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| User list | Rules | You are not logged in.
Klaus,
You seem to think you know everything, but already your first assumption (me using a ballhead) is wrong. There is no point for me to continue this conversation, better things to do.
You go on doing things your way, I will do things my way. Cherio!!
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Before I try this, since I am still learning the process: If I import my fused images from Photomatix, with the xml code via Papywizard, will the xml code still work... ??
Destiny..
Online
Thats not true Leif.. Using my 50mm, it leaves gaps..
With my D90 using a 10.5 fisheye, its automatic shooting pattern is -45 +45.. Not the best..
The truth is.. It automatically creates A shooting pattern.., but the good thing is, we can create our OWN shooting pattern unlike the Panoneed where you are solely dependent on its own automatic shooting pattern with no option to edit it..
Destiny..
leifs wrote:
klausesser wrote:
What you report and what´s Leif´s issues are - i don´t know things like that.
best, KlausThe VRdrive2 makes "perfect" shootingpatterns automaticly, given camera and lens.
In some occasions this "perfect" pattern is not optimal, e.g. panos where there are a long horizon line, like at the coast.
To minimize the troubles with stitching it is wise to use a shooting pattern where the horizon is in one row only.
For panos indoors, inland, in cities etc the shooting pattern suggested by the VRdrive2 is perfect enough.
Leif
Online
Hi Andrew.. I just checked that out.. but sorry I do not understand how it works..
Destiny...
mediavets wrote:
Destiny wrote:
Since I can program in my own shooting pattern I will try again with my 50mm..
Did you try Christian's pattern generator:
http://www.kolor.com/forum/p108967-2012 … 05#p108967
Online
Destiny wrote:
Thats not true Leif.. Using my 50mm, it leaves gaps..
Gaps ? Really ? I've never seen a gap using my VRdrive2.
Are you sure you have done the DX/FX choices right ?
Leif
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Destiny wrote:
Before I try this, since I am still learning the process: If I import my fused images from Photomatix, with the xml code via Papywizard, will the xml code still work... ??
Destiny..
If your XML has data for N bracketed exposures per shooting position then no it won't work.
But you can I would think resolve that by doing a 'virtual shoot' - ie. no camera mounted - specifying a single shot per shooting position and then use that XML file with your Photomatix fused images.
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Destiny wrote:
Hi Andrew.. I just checked that out.. but sorry I do not understand how it works..
Destiny...mediavets wrote:
Destiny wrote:
Since I can program in my own shooting pattern I will try again with my 50mm..
Did you try Christian's pattern generator:
http://www.kolor.com/forum/p108967-2012 … 05#p108967
You enter the relevant data for your camera and lens and it generates a custom preset file for Papywizard, which specfies the yaw/pitch data for a shooting pattern.
Unfortunately as I understand it the VRDrive cannot utilise Papywizard-compatible custom preset files directly (nor can the Panoneed or the T&C Touch controller, even though I suspect that it would be relatively easy to add that functionality).
But I think you should be able to 'modify' those values to program your VRDrive?
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I will try again today and make sure my D800 is set for FX since the 50mm is an FX and DX lens.. The thing about the D800, it automatically detects the DX/FX lens although you can over ride it.. I will check to make sure.. I will allow the VR Drive to create its own shooting pattern.
Destiny..
leifs wrote:
Destiny wrote:
Thats not true Leif.. Using my 50mm, it leaves gaps..
Gaps ? Really ? I've never seen a gap using my VRdrive2.
Are you sure you have done the DX/FX choices right ?
Leif
Online
HansKeesom wrote:
Klaus,
You seem to think you know everything, but already your first assumption (me using a ballhead) is wrong. There is no point for me to continue this conversation, better things to do.
You go on doing things your way, I will do things my way. Cherio!!
????
Klaus
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Destiny wrote:
The truth is.. It automatically creates A shooting pattern.., but the good thing is, we can create our OWN shooting pattern unlike the Panoneed where you are solely dependent on its own automatic shooting pattern with no option to edit it..
Destiny - your making a statement about things you don´t know at all! Of course you CAN create an OWN shooting pattern with the Panoneed - and of course it´s editable and because of that of course you´re NOT "solely dependent on it´s own automatic shooting pattern with no option to edit it".
Please keep that in mind and try to avoid false statements. Meanwhile more than 300 sold handheld controllers - which base on the Panoneed controller - prove that it works absolutely fine and without any issue.
FACT is: you don´t NEED at all to make a pattern of your own - because the shooting pattern the head generates always is an optimum of a strict relation of the focal-length of the lens and the sensor-size of the body.
You definitely wouldn´t be able to do better than that. But at any time you can create different patterns if you like to do so for special occasions or when you had a bad dream . .
Klaus
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Destiny, Hans: i will get out of that - it´s becoming somewhat childish and rather senseless actually.
best, Klaus
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Actually Klaus.. Its seems I miss understood Andrew @ #59.. where I was under the impression that the Panoneed only provided for an automatic shooting pattern. Sorry I miss understood.. No childishness intended...
Destiny..
"I asked Klaus whether the Panoneed head would support the use of Papywizard custom presets, as an option. he said 'no' because it's not necessary because the Panoneed automatically calculates suitable shooting pattern for speherical poanos. I think this misses the point, and is unnecessarily prescriptive, but..."
Online
Destiny wrote:
. . whether the Panoneed head would support the use of Papywizard custom presets, as an option.
This is clearly related to PAPYWIZARD CUSTOM presets.
Klaus
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klausesser wrote:
HansKeesom wrote:
Klaus,
You seem to think you know everything, but already your first assumption (me using a ballhead) is wrong. There is no point for me to continue this conversation, better things to do.
You go on doing things your way, I will do things my way. Cherio!!????
Klaus
Klaus,
In message #75 you wrote "You need to" and made a list. I understood that list to be a description of the way I am doing photography of my panoramas.
If "You" was ment in a more general way, please let me know and accept my appologies.
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I tried with my 50mm again, this time its after 2 updates of the VR Drive software.. Its much better with no holes, but I think perhaps my NNP must be out a bit. There is no point in moving the A rail since I am using the same camera, the D800. Its the B rial that might be out.. Papywizard is amazing for featureless areas, so not sure how the Panoneed will cope with featureless areas if it doesn't use it.. Unless of course it uses something else.. I tried without Papywizard and it failed to stitch.
At least now I am not getting the holes but I did also change the default from 30% overlap to 25%. The file size was huge, I mean HUGE.. 69GIG.!!. It took a long time, about 4 hours to detect, stitch and render but it did it without locking up.. The only time I get lock-up with apg is when I try to use the HDR edit mode in V3.
Now I have tried to use Photomatix images with the Papywizard xml but it will not work as Andrew said.. So, this is the problem.. I get issues with HDR when editing it in apg, and it often locks up and I don't particularly like the end results either.. Very strange this occurs since it did not lockup when creating a 69gig pano.. This pano was a bit over 68,000 X 34,000 pixels.. Really really big.. But with many stitch small errors..
One thing is certain, using Papywizard and apg with images captured using the VR Drive is awesome.. The fact I have errors is probably my NNP..
So, if I cannot use Photomatix images, if I bracket using my 50mm, what am I to do.. So much to learn.. Question.. if I did the same using a 35mm, do I get more or less images.. Probably a stupid question for those in the know..
Destiny..
Online
Destiny wrote:
...... I get issues with HDR when editing it in apg, and it often locks up and I don't particularly like the end results either.. Very strange this occurs since it did not lockup when creating a 69gig pano.. This pano was a bit over 68,000 X 34,000 pixels.. Really really big.. But with many stitch small errors..
.................................
Destiny..
Are you using the 4 GB RAM MAC to process ?
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Yep... Its all I have.. I only let it render to see how it would cope...
Destiny..
Online
Destiny wrote:
Papywizard is amazing for featureless areas, so not sure how the Panoneed will cope with featureless areas if it doesn't use it.. Unless of course it uses something else.. I tried without Papywizard and it failed to stitch.
There's a misunderstanding here - a confusion between Papywizard-compatible XML format data files, and Paywizard XML format custom preset files.
Papywizard creates XML data files that record the shooting positions that can then be used with the Papywizard Import filter to assist APP/APG with the placement of 'featureless' images.
The Panoneed head and the T&C Touch Controller (and Seitz VRDrive) can also create such Papywizard-compatible data files. The Seitz VRDrive now has its own APP/APG Import filter
Papywizard also uses XML format files that define an abitrary series of shooting positions. These are used when shooting in Preset mode (rather than Mosaic mode) typically when shooting spherical panos where it is optimal to shoot fewer images per row as you approach the zenith and nadir. A small set of presets is built in to Papywizard but users can easily create their own custom presets and there are some third-party custom preset generators available now too to make it even easier.
The T&C Touch Controller, The Panoneed, and the Seitz VRDrive cannot utilise these Papywizard custom preset files to define shooting patterns.
Last edited by mediavets (2012-12-28 13:31:48)
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Destiny wrote:
So, if I cannot use Photomatix images, if I bracket using my 50mm, what am I to do.. So much to learn..
You can use your Photomatix images with an XML data file.
You just have to edit the XML file created when shooting bracketed exposures so that there remains just a signle yaw/pitch data value for each shooting position, or (as I suggested before) shoot a 'virtual shoot' (you don't want the images just to create the XML data file) with same parameters EXCEPT specifiying a single shot at each shooting position rather than a bracketed set of exposoures at each shooting position. Did you try it?
Open an view one of your XML files (any text editor will do) created when shooting a bracketed set of exposures at each shooting position and you'll see what I'm talking about.
Question.. if I did the same using a 35mm, do I get more or less images.. Probably a stupid question for those in the know..
Destiny..
Fewer images - the shorter the focal length the fewer images are required to cover the sphere.
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Destiny wrote:
Yep... Its all I have.. I only let it render to see how it would cope...
Destiny..
There's no doubt that if you want to explore the creation of higher res. panos shot with your D800 and longer focal length lenses you will need to invest in more powerfull computer hardware to process these panos.
4GB RAM just isn't really going to be enough for a start.
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Oh good... Thank you for letting me know that Andrew.. It will take about 2 weeks for my 35mm to arrive..
"Fewer images - the shorter the focal length the fewer images are required to cover the sphere."
Re RAM.. Yes I know Andrew.. I am finding that out now.. It almost time to buy a new Mac.. I can buy a new Mac every 4 years according to my accountant.. I am going to get at least 16 gig.. I need to look into it more.. I checked them out yesterday and was very surprised to find my Mac is a heap cheaper and much more powerful.. Just a mazing...
I am just checking out the VR Drive import for Fusion and HDR now.. It detected really quickly using the xml file... I used it for the 5 bracketed shots using my FIsheye and D800 from yesterday.. The RMS is lower too...
I am a long way off from understanding all this stuff.. But I am now making a good start.. Thank your all the explainations.. I understand most of it.. I now need to try out the Photomatix you suggested. 
i am sure I have done this since I have used the xml code from my VR Drive..
Destiny..
Online
Destiny wrote:
Papywizard is amazing for featureless areas, so not sure how the Panoneed will cope with featureless areas if it doesn't use it.. Unless of course it uses something else.. I tried without Papywizard and it failed to stitch.
Especially for you, Destiny: The XML from the Panoneed uses the PapyWizard protocol. The import into APG works very well for that reason. I didn´t have blank areas from the first prototypes on.
Destiny wrote:
Now I have tried to use Photomatix images with the Papywizard xml but it will not work as Andrew said..
At least regarding the Panoneed that´s definitely wrong. Why would that be abyway?
I can tell the Panoneed how many exposures per position i want to have recorded. Knowing i use Photomatix anyway i tell the head (resp. the controller) to write ONE exposure per position. This way i can process the shots (no matter how much i do per position) in Photomatix and APG places the processed images (one per position then)
using the xml.
But i also can tell the head/controller to record the number of exposures per position for placing the exposures as stacks in APG. This way i have a correct positioning for ALL bracketed images no matter whether i use 3/5/9/12 or whatever.
I asked Josef to implement this feature for being able to use the fusion option in APG and also use Photomatix first and having correct XML in BOTH cases.
Destiny wrote:
So, if I cannot use Photomatix images, if I bracket using my 50mm, what am I to do..
Why not ask Seitz to implement the option i described above? (given it´s not there already - which would surprise me).
Klaus
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Well Leif.. Maybe I did not do it right.. Not sure but its fine now.. I have updated the software at least 2 times since so not sure if that fixed it or it was me.
Perhaps something moved not sure... Using my 50mm, I am not entirely sure if my B rail is set right. But I am sure my A is ok..
I was thinking of starting up a data bank on Lens/Camera settings using the VR Drive II..
I will post it on the VR Drive II forum.. Probably the best place..
Destiny..
leifs wrote:
Destiny wrote:
Thats not true Leif.. Using my 50mm, it leaves gaps..
Gaps ? Really ? I've never seen a gap using my VRdrive2.
Are you sure you have done the DX/FX choices right ?
Leif
Online
Ok... I am now running a 7 bracketed test back to using the fisheye and D800. I also made a copy of the P code and changed the bracketed to 1. I will use that with the Photomatix images. I am assuming I am on the right track..
I really want to try out the HDR feature of the VR Drive but not sure if my Mac is up to it.. Some of the HDR setting are a bit confusing.. But I will get there if I just persevere with it.. We are not all born experts. Although some experts think they know it all but in fact we are all learning new things.. I have seen some people doing things for years thinking they were doing it right, only to find out that they were not.. But they thought they where experts at it.. What in fact they were was fluent at doing it wrong.. 
Destiny..
Online
Well, I tried the Papywizard dummy xml code file to use with the Photomatix images in apg but it did not work.. I am sure I have done it as Andrew suggested..
Normally when I put in my images into apg, I have to change the 15mm focal to 10.5 since I am using a 10.5 fisheye.. As a consequence of this default in apg, I think even though I say use the xml focal, it still says its a miss match.. or it might be due to missing data when using the Photomatix images.. or .. I did not do it as Andrew suggested.. 
When setting up the NNP with the VR Drive, it goes through a set of processes and one of them is the option to set the NNP where the camera moves and points down. You can use your live view to set the NNP A rail. Its perfect according to the view I can see.. When I put the images into PTGui I get 'Very Good' yet with apg I get the jutting rail which cannot be edited out with the green and red dots since the images are too big. I find that to be a bit hit and miss and strange since apg doesn't like too much overlap so its not always easy to put one image section over another.. A masking tool might fix it but if there is no image to replace the masked out area then that will not work either.. I have tried to web transfer my images to HansKeesom but its all very slow so I cancelled it.. Alex J said my NNP is out.. I don't get it.. Perhaps I need to try other software to see how that copes.. The awesome feature of apg is the import of the xml for large featureless areas.
Destiny..
Online
