Yes Marco.. I am really interested too.. Even though I only have the trial vesion of apg, it will still work as designed. I have seen it on the video and wow, it looks really cool.. But that was the expert showing how its done.. I will probaby makes a dogs dinner of it first time..

I have asked on the Roundshot forum if the Nadir adaptor is any closer to being available.. When just capturing a single shot, its easy to just take a few hand held but with 9 bracketed shots, not possible.. and yes, it would be very interesting to see how apg handles 9 bracketed nadir shots... The vid demo only used a single image.. I am not even sure if it actually does it, and if it doesn't then all the more reason to change the way apg processes bracketed shots..

Destiny..

marco.lanciani wrote:

Hans, I was asking, actually, just how the mask tool in APG works... and how the ghosting removal works... in case of HDR panos with large sets of bracketed images.
I wasn't asking features for APG, was I?

Regards,
Marco

Destiny wrote:

24 hours..!!.. Stuff that..!! Its not the actually first process that is causing my issues anyway.. It detects and stitched within 60 seconds... The The anti-ghost and blending etc however takes in excess of an hour and a half with 5 bracketed groups = (60 images).

It was when I went to Edit and tried to change my HDR Fusion settings using the Fusion tool.. It locked up on me.. Not sure if its re-blending so it might take up to 30 mins each time I make a slight adjustment.. that's no good at all. I should be able to see the pano via the preview related to the preview size of the pano I am looking at.. Not the entire pano size..!!.. The way apg is processing, I would need more RAM since its holding far too much data due to the way apg processes the HDR as whole panos rather than as bracketed stacks and then stitch them. I really do not agree with this processing option.. I would rather see apg fuse images, and then if required hold them in folders ready for stitching.. Its like having a 3 course meal in one go on the table rather than eat one course and clear the table for the next..

Oh and since its Christmas you can forgive me... Opps... I set my VR Drive rail to the wrong settings last time.. Rather than at 75, I had it set to 65. Which is why my stitching was out.. emmmm... Sorry.. but they, doesn't this say something for PTGui.. It did really well.. I got all excited about using my VR Drive after so long...

I am now capturing a new set downstairs.. I will process and see how I go before sending the image to you to play with .... ALL NIGHT...

Destiny..

If If if if it would take 24 hours it would still be fine by me, I didn't say it does take 24 hours. Don't bend my words. My point is not to sit in front of the computer waiting for a programm to finish what it doing. That is a total waiste of time. Go out and make some more pictures.

So now it turns out it is user error instead of APG's fault.  Still you blame APG, now it is using to much RAM.... come on Destiny, you can do better then this.

I will not play with it all night or day. I will let it run and do other stuff while APG it doing it's thing. Household, administration, sleep, eat, drink, meet other people, watch TV, make more panoramas, so many things to do that are more usefull then waiting for APG to finish.

Last edited by HansKeesom (2012-12-25 11:53:43)

Ok.. This time I processed the images through Photomatix using the HDR Smooth settings. This setting can look quite nice.. but perhaps not so nice in my dungeon..

As above, I again processed the images in apg 3.1 and then PTGui..

The stiching on both is excellent but depending on what Fusion/HDR setting I use, I often get the pano head jutting out in apg.. Alex J said it was my NNP out when I sent him the caravan images.. But I have tested that and as far as I can tell its perfect.., but I will test to make sure again.. I never get this issue with PTGui or single shot images using apg.. There is just something about Photomatix and apg.. 

I first processed my images in apg, and let it run.. I then put the same images in PTGui. Both software apps process quickly but even though I started PTGui secondly, it finished first.. About 15 and 20 mins respectively so not bad at all..

My RAM was ok for this processing too.. Its only when I get into the apg HDR editing that the system Activity Monitor flashes in the red.. but I must learn not to look at that and go and make a coffee, or do the ironing ect for fear of blaming my RAM as an issue for my Mac locking 

Destiny..

This is very interesting...  I set the RMS to only keep below 2.5 and also ticked Strong Algorithm. Now that jutting pano head has gone.. Just amazing.. I stuffed about with that for hours when stitching the caravans, so now I will give those a new test.. This pano test gives me a RMS of 2.09 with Photomatix images.. So, apg is beinging to like Photomatix images..

Another issue I have had with apg, and thats the shadows showing a purple huge to them.. I am not the only one with this issue since I have read others saying the same thing.. The shadows need to be blended and soften more, perhaps..

Destiny..

HansKeesom wrote:

Once you get the basic idea of red and green markers you can do so much with them....

Sure - but it´s kind of gambling sometimes. You don´t have control about anything. You set a red mark - and parts of the object remain. You set two or more marks - and parts of the object still remain.
You set green marks in the adjacent image - where the background from the image before is free from the object - and sometimes it works fine . . . but sometimes still parts of the object remain.

So you have to do it by try and error. That´s very time-consuming.

In PTGui on the other hand you have full control of where you want to cut an object out and how much of the background you want to keep. That makes working somewhat more precise.
But sometimes you have shprply cut areas where no background fills in. I´m not at all used to PTGui - but i could use the masking from scratch . . because it´s very well explained.

All in all APG does a VERY fine job! But you can´t really control what you´re working on - you need to accept what i call kind of "clandestine operations" . . . because of missing a really detailled and effective description. You get some kind of information, yes, but we still need a profound handbook which explains when, why and how to handle this application of very fast growing complexity to use it for professional/commercial work. It costs too much time endlessly experimenting with features for getting knowledge how to use them for commercial jobs with the app.

Most of the time it´s very easy and comfortable - but sometimes it takes me days to get one stitch done perfectly . . . and i doubt that´s because i´m too stupid to handle things . .

best, Klaus

klausesser wrote:

HansKeesom wrote:

Once you get the basic idea of red and green markers you can do so much with them....

Sure - but it´s kind of gambling sometimes. You don´t have control about anything. You set a red mark - and parts of the object remain. You set two or more marks - and parts of the object still remain.
You set green marks in the adjacent image - where the background from the image before is free from the object - and sometimes it works fine . . . but sometimes still parts of the object remain.

So you have to do it by try and error. That´s very time-consuming.

In PTGui on the other hand you have full control of where you want to cut an object out and how much of the background you want to keep. That makes working somewhat more precise.
But sometimes you have shprply cut areas where no background fills in. I´m not at all used to PTGui - but i could use the masking from scratch . . because it´s very well explained.

All in all APG does a VERY fine job! But you can´t really control what you´re working on - you need to accept what i call kind of "clandestine operations" . . . because of missing a really detailled and effective description. You get some kind of information, yes, but we still need a profound handbook which explains when, why and how to handle this application of very fast growing complexity to use it for professional/commercial work. It costs too much time endlessly experimenting with features for getting knowledge how to use them for commercial jobs with the app.

Most of the time it´s very easy and comfortable - but sometimes it takes me days to get one stitch done perfectly . . . and i doubt that´s because i´m too stupid to handle things . .

best, Klaus

Hi Klaus,

I don't think you are stupid. But send me the sourcefiles of a pano that took you long time to do and let me try. In case I arrive at good quality faster we can have an exchange on how and why. In case I am not faster we can find someone else who can or conclude APG really needs a different approach.

I know you got things perfect in the end, the offer was to see if the perfect result can be reached with APG in little time.

HansKeesom wrote:

. . .  the offer was to see if the perfect result can be reached with APG in little time.

Thank you, Hans! But: no way to get it done with APG in little time, believe me

Next week i can resize the images (48 pics, 6GB as TIFFs) to smaller JPGs and put them on my server for download together with the xml.

best to you, Klaus

Well, after my success with my jutting rail using lower RSM, I set it to the same using my Caravan images.. It made no difference at all so I guess Alex J also tried this. I admit there is something wrong with the imagers since the stitching is out a tab in places, but I think that was not my NNP, but rather the fact that it must have moved since its the only caravan that did it.. When putting a tripod onto a Lino floor, sometimes I might think its firm but one leg remains in a tab and as the robot move round it flicks out.. This is what might have happened but not sure..

One thing is for certain, PTGui said 'Very Good" and it stitched without the rail jutting out.. There is still a slight stitch error at the cooker which is why it makes me think the entire unit moved since its the only one that did it.. However, apg has many stitch errors even after I reduced the RMS...

apg detected, stitched and rendered fairly quickly but PTGui was insanely quick.. Two mins at the most.. All I did is import the images and run a preview, test to make sure it ok and save the pano.. No more editing at all... PTGui loves Photomatix images, it coups with them very well..

One thing is certain, the new features of apg look awesome, but if I could only get them to work on my Mac.. However, these features it seem, requires more RAM than I have on my iMac.. It only has 4 GIG but I haven't had any issues with any other software and I have it all.. From 3D Studio Max, Maya, Final Cut Pro, Shake and the entire Adobe 6 software and all of the other AutoDESK software too, none of it cause me issues with RAM.. Perhaps there is a setting with apg to fix this...

I tired very hard to use the new HDR/stacking process in apg 3.1 and using the edit tool, but until I can afford to buy a new Mac with a lot more RAM, I am not sure that I can use apg 3.1 at this time.. I did find that  after 30 seconds the processing stopped after each edit, but after a while I could not see any changes in the live view window, however, after I closed it, I could see a hug change. So does this mean there is a bug, where the it fails to generate the live view when the RAM is insufficient for its needs or is this not RAM at all but a bug. For now, I have to continue to use Photomatix and when I can I will continue to use apg 2.6. I will however, experiment with a single layer of images to work on getting familiar with the new nadir patch tool.. Now that is truly awesome when seeing it work through the video.. I only hope its as easy as it looks....

Destiny...

Hi...

I played with the editing of the Red and Green dots. In my option, since the images when using a fisheye lens are quite big, this is not working too well which is also due to the fact that apg doesn't like too much overlap.. What it really needs in my option, is an option to mask out an area where only that feature is put behind the other images.. With the Red and Green dots, it might be a matter of fix one issue only to create another issue.. I realise its meant for ghosting out features but this is what I have too, replace my tripod head for a guy on a bicycle. Even if my NNP was out on my current settings.... apg should still be able to coup with it since Alex J has said in the past that he has stitched handheld images.. That technique is a real trial and error yet it stitched the images,  so how come with my images, even if the NNP was out just a little bit that it cannot coup.... Lets face it.. I had my setting accidentally set 10mm out of correct NNP settings, yet PTGui stitched the pano without issues.. 

Destiny..

Destiny wrote:

Are you taking your ball home...

Destiny...

HansKeesom wrote:

Guys .... I wish you well!

Not sure what that expression means so I will ignore it.

The reasons to leave this discussion is my impression that some people are not here to find sollutions.

Destiny wrote:

Is this the 35mm you are using.. http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/7 … _1_4G.html
if so, how many images does it take to capture a full sphere. I thought you were using the 85mm...
I want to try something other than a fisheye to capture HDR bracketed panos...

No need at all for f1,4 with spheres . . . So better take a cheaper lens.

I use a manual 35mm Nikon lens as a standard. It is small and very sharp. I usually use it @f5,6, 8 or 11 - depends on what i need as DOF.
On my 5D2 it gives me 48 shots resulting in about 700mpx. I generally shoot RAW.

I use a fisheye (Canon 2,8/15mm) only when i need to be very quick and/or or shoot in crowded places. With that lens it takes me 6 shots in about 30-40 seconds (depends on exposure-time of course) to do a full sphere using the Panoneed-head.
The mounting gives me such a small Nadir-hole that in 99% i can close it in Photoshop. In other situations (the remaining 1%) i tilt the head @90° on my Arca-Swiss ballhead and shoot an extra Nadir image - but that´s very rarely needed as said.

The 85mm i use when rather deep zooming is needed indoors (in most cases you need to use focus-stacking indoors). It takes 148 shots @25% overlap or 144 shots @20% overlap. For outdoors i´m actually adapting to the 5D2 a 150mm Zeiss Sonnar from my Hasselblad using a Kipon adapter ring. That´s a very fine lens - very sharp, very fine bokeh . . . and definitely no vignetting at all on FX . . .

here´s a layout-tour (don´t link it outside this forum please - 1. it´s not finished, just a layout and 2. for legal reasons) using the 35mm for the spheres and the 85mm for two close-ups of paintings (green dots): http://360impressions.de/MKPTour/

Klaus

Last edited by klausesser (2012-12-26 15:08:34)