than buying APG would seem to address a potential market opportunity/demand.
Last edited by mediavets (2008-12-18 15:36:22)
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AlexandreJ wrote:
Mediavets wrote:
Are you yet in a position to describe what GPUs are supported and which graphics cards recommended for APPV2 and APG/APT? I know I'll have to buy something as my current graphics system is pretty basic.
Yes. For APG 2, we have quite a good idea of what is needed.
- 256 Memory at least
- full opengl 2.0 support at least
OK - that's helpful. Whether I can find such a card for my old Dell GX270 which has an AGP slot and PCI but no PCIe I don't know; I'll search around.
Do you prefer/recommend one GPU chipset to another?
Are there any special considerations for running a multi display setup?
..............
BTW I am interested to learn what hardware and software tools you are using to create your video tutorials because the results are very good.
Last edited by mediavets (2008-12-18 15:41:43)
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mediavets wrote:
Do you prefer/recommend one GPU chipset to another?
No advise. Nvidia, ati, or even Intel.
mediavets wrote:
Are there any special considerations for running a multi display setup?
ATI multiple display is notably better than nvidia one.
mediavets wrote:
BTW I am interested to learn what hardware and software tools you are using to create your video tutorials because the results are very good.
Email to rami for that.
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AlexandreJ wrote:
mediavets wrote:
Do you prefer/recommend one GPU chipset to another?
No advise. Nvidia, ati, or even Intel.
mediavets wrote:
Are there any special considerations for running a multi display setup?
ATI multiple display is notably better than nvidia one.
Alexandre (or anyone else with a view),
This seems to be the best I can get for AGP - sadly I cannot afford a new PC right now.
PowerColor ATI Radeon HD3850 512MB GDDR3 Dual DVI/TV-Out AGP, Retail
http://www.tekheads.co.uk/s/product?product=609880
Do you think it would be 'good enough' to run GPU processing aspects of APPV2/APG effectively?
I know it's a 'cheap' graphics card, as they go, but it costs as much as I paid for the PC (a Dell GX270) 18 months ago; and there's very little around now for AGP that supports 512MB RAM and OpenGL 2.
The only alternatives seem to be.
Sapphire ATI Radeon HD3850 512MB DDR3 Dual DVI / TV-Out / HDTV (AGP)
http://www.tekheads.co.uk/s/product?product=608909
Very similar to the PowerColor board. HD 3850 and DDR3.
Or this one - cheaper.
Asus ATI Radeon HD 3650 Silent 512MB DDR2 Dual DVI / TV-Out / HDTV (AGP)
http://www.tekheads.co.uk/s/product?product=609011
Lesser performance GPU (HD3650 vs. HD3850) but no fan, so silent cooling, which might be a benefit. DDR2 RAM rather than DDR3
Last edited by mediavets (2008-12-18 17:30:02)
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No problem for this hardware. It's really better than mine ! I use a nvidia 8800 GTS and it's already working really great.
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AlexandreJ wrote:
No problem for this hardware. It's really better than mine ! I use a nvidia 8800 GTS and it's already working really great.
Thanks for quick and positive reply. it is encouraging to think my trusty old PC may still have little life left in it.
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Aleaxandre,
A bit more 'research' suggests that these graphics cards are not going to work in my old Dell GX270.
It seems you need a PC with a 450W PSU for these cards and the PSU in the Dell GX270 is only 250W.
So looks like I'll have to save up for a new PC. because I don't think one could fit a larger PSU in the Dell and the cost of doing so plus the cost of the graphics card would probably not be worth it to upgrade an older PC?
So no GPU processing for me anytime soon with APP/APG unfortunately.
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Great.
A great gift for Christmas
Thanks Santa "Kolor" Klaus 
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DrSlony wrote:
err, why? A PSU costs peanuts.
ps. PSUs die easily, so do yourself a favor and spend two peanuts on one, you'll save in the long run. And it should run cooler and quieter.
That's what I thought initially but I discovered that many Dell systems - including the GX270 - use non-standard PSUs and power connectiors and non-standard pinouts on connectors. And I'm not sure I want to start 'hacking' a PSU.
Machine is already very quite one of the quietest I've ever used.
I found a company (in US) who lists a special model 500W PSU for Dell systems - but they are out of stock (pehaps it no longer produced) also I can find no stockist in the UK - their price is about US$90 in the US so would be quite costly even if it was available here in UK - they quote US$ 35 to shipo to UK where I would get hit for import duty at 10% plus VAT at 15%. Otherwise it would be perfect as it has the PCie power connectors required to provide subsidiary power to the graphics cards (AGP slots do not provide enough power alone for these cards).
http://www.pcpower.com/products/descrip … _500_Dell/
This not peanuts now tht the GBP is at its lowest value against the US$ for a generation (or two) - it would have been OK not so long ago when 1 GBP was worth 2 US$. I only paid GBP 80 for the Dell GX270 system over a year back and the new graphics card will cost another GBP 80-90 and it is an AGP card so not much use in a newer system in years to come.
With the deepening recession PC makers must be getting desperate to sell stuff so I expect some special offers after Christmas - so perhaps time to consider a new system which has support for PCIe graphics?
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I wouldn't pour such dollar into an *obsolete* hardware/interface. AGP is dead. P4 is dead. A decent C2D or even C2Q machine is less than a thousand Euros currently - I'd go with that.
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[bo] wrote:
I wouldn't pour such dollar into an *obsolete* hardware/interface. AGP is dead. P4 is dead. A decent C2D or even C2Q machine is less than a thousand Euros currently - I'd go with that.
That's my feeling too - but sadly I don't have a thousand Euros buring a hole in my pocket right now.
I am quite interested in the Dell Precision T3400 - from their Outlet Store - I think that would be good enough for me and prices are fairly reasonable. I've never been willing to pay top dollar for the latest and greatest (aka the bleeding edge) for any type of technology when you can pay so much less for stuff that's 'good enough' and perhaps secondhand.
From what I read there may not be too much software yet that takes advantage of Quad core - so Duo core may be enough for now - what do you think?
I'd most likely be running Windows XP32 as I have so much more 'legacy' hardware that I still want/need to use.
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Quad core is pretty much utilized in APP (and some PS actions). In my experience (2 Quad machines, 2 C2D), double the cores mean double the rendering power. Don't want to turn the topic into a HW talk, enough threads on that already. My advice: choose pre-assembled machines only if you cannot put a cpu and a mb together, as they tend to cost more. If you cannot afford C2Q now, wait 6 months for i7 920. It won't come cheaper, but for the same price you'll get plenty more. And lastly, if you *have* to buy now, go with a nice Wolfdale, preferably 8400 and up, clocked to 3.5Ghz at least.
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Or better yet, get a good Mac on credit, you'll never regret you had to pay for it longer.
Same CPU, much faster rendering!
If Mac is impossible, get a decent PC you can afford and install Linux - still MUCH faster. Talking about Autopano in particular, I ran this test today. The considerably slower and with less RAM Linux machine rendered panoramas considerably faster.
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Regarding competitive software, I'm currently using Realviz (now Autodesk) Stitcher, Pano2VR and KRpano.
Stitcher still has some better features (spherical 3D GUI) but as far as I can see from Autopano 1.4 and Alfa 1 demos I am testing, I am ready to change the pano software, only because of the better distortion correction (seamless stitching) of Autopano. This really saves time and I usually have to do 10-15 panoramas from one photo session.
Regarding tour features, Stitcher is very limited. You can do much better with the new Pano2VR, and still much, much better is possible with XML and KRpano (I may be too old as well, because I don't like it)
So my conclusion is - upgrade to Autopano Giga. Where is Alfa 2 ???
Last edited by nspirov (2008-12-20 15:18:03)
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OUTSTANDING !!! It makes me even happier I chose APP for Mac, now if I can just learn patience:)
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[bo] wrote:
Quad core is pretty much utilized in APP (and some PS actions). In my experience (2 Quad machines, 2 C2D), double the cores mean double the rendering power. Don't want to turn the topic into a HW talk, enough threads on that already. My advice: choose pre-assembled machines only if you cannot put a cpu and a mb together, as they tend to cost more. If you cannot afford C2Q now, wait 6 months for i7 920. It won't come cheaper, but for the same price you'll get plenty more. And lastly, if you *have* to buy now, go with a nice Wolfdale, preferably 8400 and up, clocked to 3.5Ghz at least.
Hi!
Funny - i thought about new hardware today. After using Macs for more than 20 years now i think to have a PC-architecture additionally - solely for APP running on Linux, the KR editor and some special things like 3D number-crunching.
I´m running a G5 2x2GHz with 8GB RAM and comparing the price of a Mac Pro with a self assembled Linux PC seems to make the PC a winner. Especially because there are new Intel processors ante portas - once more . .
The Mac not being upgradable wasn´t an issue to me - until now . . for using GPUs on heavy graphic cards i think is not very well supported on Macs.
Im i right? I never believed i would think about that some days . . 
Are there "hard facts" to change - especially under APP-view . . Of course i´m gonna use my Mac with most programs for some time to come.
The machine´s architecture will be more and more important when it comes to programs like APP and some others . . . .
all the best - and MERRY CHRISTMAS!! :-) , Klaus
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