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Just when I thought I was having some success with apg, along comes yet another brain numbing, mind blowing cannot work out what I am doing wrong.. When using my 50mm I had some success, so I bought a 35mm.. 
The file size of the images was big for my Mac so I reduced them and tried to stitch.. Unfortunately, I have holes due to too much ceiling with no features.. Thats ok, so I use the Papywizard with my xml code. I loaded the images with the code and all looked good to go.. I then said ok and it went straight to detect and did its thing... It created the perfect dogs dinner.. oh hum.. what am I doing soooo wrong.. I tried doing the same using the large images with no size change.. This is what I got...
Destiny..
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Destiny wrote:
Just when I thought I was having some success with apg, along comes yet another brain numbing, mind blowing cannot work out what I am doing wrong.. When using my 50mm I had some success, so I bought a 35mm..
The file size of the images was big for my Mac so I reduced them and tried to stitch.. Unfortunately, I have holes due to too much ceiling with no features.. Thats ok, so I use the Papywizard with my xml code. I loaded the images with the code and all looked good to go.. I then said ok and it went straight to detect and did its thing... It created the perfect dogs dinner.. oh hum.. what am I doing soooo wrong.. I tried doing the same using the large images with no size change.. This is what I got...
Destiny..
I never do automatically detection.
your first screenshot is very familiar to me. I get those if my images without EXIF data from lens (manual lenses) and I forget to enter the EXIF data in autopano before detection or if I by error enter wrong values like instead 8mm for my samyang 8mm fisheye when the default settings of 50mm standard lens get active....
Liebe Gruesse,
Georg
PS: would be a nice feature request: if no EXIF is found before the default settings are taken to get an additional popup window which asks if default settings set are ok to proceed with...
Last edited by gkaefer (2013-01-13 01:54:34)
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It must be the heat.. killing off all the green.. 
Its 39c here.. 
I think its time to dump that test and start over... It has to be my settings or something i did..
Destiny..
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Hi.. I did it all again with new images and reloaded the xml. It was a lot better but still not right.. I know my A rail is right which is the left/right of centre setting... But I am not sure about my B rail, the jutting in/out of the lens.. I set it to the centre were it is marked.. It looks ok to me but someone else might have other ideas..
Not sure what else to try.. Perhaps I need to clear my VR Drive and start over again...
Destiny..
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Are you using the Papywizard Import filter or the Seitz VRDrive2 Import filter?
Last edited by mediavets (2013-01-13 12:47:13)
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@Andrew: Her screenshot shows papy... but maybe because she is still at 2.6 version and there is/was no VR Drive plugin...
@Destiny: you screenshot with the Nikkor 50mm f1.4D...
http://wiki.panotools.org/Entrance_Pupil_Database only the f1.8D is listed:
L1 value for your D90 = 40mm
L2 value for the f1.8D = 19mm (19mm from bajonett...)
so assuming you refer to "B" from this link http://www.nodalninja.com/support/camera-settings/42/
than for the 1.8D the "B" value is 69mm
but the 1.8D does have other values like the 1.4D:
1.4D = 43mm x 64mm x 64mm
1.8D = 39mm x 63mm x 63mm
so dont know how to adopt the "69mm" to reflect the other length value of your "43mm" long 1.4D lens
Georg
Last edited by gkaefer (2013-01-13 13:12:56)
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gkaefer wrote:
@Andrew: Her screenshot shows papy... but maybe because she is still at 2.6 version and there is/was no VR Drive plugin...
So could that contribute to the problems? (Which is why I asked the question).
It certainly used to be the case that in some aspects, bracketing for example, the XML data files created by the VRDrive2 were not Papywizard compatible/compliant.
Has that changed or is it still the case?
I presume that the XML data files created by the VRDrive 2 are not fully Papywizard compatible/compliant because if there are/were there would be no point in having a separate Import filter.
@Destiny: you screenshot with the Nikkor 50mm f1.4D...
I don't know why she showed that image because I believe the image set she has problems with was shot using a Nikkor 35mm f2D lens on her D800.
Last edited by mediavets (2013-01-13 15:34:22)
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opps.. Yes I put the wrong lens up.. I need to change that to the 35mm.. I was getting worried about the fires near here.. Its all good now.. Phew..! 
Anyway.. The position is the same as the 35mm.. I lined it up to the centre as marked...
Andrew.. that plugin you are referring to is for HDR and LDR I am sure.. It still uses the Papywized for what I am doing... I will try though.. .. to make sure..
I will do it now...
Destiny...
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Hi.. Well apg 2.6 doesn't like me but apg 3 does.. Really strange... This was a terrible venue downstairs in my dungeon since the light is blinding so lots of blue reflection.. But it should still all stitch ok.. if set right..
The Roundshot VR Drive plugin worked so I then tried the Papywizard plugin and that worked too.. However, my stitching is out a bit so it must be my lens protrusion on the B rail. I replaced the image above to my 35mm 1:2D. I lined my 0 to where I have indicated.. Not sure which way to move it..
There is no point in using others settings since the B rail is set to where the user puts it.. I guess the only other way is to take a reference from where the stop is where the camera hits, and where the B rail sits. Ironically, it works out at 35mm for that..
So, the question is.. What the hell is wrong with Papywizard in apg 2.6... I cannot use the Roundshot plugin since it doesn't have it....
Once I get it right I can try a bracketed shoot..
Destiny...
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gkaefer wrote:
so assuming you refer to "B" from this link http://www.nodalninja.com/support/camera-settings/42/
than for the 1.8D the "B" value is 69mm
I didn't find any values for the Nikon D800 with any lens on the NN settings 'database'.
How did you compute a value of 69mm?
Last edited by mediavets (2013-01-13 16:03:01)
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Hi Destiny
The nodal point of a lens normaly isn't on the front element, it is inside the Lens toward the aperture mechanism.
When the marks showed above represent where you set the NNP, I think you are to much infront of the lens.
On this side, there are several descriptions of easy methods to detect the exact NNP:
http://www.hugha.co.uk/NodalPoint/Index.htm
I like the methode with a laserpointer, because you can detect the different NNPs for different lens settings (focal distance, zoom, blending angle).
See also the values here for the Canon 35mm f2, which is near the same optical design:
http://wiki.panotools.org/Entrance_Pupil_Database
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Thank you Martin for all that.. I have a Database somewhere but my D800 with 35 1:2D both are not on the list.. When setting up the VR Drive it asked for an option to point down to set the A rail.. I am sure that is right.. Its the protrusion that is probably out.. I never really understood how to set the NNP up.. I guess if I saw it done it would be easy.. With my 10.5 fisheye, I have the protrusion set at the gold ring.. or just tab behind it, but i was surprised to read that it is dependent on the focal.. Unless I misunderstood it.. Anyway. I will play with it tomorrow.. oh. it is tomorrow.. LOL. its 1 am.. and cooooooler.. thank goodness. Its been 40c today.... ;(
Let you know how I go with new settings.....
Destiny..
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Destiny wrote:
I never really understood how to set the NNP up..
best, Klaus
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some days ago I posted a list of NPP-docs found around the web:
http://www.kolor.com/forum/p63483-2010- … -02#p63483
...I added the today (above new one fore me) and checked the existing and updated the links
many methods from above link (lumelix) can be found on other places. some like the explanation from one or the other more... so choose one of your choice...
Georg
Last edited by gkaefer (2013-01-13 17:45:38)
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Hi Georg.. As always, you seem to have heaps of good resources to help us all out..
Thank you..
Destiny...
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Hi Destiny
Using the 10,5mm fisheye, the NPP is near the front element of the lens.
You can see this on the side I have linked above.
But with wide angle or normal and tele lenses, it's different. With this lenses the NPP
is somewhat inside the lens, normally.
Your 35mm f2.0 wideangle is a very good lens to create high resolution spheres.
But in high resolution, you can see stitching errors much better than with the fisheye.
So it's important to set the NPP correctly.
Like Georg said there are a lot of other pages, where it's shown how to detect and set
the nodal point correctly. I couldn't find the settings for the 35mm in any list, so you
have to test this yourself. I know that the description in the Seitz manual isn't really clear,
but it's essential to do it exactly, the "B"-value also.
I hope, there are no more fires close to you ;-)
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Destiny wrote:
Hi Georg.. As always, you seem to have heaps of good resources to help us all out..
Thank you..
Destiny...
Destiny - use the old two-verticals-trick: place a lamp-tripod three meters in front of your camera. Put a second one about 10m in line behind the first one.
Look through the camera on your head and take care you see the two verticals close beneath each other. Use an aperture you usually use on your shooting sites.
I suggest f8.
Move the camera slowly from left to right and vice versa. Watch whether the gap between the verticals shrinks or grows. Move your camera on the rail for- or backwards on the head until the gap between the verticals doesn´t change any more. Using the live-view makes it more comfortable.
Then you have a perfectly aligned NPP.
(Don´t forget to set the lateral adjustment first, of course - that one is easily done by having the center AF-field on your groundglass perfectly on the center-screw of your head when the camera looks 90° down - but i guess you know that).
Klaus
P.S.: using a 35mm you need to align the NPP very precisely! Because when you zoom in at 100% you´ll recognize a one or two millimeter-missmatch in your alignment.
Last edited by klausesser (2013-01-14 01:14:49)
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You are my hero Georg.. I kept looking at the image you sent me.. again and again and then the penny droped.. I cannot believe I did not understand it.. But now I do.. This is the image I kept looking at.. I did acatully try this method a long time ago but it did not work, and I did not understand why. BUT.. My D90 is not true to live view preview, you have to use the view finder, however my D800 is true to live view
Destiny...
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Thank you so much Martin..
No more fires.. Very bad in some areas. Some people have been killed.. Very scary... I think Its going to rain today.. Bloody kids have been charged for starting the fires.. 
I am soon ready to begin a brand new test..
Destiny..
lumelix wrote:
Hi Destiny
Using the 10,5mm fisheye, the NPP is near the front element of the lens.
You can see this on the side I have linked above.
But with wide angle or normal and tele lenses, it's different. With this lenses the NPP
is somewhat inside the lens, normally.
Your 35mm f2.0 wideangle is a very good lens to create high resolution spheres.
But in high resolution, you can see stitching errors much better than with the fisheye.
So it's important to set the NPP correctly.
Like Georg said there are a lot of other pages, where it's shown how to detect and set
the nodal point correctly. I couldn't find the settings for the 35mm in any list, so you
have to test this yourself. I know that the description in the Seitz manual isn't really clear,
but it's essential to do it exactly, the "B"-value also.
I hope, there are no more fires close to you ;-)
Online
Destiny wrote:
I am soon ready to begin a brand new test..
Destiny..
Try starting with a 'B' - from pitch axis of rotation to tripod mount - value of about 63mm.
Last edited by mediavets (2013-01-14 10:45:02)
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Ok Andrew.. thank you for that..
Destiny...
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Ok.. apg likes me after all..
I have now set my NNP, I think perfectly but I can always play with it a bit more.. If only I had a MacPro with heaps of RAM.. I had to reduce the images size to about 20% of the actual image size and even then reduce it even more for viewing here.. The pano using 35mm would be huge with hue zooming abilities.. The 35mm is very sharp.. Its a great lens.. I would hate to think what the files size would be if I captured bracketed shots.. I can still do it but I will be at it for days and even then I would most defiantly have to reduce the image size to about 10%..
The stitching using apg 2.6 with Papywizard xml, is perfect but I have large blur area.. not sure why that is..
I then tried it using apg 3, and the stitching again is perfect but this time no blur.. Its wonderful..
The last test I used the VR Drive plugin, again perfect stitching with no blur...
I am not sure if this is normal since I have never done anything like this before.. I had to use the straightening tool since the images were very curvy, despite the fact my level bubble was perfect.. So I am not sure if I still need to do something or this is normal.. The RMS for all the images is low so thats good but it was higher until I straightened the image up... It went from about 3 RMS to about 1.6 RMS.. I just love my VR Drive II.. I could never do this without it..
Thank you all for the support and great advice.. I used your image Georg to understand it.. Its easy when you know how..
Destiny..
Last edited by Destiny (2013-01-15 06:20:23)
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Hey, I saw a video of a motorised head a few weeks ago and it had little cable clips to keep the cables grouped together better.. I was wondering if anyone knew where to get them from.. I want to minimise the cables being captured in the shots.. They looked like I could clip a few cables together, I do not even know what they are called... One of the best things I bought after viewing the VR Drive vid was the NOVOFLEX Magic Balance.. Its just GREAT!....
Destiny..
Online
I am very very happy with the sharpness of the image.... it is what I wanted from a lens to achieve a sharp image VR.. A fisheye lens is great but it cannot get as sharp at this zoom level.. the 35mm allows for much more zoom but remaining sharp... This image is at 100% zoom...
Destiny.
Online
Destiny wrote:
I have now set my NNP, I think perfectly but I can always play with it a bit more..
Was the 'B' value anywhere close to 63mm?
If only I had a MacPro with heaps of RAM.. I had to reduce the images size to about 20% of the actual image size and even then reduce it even more for viewing here.. The pano using 35mm would be huge with hue zooming abilities.. The 35mm is very sharp.. Its a great lens.. I would hate to think what the files size would be if I captured bracketed shots.. I can still do it but I will be at it for days and even then I would most defiantly have to reduce the image size to about 10%..
Destiny..
For the time being, when experimenting with shooting with 35mm lens, why not shoot at a lower res. rather than having to downsize images afterwards?
Last edited by mediavets (2013-01-15 11:05:54)
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